Call Out: PsychOUT: A Conference for Organizing Resistance Against Psychiatry

I could live with imminent danger as a standard but "imminent danger" means different things to different people.  In BC, the standard is as low as being "capable of mental or physical deterioration" which, handily, includes anybody you want to include.  We can thank the fascists at the BC Schizophrenic Society for this Brave New World.

We have Review Panels here but you have to wait 30 days for them.  Thirty days of unwanted treatment is an awfully long time.  A reliable source tell me that involuntary patients win these 25% of the time.  I, myself, win them closer to about 1/2 the time.  Still, they are heavily staggered against the patient.  Patients have an advocate but not necessarily a lawyer provided except in certain circumstances. 

"Self-injurious behaviour" -- does that include smoking and/or overeating?  If not, why not?  Why is it only the "sane" who are allowed to make bad decisions?  My sister died of obesity-related disease.  Where was the law to protect her from herself?

In my experience, patients and their families don't share the same goals.  Families tend to want their loonies drugged and they're very uncomfortable with the bald facts regarding psychological reasons for mental illness.  The biochemical theory satisfies them.

"Rude behaviour" is cast as borderline personality disorder if that's how the treating psychiatrist sees it.  The road is much tougher when the psychiatrist dislikes his (and it usually is "his") patient.  I've been cast as "bipolar," "schizoaffective" and "borderline."  I'm flattered, really.

Awesome idea, Remind.

I read in a marriage advice column that an effective way to keep your own space intact is for both people to have a shirt or a hat that they can occasionally wear which says "I love you but I am having some difficulty and need to be on my own and have that need respected."  That seems infinitely more productive than what I used to do was just to get pissed out of my gourd by 11:00 in the morning.  Nothing says "stay away" like a snarling drunk. 

G. Pie, I want to thank you for sharing what you've been experiencing over the past couple wks - few people would bare their souls as you have.  You may have helped some people.

Happy New Year.

Borderline personality disorder is synonymous with "difficult person".  Not that I would dismiss it as a valid disorder, but I'm pretty sure it's applied to people almost indiscriminately who are "difficult", ie. rude and obnoxious.  Not that I'm all that keen on dealing with rude and obnoxious people, but sometimes that's the only appropriate response to an insane and violent world.

I was once sent to see a psychiatrist when I was clinically depressed, and confessed to him that I had this ball of anger deep down that I didn't know how to process.  He put me on an anti-psychotic drug that, being completely unecessary, fucked me up but good.  It struck me that it was way too easy to take a fragile person and send them over the edge into madness by drugging them unnecessarily.

I've nothing against the careful and judicious administration of prescription drugs and therapy to help a damaged person, but some of these guys are walking prescription pads who don't see the ramifications of handing out certain drugs to people who are in a delicate state of mind.  Like giving a hand grenade to a toddler, you shouldn't allow neurotic self-serving fools the ability to dispense drugs and advice to the vulnerable.

Hear it from a real doctor.   

This is Oliver Sacks, Anthropologist on Mars, page 64, footnote 10:

"The huge scandal of leucotomy and lobotomy came to an end in the early fifties, not because of any medical reservation or revulsion, but because a new tool - tranquillizers - had now become available, which purported (as had psychosurgery itself) to be wholly therapeutic and without adverse effects.  Whether there is that much difference, neurologically or ethically, between psychosurgery and tranquillizers is an uncomfortable question that has never been really faced.  Certainly the tranquillizers, if given in massive doses, may, like surgery, induce "tranquillity," may still the hallucinations and delusions of the psychotic, but the stillness they induce may be like the stillness of death - and, by a cruel paradox, deprive patients of the natural resolution that may sometimes occur with psychoses and instead immure them in a lifelong, drug-caused illness."

Borderline is a challenging topic, definately. As with any of the axis two diagnosis, not being able to fall back on a medical model leads to some huge challenges with self acceptance, self disclosure, self identity. It is so rare to meet a person who openly discloses a dx of borderline personality disorder. heh, just today I had a person tell me she 'was borderline schizophrenic So while these people may have a very challenging time, where does rude and obniquous come in?

I find it facinating that terms including 'stubborn, rude, obnixious' are recurring in this thread in relation to peoples experiences with the MH system. I can't even think of a client who said that, or whom other people said about the client. Sure there is talk of 'working within a seeking safety paradigm' or 'recovery model' or 'principles of psycho-social rehabilitation.' But on a larger level the descriptions people have provided, in this case of a system in B.C., are words I never hear.

My point is obnoxious is not really an SMI: I wonder how much of the affirmentioned experiences are more artifacts of bad program design, and sadly because they occured in a mental health program, were attributed to characteristics of the clients instead.

"Aduie" then, Linger.  I will miss your informative knowledge.

Linger, surely you understand that the "borderline" in "borderline schizophrenic" is not the same as the "borderline" in "borderline personality disorder"?  Surely.

I appreciate the insight displayed in your last paragraph.  I'm glad we can agree that obnoxious, snippy, sarcastic et al are "not really" symptoms of mental illness.  I'm sorry I was so hard on you before.

National Post does a Hatchet Job on Psychout conference. There was actually three pages in the print version. This article has more quotes from the dubious Edwin Shorter than it does from anyone involved with the conference. Typically sensational and biased reporting...nothing new there.

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=3001214

I am a psychiatric survivor.  I would like to share with you a new alternative that I'm sure none of you have ever heard about. 

First of all, I am VERY ANTI:

1. Drugs

2. ECT.

3. Restraints of any kind.

4. Psychiatrists, and counsellors for that matter.

I cured myself of schizophrenia all by myself using what is called, "Orthomolecular Medicine."  It was started in Weyburn Saskatchewan 65 years ago.  The only big name celebrity who was cured of "mental illness"  using orthomolecular medicine was Canadian born actress, Margot Kidder. 

She has stated repeatedly that as an actress, she had "access to all the best psychiatrists that Beverley Hills had to offer, but the only doctor who could cure me of my manic depression was Dr. Abram Hoffer from Victoria B.C."

During the 1930s, the conditions at the Weyburn Mental Institution was rated the third worst in the western hemisphere ahead of only Jamaica and Dutch Guyana.

When Tommy Douglas came to power in 1944, he wanted to change all that.   He wanted to discover a cure for addictions and a cure for schziophrenia and mental illness. He commissioned the only medical study of its kind ever. 

According to Dr. Abram Hoffer's book, Vitamin B3 and Schizophrenia: Discovery, Recovery, Controversy,..

A group of medical researchers from England came to Saskatchewan to take part in this study.  They wanted to know if there was anything that was naturally produced in the human body that had the same or a very similar molecular structure to LSD-25 which was just isolated in Switzerland in 1938, and to mesceline, which were two hallucinogenic drugs.

They discovered that adreneline, which is produced when mammals are under stress, if it oxidizes, will form another drug called adrenochrome, which is a hallucinogenic drug.  This compound is highly unstable, and in normal people, mixes with another compound produced in the body to produce 5,6, di-hydroxy-N-Methyl-Indole.  This compound has a calming effect.  In schizophrenics, they do not produce this calming effect.  Instead, they produce adrenolutin, which causes paranoia, anger, and agitation.

Dr. Abram Hoffer and his colleagues found that by giving patients high doses of vitamin C and high doses of Niacin or vitamin B3, they could combat this negative chemical reaction from taking place.  Some schizophrenics responded, but not all did.

dr. Abram Hoffer also discovered a pyrrole in the urine of some of these schizophrenics, and when given zinc along with vitamin C, they recovered very quickly.

These researchers also found that these vitamins in really high doses where able to get people off their drug and alcohol addictions.  Bill W, the founder of Alcoholics Anonymous, came up to Weyburn and participated in these studies. 

He told Dr. Hoffer that "if it weren't for these vitamins, that he would never have been able to recover from alcohol."  He tried to get vitamins incorporated as part of the AA recovery program, and the American Medical Association said NO.

The problem was that vitamins cannot be patented.  Drug companies would not make money, and the doctors would not make money in kick backs themselves.  Also, according to Hoffer, anyone can purchase these products themselves. They do not need a prescription from a doctor to get them.

In other words, huge egos, and corporate greed has kept people from living proper lives simply because doctors want to have power and control over the bodies of their patients.  Psychiatrists would rather have people perpetually dependent on them rather than let them be well.

In Toronto, on 14 Florence Ave., there is the Canadian Schizophrenia Foundation.  they have all kinds of literature on orthomolecular medicine there.  It is also called the Canadian Centre for Orthomolecular Research.

For those interested, I strongly recommend people to check it out.

Orthomolecular medicine debunked:

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/ortho.html

Here's an interesting article on Dr. Abram Hoffer, the originator of the pyroluria hypothesis and advocate for vitamin treatment of schizophrenia.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/pyroluria-and-orthomolecul...

No one has ever been harmed for using orthomolecular medicine.

This is not true.  Dr. Hoffer has written a book called Vitamin C and Cancer: Discovery, Recovery, Controversy.

In this book, and from his own personal experience as being a medical doctor in practice for over 65 years, people taking radiation and chemo have much fewer side effects from their treatments if they are on very high doses of vitamins and minerals.  They respond faster, and heal faster than those who are not on these treatments.

There are two fatalaties from taking vitamins and minerals a year in North America.  There are 165,000 fatalities from taking prescribed medications in their proper dosages each year in the United States alone, and that is with taking the proper dosage.

Vitamins and minerals lower the risk of heart disease and cancer.  It is a deficiency in vitamins and minerals which cause heart disease and cancer, which can be corrected when they are prescribed vitamins and minerals at their body's proper levels.

Vitamin D is very safe.  These symptoms occur when one takes too much Vitamin D2, and not vitamin D3.  People get vitamin D3 when they shop for vitamins at the store, so they are safe.

Some people have managed to take as much as 150,000 IU's of Vitamin A every day for many months without any side effects. Mainstream medicine's concerns are oh so spurious indeed.

Vitamin B6 is very safe in levels up to 2,000 mg per day. 

AND PHYSICIANS ARE NOT KNOWLEDGEABLE.  THEY HAVE HAD 1 HOUR OF TRAINING PERTAINING TO VITAMINS AND NUTRITION.  THAT IS NOT KNOWLEGE NOR IS IT EXPERTISE.  THEY DON'T KNOW.  THEY DON'T CARE.  THEY ARE NOT TRAINED TO GIVE PROPER ADVICE BECAUSE WHAT LITTLE THEY DO KNOW IS UNSUBSTANTIATED CRAP.

ALL Repeat studies reporting positive benefits of vitamins in any area of health have all been sabotaged to fail.  For instance, if a team of researchers study the effects of taking vitamin C 1000 mg per day for six months, and find that taking vitamin C reduces the incidence of colds by up to 50%, the repeat study will use 10 mg of vitamin C for 3 weeks, and then proclaim that the findings were false and unconfirmed.

People don't know because the doctors themselves don't know. Because the CMA and the AMA with the backing of the drug companies do not want people to know that they have safer, cheaper, and more effective alternatives than their drugs which they peddle to the public, drugs which are indeed TOXIC.

Hoffer only did observational studies.  His work failed in replication - in other words, other researchers, as part of the scientific method, have done the same experiments and consistently did not get his results.  Nice theory, but it didn't pan out, just like thousands of other theories.  Just because he wrote a book doesn't mean he was right.  Hell, every crank out there is writing a book full of assertions and beliefs that don't add up when subjected to review and meta-analysis (when they have a basis in fact at all). 

Have you got a link to the number of fatalities?  An official one, that is, not some crank pulling it out of his ass. 

Vitamins and mineral supplements have been shown not to have an effect on cancers.  Did you not see the link to cancer.org?  Did you actually read it?  Vitamin A can cause blindness in extreme doses.  I don't think that's a trivial problem, although perhaps you do.  I couldn't say.

Physicians' expertise where vitamin supplements are concerned will vary with discipline and specialty, however, I would like to see some confirmation that they get one hour in 8 years of training.  Do you have a link?  Some knowledge of curriculum?  Again, it would be nice to see something some quack didn't claim in order to fleece you on his remedies.

And of course we have the inevitable conspiracy.  Good grief.  Well, that one I can't help you with - other than to point out that a conspiracy so deep and wide would require more buy-in and total secrecy than any conspiracy we have yet to see.  Got some evidence?  If all you've got are people with egos so big that they can't address criticism with results instead of allegations, you haven't got much.

Sadly, when there are way too many fools out there dismissing vitamin treatments as conspiracy theories and other drivel, and so few people actually using vitamins and nutrition as their main line of treatment, all one is limited to is anecdotes. I have videos of medical doctors describing the amount of training they had in vitamins and nutrition when they were in medical school. I cannot link you to one, sorry.

These are not ego quacks. They don't look nor act like ego quacks.  They would not have their reputations tarnished and be  labelled as such by their peers if they didn't know that they were doing the right thing.  On the contrary, I would call people who insist on peddling dangerous toxic drugs as being ego quacks.

Dr. Hyla Cass, a professor of Psychiatry at Berkeley once said, "of every 100 students who graduate from Psychiatry, only 3 are able to figure out that their drugs are not working and that they need to look elsewhere for remedies and solutions. They believe that what they learn in school, that the drugs they are taught to administer, is accurate and true." Only 3 percent of psychiatrists learn to think outside the box.

As for vitamin A and blindness.  Vitamin A is used to treat night blindness.  People who go blind, but happen at the same time to have taken vitamin A, to an uneducated quack ie. an M.D., they would attribute the blindness to the consumption of the vitamin A.  I can see it happening, but vitamin A does not cause blindness in any of my readings.  A deficiency of vitamin A causes night blindness. 

And, according to Dr. Carl Pfeiffer, with prudential administration of vitamin A, it would be very hard to overdose on vitamin A.  Acute hypervitaminosis A has been reported in some adults.  It is caharacterized by spontaneous onset and remisision and may occur in an othewise normal individual who has consumbed a large dose of vitamin A over a short period of time.  He reports overdose symptoms as peeling of skin, red gums, nausea, vomiting, headaches, vertigo, irritability, drowsiness, seizures and eventually coma.  this is very rare, and would take very huge dosages to achieve these results.