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Is it time for another "Slave Revolt" in Haiti?

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Bacchus
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Joined: Dec 8 2003

*sigh* I dislike finding myself defending the US or Canada but I suspectr they sent Destroyers because they tend to be the fastest vessels they have. Carriers are quite slow, as are most cargo ships in fact. And Army cargo planes fit more stuff and are designed for the packaged supplies that the DART teams and the like already had packaged and ready to ship.

 

And where is the rich Dominican Republic with their aid? Being right next door and everything? And exactly how much weapons are these 10k bringing with them? A side arm for personal protection sure, but how much other stuff are they bringing to terrorize people with?


NDPP
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Joined: Dec 28 2008

Haiti: US Troops Deployed as Popular Anger Mounts

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/jan2010/hait-j16.shtml

"The first contingents of a US military force expected to reach 10,000 troops arrived in Haiti as anger mounted over the failure of international aid to reach the millions left injured, homeless and destitute by Tuesday's earthquake.

There were reports of looting and Port-au-Prince residents creating street barricades with the bodies of the dead to protest the lack of assistance.

Correspondents in the Haitian capital Friday reported little if any sign that aid had reached the population..."


A_J
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Joined: Aug 12 2008

WFPD wrote:
No, it is expected that relief would be forthcoming immediately from Haitian search and rescue teams. The fact there are no Haitian search and rescue teams is the real issue here, because it begs the question: why are there no Haitian search and rescue teams? The answer of course is obvious.

Haiti had been receiving funds to improve disaster management and apparently had been showing signs of significant improvement responding to hurricanes.

Haiti: Restoring Hope, Delivering Credibility (PDF) wrote:
Disaster mitigation. A LICUS grant financed emergency reconstruction in the Fonds Verrettes area, affected by floods in 2004. An ongoing US$19 million Emergency Recovery and Disaster Management Project aims to support the rehabilitation of areas affected by recent disasters and strengthen the country’s capacity to manage disaster risks and respond to emergencies at the national and community levels. The project has supported capacity enhancement by reviving communal civil protection committees and strengthening the Civil Protection Directorate (DPC). The DPC’s augmented disaster-management capabilities were demonstrated in its response, particularly in terms of early warning and evacuation, to the severe storms of 2007 and 2008. A further US$20 million project, approved in November 2008, is rebuilding key bridges and further strengthening the disaster management system.

My guess, this was a huge earthquake that overwhelmed anything they had in place.

WFPD wrote:
The Haitian government has no capacity because it does not effectively tax the foreign investors and domestic elites who profit from (and promote) Haiti's economic and political underdevelopment.

The data I posted up-thread indicates that government revenues, and government spending, have been steadily increasing.

Merowe wrote:
Same goes for the ridiculous C-17s. You could lease a commercial cargo 747 with a phone call, but you'd lose the PR opportunity to showcase 'Canadian' military capability.

The C-17 is designed to unload its cargo rapidly (as in a matter of minutes) and operate from rougher runways, both of which are important considering the state the airport is in.  A 747 can't.

Bacchus wrote:
*sigh* I dislike finding myself defending the US or Canada but I suspectr they sent Destroyers because they tend to be the fastest vessels they have. Carriers are quite slow, as are most cargo ships in fact. And Army cargo planes fit more stuff and are designed for the packaged supplies that the DART teams and the like already had packaged and ready to ship.

Venezuela is also sending its aid on military aircraft, so I guess if Hugo Chavez thinks it's okay, it must be.


NorthReport
Online
Joined: Jul 6 2008

Good ole USA. 

Don't give Haitians a penny, says rightwing US shock jock

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/15/haitians-donations-radio-rush-limbaugh


E.Tamaran
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Joined: Oct 17 2009

NorthReport wrote:

Good ole USA. 

Don't give Haitians a penny, says rightwing US shock jock

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/15/haitians-donations-radio-rush-limbaugh

 

From the same article:

Crass remarks were not restricted to rightwing Americans. A senior Haitian diplomat was caught on camera claiming the earthquake would be good for his country and appearing to blame the catastrophe on "witchcraft".

Speaking before an interview on Brazilian TV, Haiti's consul in São Paulo, George Samuel Antoine, said: "This catastrophe is good for us here, it will make us known."


safar
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Joined: Jan 12 2010

Where is the help from Canada? Howcome Canadian troops are just on stand by and a small DART team is just studying the feasibility?

Israel team is the first one to set up operation facilities.

Where is Canada?


nussy
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Joined: Feb 9 2005

Canadians have been flying in and out of Haiti carrying food, water, medical supplies and medical people.

Canada was one of the first to help including a Dart team. There is no place for more planes to land and the harbour is full. You just dont show up. Canadians were there the next morning. Check your facts.


NDPP
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Joined: Dec 28 2008

Canada-Haiti: Relief Efforts in the Shadow of Past 'Help'

http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/23642

"Over the course of the past decades, Canada's leading officials and most prestigious commentators have learned how to approach Haiti in the spirit of cynical power politics and racist condescension (or worse) while maintaining a posture of national self-flattery...

In previous years, such benevolent rhetoric has been to Western policy in Haiti what anti-terrorist slogans have been to Western policy in the Middle East.

But established patterns of 'Help' for Haiti need to be creative if the destructive impact of this catastrophe is to be somehow limited.."

The Big One Devastates Haiti

http://www.sjlendman.blogspot.com/2010/01/big-one-devastates-haiti.html

"In a prepared statement, President Obama promised 'unwavering support' but expect little for poor Haitians.

Militarizing the city with US Marines and other forces come next to protect the privileged, prevent looting and restrain Haitians once they realize America won't help and has no concern for their welfare. Why now if never before?


SparkyOne
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Joined: Jul 24 2009

E.Tamaran wrote:

Merowe wrote:

hm, really? You have some evidence of this?

Twitter chatter saying that the pigs were milling around the police HQ and not helping the people.

 

Your're really something else. I fucking hope the next time you need the police they are no where to be found. You really sound like a 15 year old kid who got their pee pee slapped for skateboarding somewhere you shouldn't have been.

 

Canada had a plane in the air bound for haiti in under 24 hours. Someone needs to check their facts


E.Tamaran
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Joined: Oct 17 2009

SparkyOne wrote:

E.Tamaran wrote:

Merowe wrote:

hm, really? You have some evidence of this?

Twitter chatter saying that the pigs were milling around the police HQ and not helping the people.

 

Your're really something else. I fucking hope the next time you need the police they are no where to be found. You really sound like a 15 year old kid who got their pee pee slapped for skateboarding somewhere you shouldn't have been.

 

WTF is ur prob? Upset that I called your precious police officers pigs? Get hasseled enough times by the pigs and you'll be calling them pigs to.


East613Est
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Joined: Aug 11 2009

Merowe et al,

This thread is emblematic of everything that's wrong with the contemporary left in Canada. The C-17 is a cargo aircraft for God's sake, and arguably the best in the world. Even as a staunch critic of the Tories, it may represent the best, most versatile defence procurement in the last 25 years. It can be applied in military, civilian, and humanitarian capacity. Contrast the speed with which Canada responded to this crisis with the cluster-fuck that was our tsunami response 2004, when we had to wait for rented Ukranian Antonovs to become available

Seriously, these people are suffering immeasurably and the military is better equipped, positioned, and qualified to respond to immediate human need than any other institution in Canada or the US. There are lives at stake and this type of arm-chair moralizing is imbecillic at best, deadly at worst.

The present situation in Haiti is dire in the extreme. I would argue operations like this today constitute one of the major reasons we have a military at all. Sure preferable to what's going on in Afghanistan.

Not trying to be rude, man, but many of my fellow left leaning progressives need to grow up and stop discerning imperlialis ctoups where most see only a highly fractious, high stakes, and massive coordinated international effort to get aid to an impoverished nation that has literally been decimated by a horrendous disaster.  Notwithstanding 2004's legitimate questions, this particular Haitian disaster was not made in the USA, but beneath the Carribean region's techtonic plates.

Quit the politics. Also, pictures of troops saving children from death and depravity aren't sexy, they're just pictures of our men and women in uniform doing some tangible good in the world.

This stupid diversionary bullshit is why no one takes us seriously on foreign policy and views the prospect of the left ever conducting Canadian diplomacy as a joke, disaster or worse. I likely agree with you on many issues, but it's true. This thread is a waste of time, space, and most of all credibility.

If I wasn't so frustrated, and didn't have so many Haitian friends whose families still depend on those CF personnel to potentially (literally) save their lives, I wouldn't have wasted the time to even write this. Let's move past this tripe as a movement and get serious about building the credibility to one day pursue and implement the kind of progressive diplomacy we want to see in the world.

Night.

 

 

 

 


NDPP
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Joined: Dec 28 2008

Too Little Too Late

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/01/16-0

"Wake Up World!"


Frustrated Mess
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Joined: Feb 23 2005

About 10 US helicopters flew over Port-au-Prince on Sunday, landing in open spaces to throw out boxes of water-bottles and MRE (Meals Ready to Eat) military rations. Most Haitians appeared clueless about what to do with the MREs, witnesses said.

http://tvnz.co.nz/world-news/haiti-despair-turns-anarchy-3331085


Frustrated Mess
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Joined: Feb 23 2005

Dear Pat Robertson, I know that you know that all press is good press, so I appreciate the shout-out. And you make God look like a big mean bully who kicks people when they are down, so I'm all over that action. But when you say that Haiti has made a pact with me, it is totally humiliating. I may be evil incarnate, but I'm no welcher.

Satan


Michelle
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Joined: May 10 2001

Ha!  That's hilarious.  There's one letter to the editor that will likely go super viral. :)


NorthReport
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Joined: Jul 6 2008

Don't you just love these folks who think they have all the answers.


Actually out military should stay away from situations like this. A much better approach if there is to be any military sent at all to foreign soil, is that it should be done through the UN. I'm sure Canadians in a similar situation when the big one hits on our left coast would just love to have foreign troops on our soil.

One thing that is needed though is to have Canada's organized labourers, the people who actually work on demolition projects for a living, and who have the expertise to work in these kind of situations, immediately sent there by our federal government when disaster strikes like it has in Haiti.  But no, they have to send the friggin' police. Give me a break.   

 

East613Est wrote:

 

Seriously, these people are suffering immeasurably and the military is better equipped, positioned, and qualified to respond to immediate human need than any other institution in Canada or the US. There are lives at stake and this type of arm-chair moralizing is imbecillic at best, deadly at worst.

 

 

 


Frustrated Mess
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Joined: Feb 23 2005

Quote:
Le Bret said that the Port-au-Prince airport has become "not an airport for the international community. It is an annex of Washington."

Frictions between nations rise over struggle of getting aid to Haiti

Frustrated Mess
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Joined: Feb 23 2005

Left Turn
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Joined: Mar 28 2005

Discovered by Columbus, built by France - and wrecked by dictators

Quote:
It might, and ought, to have been quite different. Together with the neighbouring Dominican Republic, Haiti constitutes the island of Hispaniola discovered by Christopher Columbus in 1492. During the 18th Century, the island, divided between the Spanish and French, was a major source of the world's sugar, but conditions for the slaves, who were imported from Africa, were utterly brutal. A series of uprisings culminated in 1804 with the declaration of independence by Jean-Jacques Dessalines, a leader of the rebellion who, went on to become Haiti's first president.

The action was revolutionary. At that moment, Haiti became the first independent nation in Latin America, the first post-colonial black country anywhere in the world, and the only nation whose citizens were overwhelmingly former slaves.

In his history of the country, Avengers of the New World: The Story of the Haitian Revolution, Laurent Dubois writes: "[The revolution was] a dramatic challenge to the world as it then was."

Yet even at its birth, the seeds of hardship that would hold back and even cripple the country were being sown. As Bill Quigley, a veteran US-based Haiti democracy activist, recalled this week, the first response by France to its former colony was to enact a military blockade and force the new Haitian authorities to pay reparations - 150 million francs - in exchange for its freedom. From the start, Haiti was bankrupted. Up to 80 per cent of the country's budget went to pay off this debt. The US, which had secured its own independence in 1776, refused to recognise it [and actually invaded and occupied Haiti between 1915 and 1934.]

 


NDPP
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Joined: Dec 28 2008

Who Will Lead Security?

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/americas/2010/01/16/who-will-lead-haitis-secu...

"Nelson Jobim, Brazil's Defence Minister just came back from Haiti and made a point of saying that Brazil would not voluntarily relinquish any of its [UN] command duties.

Essentially, what he was saying was that Brazil, not the Pentagon would continue to lead the UN forces.

There could be a brewing operational command power struggle.."


NDPP
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Joined: Dec 28 2008

The Right Testicle of Hell: History of a Haitian Holocaust

http://www.gregpalast.com/the-right-testicle-of-hell-history-of-a-haitia...

"200,000 Haitians have been slaughtered by slum housing and IMF 'austerity' plans"


WFPD
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Joined: Jan 8 2010

This is the kind of second "Slave Revolt" I was thinking of when I started this thread. From the above article:

"Haiti's former president, a man twice forced into exile but whose name has long been whispered like a prayer among the country's poorest citizens, is again trying to make his mark on his country.

Jean-Bertrand Aristide, ousted by coups that received backing from the US, said he was ready to return to Haiti from South Africa in a jet filled with emergency supplies. "We feel deeply that we should be there, in Haiti, with them, trying our best to prevent death," Mr Aristide told reporters in Johannesburg."

Aristide needs to return to Haiti immediately and begin anew the transformative process that he has twice attempted. With the state in it's present condition, I doubt that the US, French and Canadian powers would dare to escort him out once again, or provide cover for his enemies.  



A_J
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Joined: Aug 12 2008

NorthReport wrote:
One thing that is needed though is to have Canada's organized labourers, the people who actually work on demolition projects for a living, and who have the expertise to work in these kind of situations, immediately sent there by our federal government when disaster strikes like it has in Haiti.

What if they don't want to go?  Do you just go from construction site to construction site with a press gang and round-up "recruits"?

That's the beauty of the military and the police - the government can tell them what to do.


kropotkin1951
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Joined: Jun 6 2002

THe search and rescue squad in Vancouver has been told to stand down even thought they have been ready and waiting to go for days.  I heard Mackay on the radio saying we were sending troops to hand out supplies and provide security.

 I wonder from the above whose command structure the Canadian forces are under.  Laughing  I am sure since this a humanitarian effort they will be under the Brazilian UN forces command right .  Wink

 

It was nice of Harpo to wait for his orders from the Commander in Chief.


thorin_bane
Online
Joined: Jun 19 2004

So you assume that no one would help if they were given the federal OK to do so. IE not losing their job back home for time away and gettin a lift ticket there?
Yes the non civilians who do boot kicking instead of brick laying. Surely ordering COMBAT soldiers to a disaster will fix everything. It should be the engineering corp if anything, not ground pounders.

Great logic there AJ


WFPD
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Joined: Jan 8 2010

11,000 more US and Canadian troops to Haiti. What are they really going there to do?

I am going to be watching carefully to see what exactly they do once they are there. I don't understand why the "International Community" needs so many troops just to hand out supplies. It seems to me that they could hand them over to Haitians who can then redistribute them. Do they require 11,000 troops simply to unload food and water at the airport? Haitians can do this, can't they? After the initial 72 hour period most of the trapped survivors are dead anyway, and it will take time to get all those troops over there. It is now a recovery operation. Do they really need Canadian and American troops to recover bodies and rebuild destroyed infrastructure days and weeks after the earthquake? Why not mobilize Haitians to do that work?

I suspect that the real concern is for "disorder" in the aftermath of the calamity. The Haitian people might just decide to take matters into their own hands, and that cannot be allowed to happen...


SparkyOne
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Joined: Jul 24 2009

Are looters a problem?  Are the Haitian police and army able to provide security?  I don't know why they need 11'000 soldiers.


WFPD
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Joined: Jan 8 2010

Read the comments to the Globe and Mail story about Aristide's contemplated return. 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/aristide-says-he-want-to-return/article1431939/

 

"...nothing short of a Marshall plan is needed. Change it to multi party democratic consumer driven market capitalism and in a generation Haiti will be a country well on its way to peace and prosperity..." 

The same author states:

 "We hear nothing of the islamic countries. What is Iran doing? Nothing. That is a clear demonstration of the benefits of islam. The criminal occupying the presidency of Venezuela is doing nothing."

What the fuck? 


SparkyOne
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Joined: Jul 24 2009

E.Tamaran wrote:

WTF is ur prob? Upset that I called your precious police officers pigs? Get hasseled enough times by the pigs and you'll be calling them pigs to.

People like you just make it worse.


E.Tamaran
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Joined: Oct 17 2009

SparkyOne wrote:

E.Tamaran wrote:

WTF is ur prob? Upset that I called your precious police officers pigs? Get hasseled enough times by the pigs and you'll be calling them pigs to.

People like you just make it worse.

You'd do well on a pro-pig site like free dominion.

 


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