babble is rabble.ca's discussion board but it's much more than that: it's an online community for folks who just won't shut up. It's a place to tell each other — and the world — what's up with our work and campaigns.
Make this place more welcoming to Women and POC
January 30, 2010 - 9:12pm
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For some reason, comparent to their reflective population, Women and POC are absent from babble, which is ostensibly canadian. I reckon as a white male of privilege, there's a reason I'm not getting. As a white male of privilege, I ask that we reeamine why that is?
I'm able to post here comfortably and I'm a white raving lunatic. Can't blame rabble too because they try to bring issues to light.
babble is becoming a cesspool.
Food for thought.
Stopping the constant attacks on FN way of life would be a nice place to start. Calling traditional hunting methods "inhumane' is way over the top. It's racist but the moderators allow it.
Agreed E. Tamaran and I feel foolish for not mentioning FN. Bah, this non-editing the first post is frustrating.
babble, you can do better, YES?
RP, it is never ever privileged white males fault no matter what....and they stick together on this, along with their wannabees. Women, and indeed POC are to blame, aka scapegoats covering the actions of those who think they are others "betters".
For example, remember last week when I noted my partner got blocked in as if there was some big take down going down, handcuffed and thrown around, allegedly because he smelled like pot in the grocery store and that the RCMP said a woman reported him....well it turns out it was a male off duty RCMP officer in the grocery store whom my partner stepped in front of, to get around his blocking the isle and the piss ant RCMP outside blamed it on a "woman" doing the phoney reporting...
So....we have a POC getting publically harassed, embarrassed and stepped on, at the least, and a "unknown" woman falsely blamed for it....silencing and marginalizing of the oppressed along with divide and conquer at work. It has worked like this for a couple of thousand years of colonial rule...and they do not want to change anytime soon, and they won't, as long as the tried and true technique continues to work.
Then in Vancouver day before yesterday, we have a middle aged woman in a rush to get a birthday present from her daughter, who apparently/allegedly went through a seat belt check point that she did not see, who parked in the mall and was hurrying to go in... when the RCMP tackled her from behind, throwing her to the ground, banged her head off of the pavement and handcuffed her, and then took her in.
She is now charged with assaulting a police officer, and numerous other offenses, meanwhile she did not assault any officer, and apparently does not believe there was even a seat belt check point that she went through.
These unjust and attacking actions have a compounding effect on women and POC, who have not even experienced such, as privileged white males well know. it keeps us in "our place", and they like to remind us of this power every so often.
Thanks remind, I'm trying to figure out why it must be so.
I've been confronting my friends with not much luck.
Me too.
I don't see it. But, then again, I'm white.
When I joined here and pointed out the apparent nasty miscreants I was told off/dumped on and all but spat at.
RevolutionPlease. I think it was great of you to start this thread, and to try to figure out the "problem" of the lack of presence, or sustained participation, of Aboriginal babblers, folks of colour, and white women.
One route to answer this question is to read the limited archives of the feminism forum, the anti-racism forum and the aboriginal issues forum. See what posters were writing 2 years ago, see what they said and the responses of other babblers. This is a limited context, but a good enough context, to see what the culture of babble is, and how slow change can be.
Your question reads as "what is the reason for this lack of participation?" I think you know some of the reasons, and whatever you can share of your thoughts would be great.
E.Tamaran, the moderators aren't able to read all threads, ever. If you come across something offensive, please flag it and we will then know about it to address it.
RevolutionPlease, my next question, which may sound snarky but is not intended as such at all, is "why does this matter?". I ask this sincerely because having more diversified representation for its own sake is generally not something that works out well in the long term.
And my final comment is that when representation is asked for usually what people imagine is the organization being exactly the same, with just different bodies in places where they weren't before. I would like to suggest that the very act of having people from a more diverse social location pool, often results in a very different-looking and -functioning organization. There is almost always a push back to "the way things used to be".
In other words, be careful what you wish for.
Fine I'll take you up on your offer: Stargazer claims in this post that sealing, a cultural tradition of thousands of FNs for ages, is inhumane, http://www.rabble.ca/babble/introductions/nunavut-partly-blame-bathurst-caribou-ban
She's old-guard though so I doubt the moderators will do anything. But that's the sort of bullshit that keeps many FNs off this board. Casual racism and cultural superiortity disguised as "animal rights" from a self identified FN no less. Maby some human rights for the millions of FNs who have no clean water of housing. Or maybe some rights for the thousands of FNs who are being thrown into the streets for the olympics.
You have deliberately misread what I said. Then you fly off the handle.
BTW, I still stand by what I said. Too bad if you don't like my response or the way I think about the seal hunt and I have already explained that it had nothing to do with FN people. The fact that you can't seem to separate yourself from the whites that kill for fur is not my problem. It is yours.
BTW I am FN!!!!!!!!! and a fucking woman.
Casual racism my ass.
Just checking in to show my support for Stargazer.
Thank you G.
No probs.
As the amazing Temple Grandin says, we owe animals a decent life and a humane death.
Hunting seals is very important to the cultural survival of huge numbers of FN traditionals way of life. Claiming that it's inhumane well what does that say about the culture it supports?! It's basically saying that FN traditions are built on inhumane practices!! Try a little understanding of the power your words give to the PETA types and Europeans anti-seal crusaders. Fuck!!!
Such a claim says nothing about First Nations culture save that it engages in a barbaric and unsustainable animal cruelty.
Not in my language (English).
Open season on FNs peeps! Maysie, moderator, what do you think?! Is this going to make FNs want to participate on Rabble? Fuck, even in a thread about why so few non-majority folks the hits keeps coming.
Stargazer, should I retract? It's your call.
Feel free to PM me.
Just to be absolutely clear, it's seal hunting and cruelty in general I abhor.
No, you said it. and I've sent a note flag to the mods as offensive. You won't dodge this so easily, but we'll see if the mods really want a safe place for FNs here. Calling FNs barbaric is outrageous and you should be banned for it!!!
Yeah, good point. Let it stand. Okay, Stargazer?
Keep in mind we're in "rabble reactions."
Stargazer is FN and shares my POV. This has nothing to do with racism. This is your "progressive" cred taking a beating by one female FN and one female crazy. Deal.
Baby seals don't care what colour their killers are. And neither do I.
It's quite a stretch, beyond reason in fact, to conclude that Stargazer was referring to anything other than the historical European inspired east coast practice of harvesting thousands of seal pelts to use as high end clothing for those who consider it luxurious. A balance once existed in the Atlantic ecosystem, which was destroyed by industrial pillaging of the sea to the extent that it probably will never recover. When we speak of barbarity in all of its excesses we should be clear about where the problems and imbalances have originated from.
Well said, Slumberjack.
Okay everyone.
I'm with E.Tamaran on this one. Words like "inhumane" are problematic when referring to the seal hunt, simply because they reiterate, whether intended to or not, racism against FN people.
Stargazer, I respect your viewpoint, but I also know that very few vegetarians and vegans regard any killing of animals for food as humane, ever. My sense is that you use that word, in this context, in the same way that you use it in other contexts. I think it's simply a matter of how the same word changes in meaning and inference when one shifts topics. Words matter, which of course you know. When it comes down to it, slaughterhouses are inhumane, as well as the ways various organic and free range animals are killed for consumption, correct? While I agree with you, Stargazer, in principle, E. Tamaran is also correct. In a place like babble, saying that the practice of seal hunting is inhumane DOES feed into prevalent notions of racist ideas about FN people.
G.Muffin. While I know that you have a number of struggles going on in your life, the use of the word "barbaric" is not okay to use when describing any FN practice. This is a word that anyone born or raised in Canada has been taught to associate with FN people. Anyone who wishes to be an ally needs to reflect on why this was so effectively put into our brains, and any ally needs to try to re-educate themselves to distance themselves from using that term, and indeed, from looking at FN practices as "barbaric" and any other number of racist words that jump to mind because of this past teaching.
From a moderator perspective, I need to be clear, G.Muffin, that the use of that word, and others like it, to refer to FN practices is not okay. That's a warning.
And absolutely, the continued portrayal of FN folks and POC as "other" which words like "barbaric" do, contributes to the ongoing hostile environment on babble for those very people that RevolutionPlease started this thread about.
Great thread. Time to close it.
Ditto.
Support free speech.
Slumberjack was right.
Maysie, I do not agree with you. I cannot say the seal hunt is inhumane or I am anti-FN? That's insane.. That's like saying I cannot differentiate between my family hunting for food and sport hunting.
As well, there was no need for this person to jump on me twice with the F-Bomb.
It seems to me I am not respected as a person who identifies as FN. That hurts and is not cool.
Understandable, Stargazer. May I never use the word "barbaric" in any context ever again.
Shit happens G. I'm more upset about being told I am racist because I used the word inhumane to describe the massive culling of seals for fur. SJ's post at 23 was exactly what I was trying to say.