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JDL recruiting at York University?
February 7, 2010 - 1:12am
Scary stuff...
Even scarier are some of the comments:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/135873
What is more scary is the alleged assault. If true this is a real escalation. As for the comments, seems most come from the United States.
...and I'm sure they're not your cup of tea. I'm pretty sure you've expressed that you respectfully disagree with the JDL.
If it's true, there would be some witnesses right? I mean a "mob of 50" wouldn't go unnoticed. I agree that if this occurred, the perpetrators ought to be penalized. Unfortunately Hasbara has a reputation of being an extremist group (affiliated with Aish Hatorah. which Israeli-American journalist Jeffrey Goldberg calls the most fundamentalist movement in Judaism today) that has a very distorted view of the world and it would be preferable if a non-interested party was witness to the event.
You'd also think that somebody would have celphone cam footage of the attack, if it actually occurred.
Jaku, I think it makes sense to reserve judgment on the alleged altercation until actual evidence comes forward. As has been said, since the Hasbara people were videotaping a visual document should exist. Whether the documened evidence accords with Habara/JDL's claims of an "assualt" let alone "anti-Semitic slurs" is another matter.
Having seen the JDL physically assault people I think their statement on this is quite ironic. If Hasbara is as peace-loving as they claim they will issue a statement distancing themselves from the group.
I'm kind of astonished that the JDL suddenly have the public profile in Canada that they do. That didn't use to be true. In congressional testimony in the U.S., the FBI have described JDL actions as "terrorist." How were they suddenly rehabilitated here?
Unfortunately so-called "mainstream" institutions in the Canadian Jewish community such as the Canadian Jewish Congress and B'nai Brith have failed to disavow the JDL or advise the Jewish community to shun them. Contrast the CJC's laissez-faire attitude towards JDL with their obsession with trying to isolate and marginalize Independent Jewish Voices.
Also, Jaku, you have to understand that to a group like "Hasbara"(whose name, for those who don't know, is actually the Hebrew word for "propaganda") "Free(ing) Palestinians From Hamas" means "Annex The West Bank AND Gaza NOW!".
That's a position Jaku may respectfully disagree with.
Anyway, excellent post Ken.
I always thought that universities had the "power" to prevent an non students and non faculty / employees from being on campus. if York enforced this rule on all sides maybe students could be students
I'm not sure if they do or not. At York the idea of the campus being "private property" has been opposed by progressive students, but I'm pretty sure the right-wing Zionist groups has supports this idea, though they certainly bring outside "reinforcements" when needed.
Mycroft, do you think that Hasbara is already aligning themselves with the JDL, or it is more that the JDL is exploiting the situation and perhaps to some extent preying on somewhat naive students?
My admittedly unscientific reading says that York has far more militant Zionists among its Jewish student population compared to other universities in Canada. It's also known, somewhat paradoxically, as a very pro-Palestinian campus.
How on earth could you do that at U of T? Oxford? And I could go on.
And the call to let "students be students" is offensively paternalistic in a university context, where students are supposed to be becoming peers of their teachers and aiming to do self-directed work. Why, back in my day (geezer cackle), the entire campus would have gone on strike if anyone had dared to treat students so condescendingly.
It's not that sudden.
Meir Weinstein played a big part in having George Galloway banned. He gave an interview with ITV in Britain from the CBC studios in Toronto. There is a link to that interview in this blog (about 1/2 way down).
Weinstein makes some outrageous remarks about monitoring people who planned to attend George Galloway's talks. This guy is a thug and goon. None of these comments made in this interview were reported in the Canadian media.
Well, when I said "suddenly rehabilitated," that episode last year was precisely what I was thinking of. I'd certainly known before that the JDL were around, but I was used to seeing everyone disavow and warn against them.
I actually blogged to Weinstein's appearance on ITV myself last year; the video is embedded there. (I don't usually do blog self-advertisement, but this seemed relevant.) I had certainly been alerted to Weinstein's first public comments here by the corporate media; I'd seen him quoted in, eg, the G&M and I think the Notional Pest, although I didn't include any of those links in that post because I was writing days later, after things had gone further. (And I can't remember whether those earlier quotes from him in the media here included the threats he made at the end of the ITV interview.) Never once, though, have I seen Kenney or Mr Infandous (Kenney's mouthpiece from the American Heritage Institute, Alykhan Velshi) or Bernie Farber disavow Weinstein's role as an ally in the campaign to keep Galloway out.
I made no judgments whatsoever....I certainly qualified my statement...I am not thrilled with JDL on campus. Has it been tagged a terrorist group yet in Canada? Has any JDL member been charged or convicted of a crime? If so Campus might be able to act.
This nonsense about banning JDL from campuses is just another red herring. Unbelievable. All that matters is this:
Has every Muslim, Arab, pro-Palestinian, etc. group publicly disavowed the nuttier members of their cause? Hell, the Canadian Islamic Congress, which some could call the Islamic equivalent of the CJC, had their president go on TV (Michael Coren Show) and declare that any Israeli citizen over 18 years old was a legitimate target for murder.
As a Jew, I feel no need to "disavow" the JDL. They're a fringe group of thugs who, I imagine, could probably hold their annual convention in a minivan. Disavowing them is to acknowledge so much as the possibility that tehy could be considered to speak "for me" in the first place.
You are "not thrilled" and yet you come up with all these rationalizations for why the CJC and Bnai Brith needn't condemn the JDL. They are a hate group, that should be enough. Paul Fromm hasn't been convicted of any crime in Canada either but I doubt you'd have the same laissez-faire attitude that would prevent you from condemning him until he is convicted of something.
And need I remind you that JDL Canada is a branch of the international JDL group which has been convicted of crimes in the US, Israel and I believe France. I doubt you'd make such a differentiation between a parent group and its Canadian offshoot if we were talking about "Hamas Canada".
Jaku, you stated in another thread that you were part of the CJC's delegation to the World Jewish Congress a few years ago so you obviously have some connections with senior CJCers. Why don't you use that in to urge them to speak out against the JDL instead of just coming here and acting like an apologist?
Your not being thrilled with the JDL reminds me of Farber's comment that the JDL isn't "his cup of tea" - yet Farber sits down for coffee with Meir Weinstein. I guess that means that while the JDL isn't his "cup of tea' they are his cup of coffee.
And let me add that IJV certainly has never been convicted of any crime - which is the litmus test you've established for condemation - yet the CJC has spared no effort in attacking the group and trying to turn it into a pariah. Why the double standard?
The CJC and B'nai Brith regularly make demands that Muslim groups denounce extremists in their midsts even if the group has no involvement with them whatsoever yet not only does the CJC and BBC fail to practice what they preach with the JDL, they actually coddle the group, promote them in their media (in the case of both the Bnai Brith's Jewish Tribune and Canadian Jewish News which is loosely connected with CJC) and allow them to participate in their events.
Just to be clear: as a Jew, I feel as much connection to the CJC as I do to the JDL. Which is to say, none at all.
But if I felt compelled to publicly renounce the political or religious views of every Jewish group I disagreed with, I'd get nothing else done in my day.
SSC, I agree with you that there is something disturbing about demanding ritual denunciations from citizens, as there is something disturbing about demanding loyalty oaths from citizens. I don't do either; ie, I don't let people put words in my mouth. I speak when I feel genuinely moved to speak. I am a citizen, the noblest thing there is in a democracy, and we are teh free, eh?
However, Jason Kenney is another matter. He is a public servant. He does have to take an oath (to the Crown, who symbolizes the sovereignty of the people, all the people, all the time), and if a group like the JDL are claiming some influence on government actions, then yes, he should have to deny publicly that that is happening. Similarly, the CJC and BB: if they are demanding ritual denunciations from others, bullying the UCC and IJV, eg, then why the double standard?
I sorta doubt Kenney really listens much to the JDL. I think even the CJC is grossly over-estimated in terms of how influential they are. These are the groups that the media has in their rolodex whenever tehy need a comment from a Jewish group but I think among actual Jews in Canada, they hold very little influence and can't swing many votes. If I were a strategist for a political party, I would think getting an influential rabbi on board would be far more effective than Farber or the goons at JDL. These can't exactly do much for anyone.
SSC, are you not aware of all the funding decisions that have been made, just over the last year, clearly determined by Kenney or Kenneyesque politics? KAIROS? The R&D scandal? Pressure on CIDA?
Again, this is what CJC and BBC demand of others. But I agree with you that individuals are not compelled to renonunce the views of every group in their community that holds offensive views. However, I think the CJC and BBC do have a responsibility to denounce a hate group in the community, particularly one that is growing and is busy trying to recruite youth. There's even a video online of Weinstein addressing what appears to be a high school class.
I'm aware. But I doubt it's because of pressure from a fringe group like the JDL as opposed to Kenney's personal right wing views on the Mid-East. The reality is that making political decisions in order to win "the Jewish vote" (if such a thing exists) doesn't make much sense, seeing as how there are only a handful of ridings with enough Jewish voters to really make a difference and some of them - like in Montreal - are unlikely to ever vote Conservative anyway. They picked up Thornhill and made some gains in Eglinton-Lawrence but two ridings is hardly sufficient motivation to change poliicies unless you actually believe in those changes.
Also, with the new financing rules in place and limits on donations, it doesn't even make sense to enact policies in order to attract large donations from Jewish voters since the most they can give is capped pretty low anyway.
It's not just the so-called Jewish vote that Harper is after with his pandering to Israel (and I agree, aside from maybe Thornhill it's not going to get him very far) there is the much more substantial Christian evangelical vote. Remember, most hard core Zionists are not Jews but evangelical Christians.
And on that note, from the "What a friend we have in Jesus" department: