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JDL recruiting at York University?

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Star Spangled C...
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Joined: Sep 15 2008
No fan of Hagee or Rush but that characterization is not fair. I could show you books written by Orthodox rabbis making very similar statements concerning the Holocaust as Hagee did (don't have it in front of me but you can look up a book called "Darkness Before Dawn"). Again, not a fan of Rush but that's also a distortion of what he said. He was accusing certain people on the left of conflating "Jewish" and "Wall St. Bankers" - again, a stupid thing to say, but he was attacking the left, not Jews. You can read his actual statement here http://www.vosizneias.com/47655/2010/01/23/new-york-rush-limbaugh-responds-to-abraham-foxmans-accusation/ on a Jewish news site and see the responses from Jewish readers defending Rush and attacking Foxman of the ADL for going after him. Also, I wonder if it's really necessary for Harper to court the evangelical vote over israel. It's not like they're gonna vote Liberal otherwise.

skdadl
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Joined: May 5 2001

Star Spangled Canadian wrote:

 But I doubt it's because of pressure from a fringe group like the JDL as opposed to Kenney's personal right wing views on the Mid-East.

 

There's something really wrong with this logical leap. I don't think anyone ever argued that the JDL were driving government policy. I think that Harper and Kenney have a number of reasons for doing what they're doing. I mean, Harper, to begin with, just hates NGOs. He's happy to shrink any publicly funded program he can, although now that's he's been in power for a while, he's probably decided that it's quite a nice thing to give some money to his best friends.

 

And then they have their ideological commitments. The CPCCA scare is part of the terra scare -- it is very much in this government's interests to have people convinced that we do face a clash of civilizations and that we must give up many of our liberties to protect against the threat. Harper would love that part, does love that part. And then there's the MIC (military-industrial complex), of which the U.S.-Israel axis is a major driver. That is an immensely profitable business for some Canadians, and it's important to Harper to present himself well to those guys.

 

So the JDL are useful idiots to him, more or less. They are a dangerous horror to the rest of us, but he and Kenney and a number of other people of varied interests are apparently unwilling to disavow them. That's more the lay of the land.


aka Mycroft
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Joined: Aug 8 2004

Quote:
Also, I wonder if it's really necessary for Harper to court the evangelical vote over israel. It's not like they're gonna vote Liberal otherwise.

They may just stay home or vote for the Christian Heritage Party. Remember, Harper has abandoned a number of social conservative policies by not opposing same sex marriage or abortion so he has to give them some reason to vote for him.


Prophit
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Joined: Jun 25 2008

aka Mycroft wrote:

Star Spangled Canadian wrote:

Has every Muslim, Arab, pro-Palestinian, etc. group publicly disavowed the nuttier members of their cause?

The CJC and B'nai Brith regularly make demands that Muslim groups denounce extremists in their midsts even if the group has no involvement with them whatsoever yet not only does the CJC and BBC fail to practice what they preach with the JDL, they actually coddle the group, promote them in their media (in the case of both the Bnai Brith's Jewish Tribune and Canadian Jewish News which is loosely connected with CJC) and allow them to participate in their events.

I work in the same building that house CJC and UJA. I have asked CJC about this allegation. I am told that CJC has not made such a demand. If they are wrong I would like to show them. Please post some examples. Since you claim CJC "regularly" make these demands I'm sure you have them handy.


Lard Tunderin Jeezus
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Joined: Aug 27 2001

And what would his reward be if he jumped through these hoops for you? Just askin'.

BTW, I would like to say that it's wonderful to have skdadl around here more-or-less regularly once again.


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

Prophit wrote:

I work in the same building that house CJC and UJA. I have asked CJC about this allegation. I am told that CJC has not made such a demand. If they are wrong I would like to show them. Please post some examples. Since you claim CJC "regularly" make these demands I'm sure you have them handy.

Aka Mycroft, so help me, if you respond to this post, I will totally lose all respect for your ability to avoid straw persons, red herrings, and assorted other diversions.

And I agree, it's great to have skdadl around here - not to mention Michelle in her new capacity as lowly mighty babbler!

As for the "Jewish" Defence League, I hereby put my curse on them and wish them eternal anguish. If you don't know what that means, better go see the Coen Brothers' "A Serious Man".

 


aka Mycroft
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Joined: Aug 8 2004

Prophit wrote:

I work in the same building that house CJC and UJA. I have asked CJC about this allegation. I am told that CJC has not made such a demand. If they are wrong I would like to show them. Please post some examples. Since you claim CJC "regularly" make these demands I'm sure you have them handy.

Prophit, perhaps you can pop upstairs and ask the CJC why it is they are obsessed with IJV and trying to marginalize it whilst they treat JDL with kid gloves and even favour?


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

Ok, Mycroft, you've redeemed yourself - that was an appropriate answer.

Prophit, you can also ask yourself why CJC is soft on fascists and uncompromisingly insulting with progressive Jews.

 


skdadl
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Joined: May 5 2001

Man, you guys keep high standards here these days.


Michelle
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Joined: May 10 2001

Quote:

I work in the same building that house CJC and UJA.

Gee, what a shocker. :D


Jaku
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Joined: Dec 7 2007

aka Mycroft wrote:

Jaku wrote:

I made no judgments whatsoever....I certainly qualified my statement...I am not thrilled with JDL on campus. Has it been tagged a terrorist group yet in Canada? Has any JDL member been charged or convicted of a crime? If so Campus might be able to act.

You are "not thrilled" and yet you come up with all these rationalizations for why the CJC and Bnai Brith needn't condemn the JDL. They are a hate group, that should be enough. Paul Fromm hasn't been convicted of any crime in Canada either but I doubt you'd have the same laissez-faire attitude that would prevent you from condemning him until he is convicted of something.

And need I remind you that JDL Canada is a branch of the international JDL group which has been convicted of crimes in the US, Israel and I believe France. I doubt you'd make such a differentiation between a parent group and its Canadian offshoot if we were talking about "Hamas Canada".

Jaku, you stated in another thread that you were part of the CJC's delegation to the World Jewish Congress a few years ago so you obviously have some connections with senior CJCers. Why don't you use that in to urge them to speak out against the JDL instead of just coming here and acting like an apologist?

Your not being thrilled with the JDL reminds me of Farber's comment that the JDL isn't "his cup of tea" - yet Farber sits down for coffee with Meir Weinstein. I guess that means that while the JDL isn't his "cup of tea' they are his cup of coffee.

And let me add that IJV certainly has never been convicted of any crime - which is the litmus test you've established for condemation - yet the CJC has spared no effort in attacking the group and trying to turn it into a pariah. Why the double standard?

I totally and unequivocally reject JDL.

Now, show us all the proof  AkaMycroft how JDL, which I totally reject, is a hate group. I don't doubt you but you have a reputation for making assertions without backing it up.


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

Jaku wrote:

Now, show us all the proof  AkaMycroft how JDL, which I totally reject, is a hate group.

From the aftermath of Kahane's assassination:

Quote:
He carried the title of a man of God. But Rabbi Meir Kahane spent most of his life wallowing in the profane rather than promoting the sacred. He could claim credit, if that is the word, for the formation of the violent Jewish Defense League and for a campaign of hate-mongering against Arabs that repelled even hard-line Zionists in Israel

[...]

He routinely referred to Arabs as "dogs" and demanded that they be expelled from Israel and the occupied territories. "We must throw the Arabs out," he once told PEOPLE. "It was written in the Talmud: 'If one comes to slay you, slay him first.' " He denounced any Jews who had sexual relations with an Arab. As a representative of the extremist Kach Party, Kahane won one term in the Israeli Knesset. From the start, though, his presence there was deeply embarrassing to mainstream politicians, and in 1988 Israel's highest court banned his party from running for the Knesset on the grounds that it advocated "racist" and "undemocratic" policies.

As for the fascist "Jewish" Defence League of Canada:

KAHANE WAS RIGHT!

18TH YEAR MEMORIAL FOR RABBI MEIR KAHANE


Quod erat demonstrandum.

 


Ken Burch
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Joined: Feb 26 2005

And, on THIS side of the border, there's what the JDL did to Alex Odeh:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Odeh


Jaku
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Joined: Dec 7 2007

They are a bunch of thugs. Do the police claim that the Canadian JDL are involved with Odeh's death?


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

Ken, we're talking about the Canadian JDL here. You will need a full legal and research team to convince Jaku that the Canadian JDL are a gang of fascists and racist hatemongers. If you diverge, even slightly, from that task, you will be taken on a slow canoe ride down a meandering rivulet to nowhere. Just a friendly note of caution.

 


remind
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Joined: Jun 25 2004

Wow, terrorists organizations recruiting in Canada, at our universities even....


aka Mycroft
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Joined: Aug 8 2004
Jaku wrote:

aka Mycroft wrote:

Jaku wrote:

I made no judgments whatsoever....I certainly qualified my statement...I am not thrilled with JDL on campus. Has it been tagged a terrorist group yet in Canada? Has any JDL member been charged or convicted of a crime? If so Campus might be able to act.

You are "not thrilled" and yet you come up with all these rationalizations for why the CJC and Bnai Brith needn't condemn the JDL. They are a hate group, that should be enough. Paul Fromm hasn't been convicted of any crime in Canada either but I doubt you'd have the same laissez-faire attitude that would prevent you from condemning him until he is convicted of something.

And need I remind you that JDL Canada is a branch of the international JDL group which has been convicted of crimes in the US, Israel and I believe France. I doubt you'd make such a differentiation between a parent group and its Canadian offshoot if we were talking about "Hamas Canada".

Jaku, you stated in another thread that you were part of the CJC's delegation to the World Jewish Congress a few years ago so you obviously have some connections with senior CJCers. Why don't you use that in to urge them to speak out against the JDL instead of just coming here and acting like an apologist?

Your not being thrilled with the JDL reminds me of Farber's comment that the JDL isn't "his cup of tea" - yet Farber sits down for coffee with Meir Weinstein. I guess that means that while the JDL isn't his "cup of tea' they are his cup of coffee.

And let me add that IJV certainly has never been convicted of any crime - which is the litmus test you've established for condemation - yet the CJC has spared no effort in attacking the group and trying to turn it into a pariah. Why the double standard?

I totally and unequivocally reject JDL.

Now, show us all the proof  AkaMycroft how JDL, which I totally reject, is a hate group. I don't doubt you but you have a reputation for making assertions without backing it up.

Are you unfamiliar with what Weinstein said after the Tomb of the Patriarch's massacre?

Ken Burch
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Joined: Feb 26 2005

Logical question, Jaku:

If you "totally and unequivocally reject JDL", why are you being a stickler about the degree of evidence that proves they are a hate group?

 


RevolutionPlease
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Joined: Oct 15 2007

LOOK! Over there-->>>>>


aka Mycroft
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Joined: Aug 8 2004
Jaku, the Hasbara group collaborated with JDL in organizing last summer's Glendon demo against a conference on Israel-Palestine. Do you also "reject" groups lending the extremist JDL legitimacy by collaborating with them? Should the CJC do what they've done with the UCC and intervene strongly to warn them off "partnering" with a group that they think is beyond the pale or should their opprobrium be limited to peaceful, progressive Jewish groups and not extend to hateful, extremist ones? Don't you find it odd that CJC/UJA will burn up lines trying to stop Jewish institutions from renting space to an IJV sponsored event or even giving money to a non-political art installation involving a Jewish anti-Zionist artist but is silent when Jewish groups work with a fascist, terrorist-apologist group like the JDL. Perhaps you, as someone who has gone on at least one CJC junket and others who work in the same building as CJC can explain the double standard? Why does CJC go apoplectic when it comes to IJV while having a much more relaxed and even laissez-faire attitude towards JDL?

Max Bialystock
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Joined: Feb 19 2007

I'm far more concerned about people like Peter Kent than I am about Jaku.  Kent was Facebook friends with Meir Weinstein.  Kind of ironic that Kent rails about "terrorism" while being friends with the leader of a terrorist group.  Of course only the alternative press (NOW) and some bloggers picked this up, but the mainstream press ignored it (of course).   Kent is supposedly this great "friend of the Jews" who got elected by saying how the Liberals were anti-Semitic (including Susan Kadis and Irwin Cotler apparenty!) - I wouldn't trust him to watch my house while I'm away.  The only reason he cares about Jews so much is because it serves his rabid anti-Muslim bigotry. 

 


aka Mycroft
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Joined: Aug 8 2004

Irwin Cotler still is Facebook friends with Weinstein (at least he was last time I checked a few weeks ago)


remind
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Joined: Jun 25 2004

Quote:
Don't you find it odd that CJC/UJA will burn up lines trying to stop Jewish institutions from renting space to an IJV sponsored event or even giving money to a non-political art installation involving a Jewish anti-Zionist artist but is silent when Jewish groups work with a fascist, terrorist-apologist group like the JDL.

Perhaps you, as someone who has gone on at least one CJC junket and others who work in the same building as CJC can explain the double standard? Why does CJC go apoplectic when it comes to IJV while having a much more relaxed and even laissez-faire attitude towards JDL?

 

Excellent questions AKA, the discontinuity, and hypocrisy is astounding, and very alarming actually.

 

Interesting obsevations on Peter Kent Max.


aka Mycroft
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Joined: Aug 8 2004
Quote:
Students Against Israeli Apartheid @ York University (SAIA) condemns the racist and hateful intimidation of its activists by pro-Israeli groups. SAIA also condemns York’s administration failure to keep the York Campus a safe place free from the presence of well-known hate groups that condone the killing of Palestinians. On Wednesday February 3rd, 2010 SAIA held a tabling session at York University. During that session, two pro-Israeli apartheid advocates approached the table and proceeded to provoke arguments with the members at the table, accusing all non-Palestinian members of SAIA of being anti-Semitic and making many racist comments. They especially singled out women who are visibly Muslim or Arab during their sexist and racial intimidation. Despite SAIA’s calls to York security, security was not quick to intervene. Later on, a number of individuals were noticed wearing sweatshirts with the logo of the well known hate group “The Jewish Defense League” (JDL). After walking by the table a few times, an additional ten to fifteen Israeli Apartheid supporters congregated around SAIA’s table. The previous agitators also returned to the table, and continued to provoke SAIA members and general student population who support the Palestinian struggle. Among that group, there were identifiably four to five JDL members who are not students or related to York University. They were also sitting across from the SAIA table in a very intimidating and threatening fashion. They had no intent to even hide their identities, wearing JDL t-shirts and approaching the table to let their picture be taken. It is important to note that the intimidation was so intense that York Security had to call the Toronto Police. In addition to their intimidating presence on York campus, members of the JDL were conducting what could only be described as policing activities on campus. They were roaming the campus and interrogating students about an alleged accident that happened earlier in the week. The JDL’s assumption of this policing role with no intervention or objection on the behalf of the University is extremely alarming. It is important to note that in the past year, York University has issued a trespass notice to the JDL and banned its members from campus [for more details about the JDL, see below]. The provocations and intimidating presence of the JDL is no coincidence. These provocations, trespassing of the JDL and students affiliating themselves with this hate group increase as the approach Israeli Apartheid Week draws nearer (March 1-7th, 2010). Last year at York, Palestinian solidarity activists and Palestinian students/activists had to face the same forms of intimidation. These provocations are intended to create the false impression that York campus is not safe for Jewish students because of Israeli Apartheid Week. As an anti-racist human rights group, SAIA upholds the right of all students to their physical safety, and calls on the University to ban the hate group, Jewish Defense League, from its campus, and monitor the provocations of the pro-Israel groups which are the source of the perceived tension. TO VIEW A PHOTO AND VIDEO OF THE JDL ON YORK CAMPUS: Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWQ6FWgTw14 Photo: http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/9384/img1794q.jpg *The Jewish Defense League* The Jewish Defense League (JDL) is a well-known hate group. They were founded by Meir Kahane, an extremist who advocated violence against, and even the mass-murder of Palestinians and Arabs. In Toronto each year, the JDL holds a memorial for Meir Kahane – organizers proclaim “Kahane was Right!” and celebrate the legacy of a man who called for the death of Palestinians and Arab people(i). The racist, violent ideology advocated by Kahane and embraced by the JDL has motivated hate crimes against Palestinians and other Arab people. The most notable incident took place in 1994 when Baruch Goldstein, a follower of Kahane, and a member of the Jewish Defense League in the United States, walked into the Ibrahimi Mosque in Hebron and killed 29 Palestinians while they were praying. Kach and Kahane Chai (ii)– two groups associated with the Kahanist movement – were banned in Israel for their extremism. According to a 2007 report, the JDL in the US continues to raise funds for the outlawed Kahane Chai . The JDL have been profiled by the FBI because of their violent extremism. An FBI report identifies the JDL as "a right-wing terrorist group" and "a violent extremist Jewish organization." They are included in the report because on December 11, 2001: Irving David Rubin and Earl Leslie Krugel were arrested by the Los Angeles Joint Terrorism Task Force for conspiring to build and place improvised explosive devices (IEDs) at the King Fahd Mosque in Culver City, California, and the local office of Congressman Darrell Issa...Statements by Rubin and Krugel indicated that they had planned the attack against the mosque to demonstrate the militancy of the JDL. Krugel further indicated that the attack was planned to provide a “wake up call” to the Muslim community. It was determined that Rubin and Krugel had already acquired the necessary components to build an IED, including pipes, fuses, and smokeless powder.(iii) In Canada, the JDL is led by Meir Weinstein – a longtime follower of Kahane, who was once a spokesperson for the Kahanist movement and, in 1994, refused to condemn the massacre at the Ibrahimi Mosque in Hebron.(iv) Last year, Weinstein joined a Facebook group called ‘Death to the Arabs’. When questioned about it by the CBC, he claimed he received it in Hebrew and did not understand what it meant – a ridiculous claim given that Weinstein speaks and understands Hebrew, having lived in Israel for 10 years and served in the Israeli military. For more detailed information about Weinstein’s violent, racist views, there is a comprehensive interview with Front Page Magazine in 2008, where he says: We don’t believe there’s a peace plan out there that’s viable. We don’t believe that any of these plans have provided peace. They provided bloodshed. The best you can do is have a security plan. We also back the right of Arabs to leave Israel and to go to other countries. The government should make incentives. This is so that Israel doesn’t find itself in a demographic nightmare. It’s so that a Palestinian country will not be a threat to Israel and a war ground from which to target Israel. It was the case with Gaza, and Lebanon… Israel needs to flex its security muscle. The land of Israel belongs to the Jewish people, not the Arabs.(v) By expanding the definition of anti-Semitism to include any and all criticism of Israel, the JDL labels anyone advocating for justice for Palestinians as their enemy. The JDL publicly advocates for violence against its perceived enemies. Their Facebook page clearly outlines their philosophy and is explicit about the use of violence: “JDL upholds the principle of Barzel – iron – the need to both move to help Jews everywhere and to change the Jewish image through sacrifice and all necessary means – even strength, force and violence.”(vi) The JDL frequently organizes martial arts classes for their members, which makes them even more dangerous. It is no surprise that at last year’s Israeli Apartheid Week, there were several incidents of harassment and physical violence against event organizers and attendees. During a pro-Palestine event at Ryerson University in September 2009, several members of the JDL attempted to storm the event, but were denied entry because the room was at capacity. Ryerson security had to be called to remove them from the premises. In June 2009, after nearly a year of JDL protests at York University, the administration, on advice from the Toronto Police, issued a trespass notice against the JDL. TO VIEW A PHOTO OF RACIST GRAFFITI BY THE JDL IN HEBRON (PALESTINE): http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/7343/800pxgasthearabspainted.jpg ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [i]http://www.jdlcanada.ca/reference/events/notice-110308.html [ii]http://www.washington-report.org/archives/November_2007/0711030.html [iii]http://www.fbi.gov/publications/terror/terror2000_2001.htm [iv]http://www.rabble.ca/news/whos-terrorist-jdl-and-galloway-ban [v]http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/Read.aspx?GUID=20CAC62D-65C2-4DEC-94BF-BC66D2994E8D [vi]http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2225364895

Lord Palmerston
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Joined: Jan 25 2004

I can't really hear what these JDL thugs are saying, but the fact that they're on campus is disturbing enough. 


Lord Palmerston
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Joined: Jan 25 2004

Well it looks like Hasbara's story contradicts the facts:

Quote:
The video was taken using the closed circuit cameras which are installed on campus, and although there is no audio as the camera is placed in a high traffic area, it clearly shows the events which took place between 4pm and 5pm on Monday, February 1, the day in question.  The table which was set up by the Hasbara group at York is visible, and no more than about 15 to 30 people are seen around the table at any given time. At one point, it can be seen that an argument may have taken place; however, at no point during the video is there any evidence of a brawl, nor can a shouting match be evident from the students’ body language. At several points cameras are being used by the students, and at one point a female student who obviously does not take well to being on camera tries to reach for the camera, but the male student holding it lifts it up so it is out of her reach. No evidence of students being physically assaulted can be found during the video. York’s security officers are seen towards the end of the video taking statements from students who were on scene.

http://www.shalomlife.com/eng/5021/York_University_is_a_Safe_Place_for_S...

I am shocked, just shocked, that a group called "Hasbara" would engage in propaganda.


Jaku
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Joined: Dec 7 2007

I agree that the presence of JDL on Campus is troublesome. In fact I would say the same for any outside agitators on Campus there to simply be provocative.

However if your video is the worst that JDL does on Campus then its at best a paper tiger. Clearly college kids smiling and joking around seems rather tame .


Prophit
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Joined: Jun 25 2008
I certainly try to maintain an open mind but it appears as though any time I write or ask a question certain motivations are ascribed to me. Yes I work in Jewish milieu. It doesn't mean that I embrace everything those who work at UJA or CJC state. At the same time when a poster like Aka Mycroft suggests that the CJC has labeled all who criticize Israel as anti-Semites and CJC says it never happened, I have to take stock. As to the JDL on campus, if the students in the youtube are not part of the York Campus their presence there wearing JDL T-shirts can certainly be seen as a provocation. If however they are students not engaged in disruptive activities that to me is an entirely different matter. Despite my very distasteful feelings about the rightwing JDL, unless and until it is found to act in a criminal manner, these students are more than free to associate with it. By the way as distasteful as I find "pro-life" advocates, they too would fit into this same boat as would pro-Palestinian groups and many others.

remind
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Joined: Jun 25 2004

uh....ya right!

 

 

Thanks for the information LP that they were lying through their teeth....

 

 

Personally, would hope  other Canadian  sectarian groups will challenge their banning as alleged terrorist orgs, on the basis that the JDL is allowed to function in Canada, even though they are  internationally labelled terrorits too.

 

That some people are here ignoring this hyprocrisy and discontinuity, repeatedly, grows ever more troubling.


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

Prophit wrote:
Despite my very distasteful feelings about the rightwing JDL, unless and until it is found to act in a criminal manner, these students are more than free to associate with it. 

Yeah, well no one said students are not free to associate with JDL.

What has been said, however, is that the CJC, which pressures the United Church into dissociating itself from Independent Jewish Voices, does not lift a finger to warn students, or anyone else, about the fascists of the JDL. That's the point you should reflect upon, if you truly want to maintain an open mind as you say.


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