babble is rabble.ca's discussion board but it's much more than that: it's an online community for folks who just won't shut up. It's a place to tell each other — and the world — what's up with our work and campaigns.
Support rabble | Advertise with us | Contact our staff | About rabble | Log-in or Register for a new account | Corrections | Privacy policy | Newsfeeds | Mailing lists
rabble: Features | Columnists | In Cahoots | Blogs | Books | Photos | What's Up | Polls
babble: Forum Topics | Active Topics
The rpn: About the RPN | Become a podcaster
rabbleTV: Program Guide | Features | Indie Inside | Best of the net
Copyright © 2001-2013 the authors
Syndicate
Kewl. Women and homosexuals? Where do I sign up?
In terms of the news item, I don't have anything to add to the comments already made except to hope that justice will be served and this asshole goes to prison. I believe the systemic analysis has already been done.
And if he is found not guilty?
Then I'm sure we'd all agree he should be released. Hands up anyone who disagrees, and thinks he should be jailed even if acquitted!
If he'd ever been a prisoner at GTMO, you'd see a lot of hands going up, Snert, beginning with Obama, Holder, Harper, etc.
Maysie I hope i didn't put my foot in my mouth!
That's the thing. People have already written him off as guilty as charged. [I'm guilty of that myself]
If he is found not guilty how many people will turn around and say the justice system sucks he is guilty but the army is just covering up for itself?
Don't really think they would be laying charges against him unless there was a significant body of evidence against him.
Nor would they be starting to conduct investigation of unsolved murders and rapes where he was stationed prior.
Moreover, never hear this "if proven guilty" stuff when it is someone who is not publically high profile.
And it is too cute the military persons here trying to discount his military profile and military reality..... :rolleyes:
He was base commander....
Also P4 there is several threads at babble on military spousal abuse that you can do a site search on if you are interested in the stats and dimensions of the military spousal abuse, that actually also has been reported in the news.
I think that woul all depend on the evidence and on what grounds he would be acquitted. Besides that, you missed the point.
I think I've been pretty careful NOT to say he is guilty, actually. I recognize, and believe in, innocent until proven guilty.
No, each individual soldier is not trained to be a killing machine personally. But they are all trained to be part of The Killing Machine that is the military when on offensive missions, and trained to support those who are the killing machines. They may not be taught how to do it, but they're taught to adopt the attitude that it's necessary and good to be done. They all go through basic training, where they're taught that being a wimp or girly is bad.
Luckily, some continue to think for themselves. But when you realize that domestic violence is way higher among the "authoritarian" professions like military, policing, security, etc., then you've got to wonder whether there is a systemic problem.
The jobs P4 describes as safe jobs weren't so safe for the guys stationed in Iraq. Not to mention the constant and never-ending tours. They are there to kill, and that's what a lot of them do.
well, remind, i need to be honest. This is a hot button topic for me, so my rhetoric may be a tad over the top. And I do NOT have faith in the police system.
But I know that when charges like this are compiled against a white man who is, shall we say, in a significant position of authority, in a profession that is regarded as very high on the "good man doing good work" scale (mainstream standards of course), then it takes a lot to bring charges in the first place.
And yes, of course he's innocent until bla bla. But he's a white guy. He'll be fine. The police and the "justice" system do far worse to far more people who have done nothing or very little. With no media attention.
I wonder if the police could have charged him earlier - but maybe they wanted their evidence in this case to be absolutely ironclad?
I thought I heard on the news that they hadn't looked in his direction until they got a tip recently during a roadblock where they stopped and talked to every car that passed, hoping to get some information.
Not accurate, even officers have gone through basic training of some sort and participate in war games and strategic training expeditiions, even if they have moved on to "paper pushing" and do not do so any longer.
Learning how to kill is not something one loses over time, much like once you learn to ride a bike, you always know how, even if you have not ridden for 20 years. The will to, or not to, is what is occuring, and nothing more.
People have to really start realizing, the objectification of women and girls is an issue in our society, and it is one that literally is killing us women.
Dehumanization of people its what makes it allowable for crimes against humanity to occur...history has shown us this is so.
Once non-human status is achieved, towards an identifable group, any type of abuse or act of violence, is possible on the sliding scale of things, just as Michelle indicated above.
It's a chicken and egg thing - do these professions turn men into abusers, or are your "alpha male" types more attracted to these professions in the 1st place? I tend to think the latter - people's personalities are shaped at a very early age.
I was kind of thinking the same thing.
That could be. Either way, the point stands, that the military is a breeding ground for violence against women.
Breeding ground or safe haven, perhaps the distinction doesn't matter.
I think it's both ... and those that don't 'fit in' are pushed out or opt out.
Save haven, yes, but it also legitimizes and reinforces it through the attitudes it encourages.
Take your garden-variety sexist jerk who thinks women are inferior. I know a few guys like that who have never laid a hands on a woman. Now, put sexist jerk guy into a uniform, put him through basic training where he's told that any show of weakness is female and despicable, and that the military is always right, and that he is part of that military that is always right. Surround him with messages that violence is good, killing people they tell you to hate and see as your enemy (and don't forget - weakness and being a pussy or a "girl" is hateful) is a good thing, and what do you get?
I'm betting someone who is a hell of a lot more likely to act physically on their sexist attitudes than before they entered that kind of atmosphere. And certainly someone who thinks that being controlling and emotionally manipulative with their "inferiors" is a-okay.
Having been through basic training (twice - once in the ranks and once as an officer), I think it's even more subtle than that, Michelle. That's why it's so hard to see when you're still in the middle of it. Take a step back, and it jumps out at you (or at least it did for me).
Interestingly, if you google "serial killer profession", the two professions that jump out (and for which some evidence is provided as to frequency) are the medial profession, and truck drivers.
I also think that this personality type is specifically recruited by the military especially for their Officer corp. If you don't absolutely believe in the hierarchical model then you can never be a good officer.
Then after you've trained this misogynist you tell him he is a defender of women and children and anyone who questions the military is a supporter of the Taliban attack on women. I think the effect is compounded by this training to kill and the believe that they are righteous killers.
___________________________________________
Soothsayers had a better record of prediction than economists
Great honesty maysie! ;)
Oh now I remember what I had been going to say before I got distracted.....
I love over-the-top rhetoric, in today's world of careful speech it soothes the soul.......
The culture of the military, which dehumanizes the individual into unquestioned subservience, systemically cultivates and magnifies what already exists in the broader society. When military officials speak of looking after people within the organization, which they often do when questions of how individuals are treated internally surface, what they really mean is the priority of ensuring compliance and discipline among the ranks, and the importance of ensuring all policies affecting personnel are devised to ensure that the best interests of the system are paramount. It is an overwhelming patriarchal structure, one where an individual has no opinion that could be offered without asking permission first, where only thoughts that relay how wonderfully effective everything is are allowed to be voiced. A typically abusive personal relationship is but a microcosm of what exists on a much larger scale within such an institution. Some individuals naturally gravitate towards it as best representing their beliefs, and excel while doing so, others discover the reality afterward and either leave or continue to exist, while others attempt to subvert the harmful effects upon individuals.
Agree with this notation, but IMV, it also becomes more blatent once your in the middle of it, and desensitized.
ETA: Good words Slumberjack.....
I'm trying to decide if I agree with this or not. There is a big "don't be such a girl" culture that's common enough. I remember once tiltingmy head when I over heard a female coworker of mine telling a guy to stop crying like a girl.
Michelle do you think the military is more of a breeding ground for violence against woman than say rap music or video games like grand Theft Auto where you pay sex workers then either rob or kill them after? There is a big distinction in the "group behavior" of different groups in the military from the grunts to officers and from combat soldiers and support soldiers.
It's interesting what Snert pointed out regarding Truckers and people in the medical profession.
oops
Why is it interesting?
It is not even factual, did you do a google/search engine search for "serial killers" yourself regarding his claims?
I did.
Hmm so did I. And the articles did point out a prevalence of medical professions "Some people with a pathological interest in the power of life and death tend to be attracted to medical professions."
(Wikipedia).
But they left out truck drivers.