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I shall very much reflect on this. I respect the right of the UCC to meet with the CJC and reach its own conclusions on whom or which organizations it wishes to deal with.
As for the need for CJC to warn students about the JDL, I have problems. If the group is not a terrorist group or has not been found by police or even human rights commissions to have violated hate procedures what can it do? Sure it can issue "warnings" but in this litigious society, such "warnings" can be perceived as libelous. If I were CJC or UJA I would be more than conscious of this. Nonetheless I will consider this further.
This thread is a new low for rabble. Spying on peoples "facebook friends"??? Seriously?? You guys sound like you're in grade 3.
What about spying on rabble? What grade are you in - loser?
Etiology of Mental Illness: Reigning in Rogue States
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/etiology-of-mental-illness/
"In January, Canada stopped contributing to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA). It is the latest in a series of decisions that have seen Ottawa 'out Israeling' Washington.."
Are not!
Hasbara's claim of an assualt exposed as a total hoax
You mean Hasbara and the JDL lied and falsely claimed there had been both a mob and assaults? Well, I tell you, I'm shocked.
Good thing we have a number of people in this thread who either work in the same building as the CJC or have gone on CJC junkets who will, I am sure, as people of integrity immediately condemn both groups for attempting to perpetrate a fraud on both the Jewish community and York students.
Jaku and prophit, the floor is all yours.
i'm glad that the video showed otherwise. i guess that is why their is a "battle" going on between Hillel and Hasbora in who speaks for the community on campus. one group Hillel is the larger and represents the vast majority of Jewish students on campus. the other Hasbara is a very small organization that claims to represent the voices of a vocal minority who are against Hillel for being too soft.
I wonder who the real advocate for the Jewish students is. if it is by numbers then Hillel wins hands down so to speak. Maybe the minority group called Hasbara should just pack up since they know that they are really able to hold their meetings in a telephone booth and do not represent anyone.
Hasbara is the campus group for Aish Hatorah, which the Israeli-American journalist Jeffrey Goldberg notes is an arm of the pro-settlement right in Israel.
The Jewish Extremists Behind Obsession
You're right that Hasbara represents the rightwing fringe. But Hillel was also behind the "Drop YFS" movement at York.
I've noticed that when JSOs become Hillels, they become more politicized.
Hasbrara at York had about 350 fans last week on Facebook, now it's down to 103.
ETA: Hillel doesn't represent the "vast majority" of Jewish students at York. There are about 5000 Jewish students at York and the vast majority aren't involved with Hillel. I'd say they probably represent 10-15%.
I love the way certain demands are made here by people like akamycroft that others (those who hold a different view on Israel) would never get away with.
Jaku surely you can't think concoting this sort of hoax is anything less than deplorable. This hurts the Jewish community. It trivializes real anti-Semitism. This doesn't concern you?
If you have any proof that say Independent Jewish Voices has pulled these shennanigans - please let us know and I will condemn it.
BTW If you think I refuse to criticize people in my own "camp" - well I think Adam Giambrone is a crass opportunist and a real asshole who can't be trusted (though I don't think he should have to resign as TTC chair). So there.
LP Mrs. Miles' niece is at York and says that about 60% of Jewish students are involved with hillel. so even if she is wrong and we cut it in half it is still bigger than the 10 t o15%. i do not know how you quantify the membership because their are no dues etc. but I would guess that my nieces number is prob closer than yours.
as far as the JSU hillel change over time that is the irony becasue the JSU's were funded by bnai brith then bb cut all funding to campus
Only because you seem to be demanding answers from me,....
Thank you LP for your more reasonable approach. If in fact Hasbara lied it should and must be dealt with by York Univeristy administration. I imagine there are proper procedures in place to handle such situations.
Me I don't understand this. If this JDL is a terrorist group why are they running around loose in this country?? One fellow says because they've not been caught doing anything. Ok fine. On the face of it that makes sense. BUT does that now mean that Al Qaeda can set up a branch office here because they as yet haven't been caught doing terror things here? No? Does it mean Hizbollah can set up a Canadian branch office here.. because they haven't been caught doing stuff? How about the Tamil Tigers (if there's any left alive)? How about the Iranian Revolutionary Guards? How about.. etc., etc., etc. And if not, why not? Is fair not fair? Goose, gander, all that? And why not?
And speaking of this, how can this Repudiman guy over here that blew up an airplane and killed 300 folks.. women and children.. still walks free? They won't even let Mr. Galway in to give a little talk, but this Repudiman and these JDL guys walk free?
I'm tellin' ya, folks. I just don't get it.
Yes, I'm sure that Bernie Farber would be consistent about the "right to exist" of an Al Qaeda Canada or a Hamas Canada as long they haven't yet committed any crimes.
The vast majority of York students are on Facebook I'm sure - and Hillel at York has something like 400 members. There is quite a bit of overlap even though Hillel has some moderate members while Hasbara is made up entirely of zealots.
I realize Hillels do often serve a relatively apolitical social purpose for Jewish students - but I would assume that is more the case in places like Halifax or Kingston rather than in Toronto which has a very large Jewish population.
When Hillel calls out Jewish students to fight against anti-Israel forces or whatever, they cannot attracts anywhere near 3000 students. Their hardcore active members number in the hundreds - which is significant nowhere nearly the majority of Jewish students.
Am I missing something...I thought JDL was labeled a terrorist group.?
Not by either the U.S. or the Canadian governments. The FBI have several times -- in a 2000 report and in congressional testimony -- referred to actions of the JDL as terrorist, but I don't believe that the group has been listed.
Then I too am confused. Haven't a few babblers been basing their arguments on the fact that the JDL have been labeled a terrorist group? In fact at least one poster has claimed that the JDL was convicted of a crime. I never knew an organization could be so convicted.. I do believe that organizations can be constituted criminal. Has the JDL been constituted criminal? If so then there is something to go on here.
I'm not sure who else you're referring to, Jaku, but I have certainly followed the FBI's lead in calling actions of the JDL terrorist, and I intend to continue.
As you may know, the political party Kach is banned in Israel (or was -- haven't kept up with that). Meir Weinstein has spoken as the Canadian representative of Kach, refusing, eg, to condemn the massacre in Hebron (see his wiki entry). I don't know whether the U.S. or Canada have listed Kach.
Skdadl, I support all that you're saying, but it's instructive to look at the discourse here and how it evolves.
JDL Canada is no "terrorist group" (so far as we know - yet), and of course no one here has said it is (despite the relentless efforts of Jaku & others). It is, however, racist, fascist, pro-imperialist, and other appropriate adjectives - it openly celebrates the lives and opinions of pro-terrorists and arch-racists like Meir Kahane - and it seems prone to bullying, aggression, intimidation, and violent behaviour. Jaku and his cronies would like to divert the discussion into whether it should be "banned" from campuses, or whether it is "criminal" or "terrorist". Why? So they can avoid having to answer a simple question:
Why does the CJC work overtime to publicly discredit and marginalize responsible democratic Jewish voices like IJV, but is unwilling or unable to publicly condemn the monsters of JDL as a blight on the Jewish community?
Prophit, do you have any insight as to why CJC condemns IJV but not JDL? My view is that such behaviour is harmful to Jews, isolates them, associates them with the most extreme right-wing and xenophobic trends - to the extent anyone sees the CJC as the spokesperson for the Jewish community, which clearly the United Church and others do, and clearly the CJC presents itself that way.
You can belittle and dismiss this as a "solidarity test", but surely it is no more than an exchange of views as to which direction Jews in Canada should take on many issues of fundamental importance.
Unionist, my view is that CJC pays absolutely no attention to the JDL. It is a group that has little traction either in the jewish community or within the general Canadian community.
IJV on the other hand, has tried to insinuate itself into the largest Protestant church in canada as a legitimate player within the general Jewish community. It tries to be something it is not. My guess for what its worth.