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I'll stop when I get an explanation. If Jaku and you are going to come here and softsoap the CJC then you're going to have to expect to be asked questions rather than get a free ride.
IJV doesn't claim to speak for all Canadian Jews whilst CJC (and BBC for that matter) both do to the extent of trying to silence the increasing number of Canadian Jews who disagree.
Do you think it's legitimate for Bnai Brith Canada to claim they speak for the Jewish community? Is it legitimate for CJC to do this? Indeed can any one group claim to speak for Canadian Jews?
What I see is that anytime anyone comes here and supports the mainstream Jewish community, some posters immediatley label them as CJC trolls or supporters and all kinds of demands are made. Can they just not have an opionon without being labeled? I belong to no one and support who I want when I want or is that no longer permissable?
What utter bullshit. Someone comes on here to defend CJC actions, and others question them on those actions. No one called anyone a troll. Your diversionary crap is rejected with utter contempt. Deal with the issue, or take your character assassination elsewhere.
By the way, for anyone who missed it so far, MAINSTREAM is an ugly code word patented by the pro-Israel lobbies to marginalize and dehumanize all Jews of conscience. Just make a mental note beside any post that uses that lying term. It's from the handbook.
Gus, you have evidently missed part of the conversation. In an earlier discussion Jaku stated that she was a Canadian Jewish Congress delegate to the second last World Jewish Congress while Prophit boasted of working in the same building as the CJC and of having run up stairs to get their point of view on one issue or another. Given that information I think it's fair to say both of them are CJC supporters and therefore it's fair to ask them to explain the CJC's positions. Indeed, as both of them have invoked their association with the CJC in order to give weight to one or other argument they were making it's certainly perfectly fair to treat them as CJC supporters who have privileged access to the organization and are in a good position to answer questions at least until Bernie Farber opens a babble account in his own name.
Do you realise that by saying this you've bought into the Zionist line that Hamas and Hezbollah are "terrorist" groups rather than legitimate resistance organizations?
Does anyone really think that either of these groups will do anything in Canada? Did Russian partisans or French Maquisards leave home to attack their occupiers in, say Mexico?
Yes I did miss that. I'm sorrry but my position still stands.
I have been to the Jewish Community Centre in Toronto where the CJC is housed. There are many Jewish communal organizations in that building with probably hundreds of workers. I would venture to guess that not all of them are CJC supporters, though I would also suggest that many thousands of Canadian jews support CJC. It takes (yes Unionist I am borrowing from the "Zionist advocacy handbookp) a very mainstream approach that is why it gets the support not only of mainstream Jews but all the political parties, much of Canadian media and the general Canadian public.
As for Jaku attending a World Jewish Congress event with the CJC, yes i suppose like many others over the years that have attended CJC sponsored plenaries, meetings, conclaves, speeches, etc she could be considered a supporter. Then again so would tens of thousands who have also been in some way associated with CJC. Doesnt mean they answer for everything CJC does or says. If you want answers write or email cjc. Check out their website, pretty easy to do.
More diversionary nonsense. If someone here supports an NDP or Liberal position, we can't debate it - we have to write to the NDP or the Liberals or check their websites? Spoken like an actual paid functionary - though far be it from me to launch any accusations.
So you're suggesting I should be open to the possibility that even though Prophit defends the CJC at ever opportunity and pops upstairs to chat she's not a supporter? Fine. If Prophit announces that she is in fact not a supporter of the CJC then I will certainly believe her. Indeed, I expect that over time fewer and fewer Canadian Jews will want to be associated with the CJC or have people think they support it so I would see such a pronouncement from Prophit as a portent of things to come and will certainly welcome it.
Until then I think it's perfectly acceptable to ask her and Jaku to explain the CJC's benign neglect of JDL (if you call kibbitzing over coffee in a well frequented public cafe in Thornhill benign neglect) counterposed against their aggressive attacks on IJV.
I can only speak for myself since I do not belong to any CJC committee and I have already made my point clear on both IJV and JDL.
I am not sure what you are talking about when you mention coffeee at a well-known Thornhill cafe. I frequent Thornhill cafes too and have seen many people there so what...I will need some clarification there.
Unionist, last I looked CJC was not a political party. Therefore in order to get oinions of CJC you need to ask their committee members. Simply attending a CJC event does not make me a "member" of their Board or any pf their committees.
I'm not interested in asking CJC for its opinions - its public words and deeds are self-explanatory. I'm interested in what babblers think about those actions of the CJC.
I'll share a particular concern with you. I'm very worried about the Jewish people being connected with the likes of Harper and Jason Kenney and Peter Kent and Netanyahu and the JDL and B'nai Brith and Bush and Blair... Besides the obvious fact that these are among the darkest forces facing us today, such identification will necessarily provide cover and pretext for antisemitism and expose Jews to peril in various parts of the world. I selfishly believe that the security of the Jewish people lies, not in geographic/ethnic isolation, military might, and alliance with warmongers, but rather in solidarity with the plight of our friends and neighbours, whether in Canada or the Middle East or anywhere. That's why I regard the actions of Israel with horror, as I do those of its craven apologists.
No one cares whom you speak for. Don't flatter yourself. It's your own personal opinions and stands that matter on this discussion board. Get a grip.
I honestly have no clue what you are writing about. Declining support? I guess you missed the CJC's May 09 plenary that saw almost 700 Jews from all across Canada come to debate issues. And oh yes for an organization with such "declining support" it managed to attract the Prime Minister, the leader of the Official opposition, the Federal NDP leader, the leader of the Green Party and the Vice Prime Minister of Israel. Declining support indeed.
And honestly "inside jokes" are childish.
aka Mycroft you are starnge indeed...Im talking about CJC and you are talking about UJA...hard night last night?
Jaku, you know as well as I do that UJA is related to the CJC and that both are funded through what is essentailly their parent organization, CIJA. In any case, there has been a decline in support from the Jewish community for these so-called "mainstream" institutions. However, if you want to post the number of individuals who have contributed money to the CJC for each of the past 10 years then go ahead.
"As I know" this is a joke right? What I know is that CIJA certainly does not fund UJA. What you know about how the Jewish community operates can fit in a thimble it seems.
And anyone who steps out of line slightly, like the United Church, has to be publicly called back to order.
But what is more important is which Jews see the Jewish Congress as their representative. As the CJC's policies become more reactionary, closer to Harper, and friendlier to Likud, they will find to their chagrin that the Jewish people will not follow them down that path.
So you're saying CJC and UJA have no relationship? Really?
Harper and Iggy also pander to Bnai Brith Canada and the Tories seem to favour BBC. Does that mean BBC is more representative than CJC? Certainly Frank Dimant seems to think so:)
Anywyay, just because political leaders in this country still seem to think that "ethnic" groups vote as a bloc and all you need to do to get their votes is pander to the self-appointed leaders of a community doesn't make it so.
If Canadian Jews neglected to vote as a bloc for the Tories when so-called Jewish leaders were praising Harper as a modern-day Raoul Wallenberg, it's pretty clear that there is far more diversity among "mainstream Jews" in their political opinions than you'll find at CJC.
There are a lot of Jewish people in my riding, and most as far as I know vote NDP. But I don't think Jack Layton speaking at the CJC plenary helps deliver the NDP "Jewish votes" and I'm not sure if Olivia Chow being a UJA fundraiser does much either.
Just noticed this thread. Closing for length.