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Syndicate
In some respects, I feel better when I harm myself.
Is society fascist for wanting to prevent me from slashing my wrists?
Do the police have a duty of care?
Is my capacity diminished?
And who is qualified to make that assessment?
I hope you're at PsychOUT in May. I'm presenting "BC's Mental Health Act & the Lunatics' Case For Its Repeal." Again.
I never claimed to know what's best for anyone. I merely stated that I think deep consideration is important, especially for adolescents, and then I later qualified that with issues that I overlooked.
Now, if you call that defensive....
JM, I don't believe you're being defensive.
I think you might be horrified at the tragedy of the DSM V, that's all.
Flagged as transphobic. I think that transphobia is tragedy.
Yeah, I read what you wrote. Your continued instistance that people are just having surgery and taking hormones will-nilly like it's some kind of fad is offensive. As is infering that trans activists are pushing surgery and hormones on kids, as Sineed did. Can you imagine saying the same thing about abortions, as if women just whip in and have it done on a whim? Are feminists going around covincing young women to have abortions? That's what anti-choice people say. That's why I told you that you sound like them and yes it is defensive to re-state your point as if i missed something.
RTTG - I'm sorry for what has happened in this thread. I take some of the responsibility for calling out these transphobes and not just flagging their posts and ignoring them. I think it's a really interesting article and thanks for sharing it with us in what is evidently a transphobic, unsafe space.
I think you're mind is a tragedy, Le T.
If I'm transphobic, I'm also homophobic & racist & a whole bunch of other things.
You have to learn to Deal With Your Hypocrisy.
...and the ability to afford it.
I don't think the right to sexual-reassignment can ever be universal (outside of developed states).
Further, I find it hard to believe that there is some grand injustice in countries where this modern science isn't praciticed, as if the ability to physically change one's body through these procedures is a God-given right. It is rife with ethical dilemna and assumes that there is a teleology to trans issues.
I acknowledge that transpeople who live in squatters don't have access to these procedures, but are we going to close soup kitchens so that they can have their procedure? Sorry, Jhonny, but Ximena doesn't want to grow up with a penis and broad shoulders, so we decided to cut funding to the comedor popular and you can't have your potato soup anymore. (Flag as offensive if you will, and come live with me and my family a block away from the soup kitchen where the urban poor who are trying to scrape by don't have access to affordable food or health care).
Let the typoes begin.
That's right, JM.
You have to want it enough to purchase it.
Just like Starbucks.
I will never support the waste of public money.
Not on trans gender issues. Not on mental health issues, either.
I am a true pro choicer.
A capitalist.
Who read Atlas Shrugged & thinks Ayn Rand's mockable.
If I like your product, I will purchase same.
Society Be Damned.
Okay, I didn't actually read Atlas Shrugged.
But I talked to an intelligent person who did.
And I purchased it.
Because I heard it's worth reading.
Support amazon.ca
Everybody knows Alan Dershowitz is a sanctimonious git & that The Fink Rules.
Still, read Goldhagen, so you can comport yourself effectively in a debate.
Then read "Nation on Trial" by The Fink & Thank Your Lucky Stars we have free speech (sort of) in this fine country of ours.
Why not support a trans gender foundation, then?
I support humane slaughter. I really do.
So does Temple Grandin.
So does anybody who is swayed by Dr. Grandin.
You won't "win" this one, Le T. Not up against me, you won't. At best, you can pray the thread gets closed.
You can kill me but you'll never shut me up.
Le T, I'm sorry you feel offended by my positions, but I think adopting your positions is very Western-centric and involves uncritical support of the "flawless politics" of the trans community. Yes, I think there is something to support, and I get that in the context of developed countries with considerable wealth that these are possibilities, but why so eager to push the point of hasty adoption of permanent procedures as if it is an inherent necessity without question (I take it that's why there is attack over my "rumination" comment)?
Again, for like the fucking hundreth time, no one is pushy for the "hasty adoption of permanent procedures". I am telling you that you do not get to police tran people's bodies. You don't know better. Your insight is not enlightening. You are using your CIS-privilege to say that trans people should only do certain things until you and other cisgendered people are suficiently convinced that these people are really trans.
I'm done with this thread. Sorry again RTTG.
Really? So I didn't read the advocacy to teenagers "if you "feel" trans now, you better start taking hormones and go through SRS" in any of the previous posts? If that wasn't other people's intentions, then I apologize for my interpretations.
No, you're thinking of the strawperson that you and Sineed created. I did read RTTG telling you that people don't "feel" trans they know they are, as RTTG knew and then you not accepting that and continuing to infer that there is some major problem of young people who are not trans having hormones and surgery pushed on them by trans people. Which sounds a hell of a lot like teachers turning kids gay, feminists forcing women to have abortions or any number of other fear mongering tropes made by biggots.
You're missing the point that these procedures have long-term consequences, especially during puberty, which is all the more reason to think them over (whether or not people know they are trans).
The hasty treatment argument has to hide certain facts, or minimize them through statements like this:
So, because gender-as-sex is a problem, it is okay to freely and uncritically tell people to go through transition at puberty. It's like saying "well, advocating for abortions for anyone who wants one is okay and if people regret their decision it's no different than the people regretting their decision not to abort". These sorts of arguments absolve everyone of responsibility for their advocacy on the basis that other's/society's positions are irresponsible, too. Sorry, but I don't think marginal progressive positions are going to gain the upper hand by playing into the very same hypocritical and irresponsible position that social conservatives take.
I know the benefits of self-mutilation (in terms of the feelings afterwards and as a way of coping with problems) but I am not going to tell others "go carte blanche on yourself because you CAN" or that "this is absolutely the right choice for you". I wish some "anti-choice asshole biggot" could have told me of all the problems with it, even if he/she had no right to take the razor out of my hand.
Or that doctor who prescribed me Accutane because I wanted acne free skin at 14? Yeah, those anti-choicers were wrong not to tell me about the long-term risks of depression and suicidal ideation.
This thread has gone off the rails, and I really don't know how it can be fixed.
So before I close it, a reminder that without having actual lived experience and I'm not implying that all trans folks have the same experiences of course, anyone who doesn't identify as trans, or gender-identity-questioning, is a learner in this discussion. That includes me, by the way.
Yes everyone can all share ideas and have opinions, but the reason that trans issues are done so badly on babble is that there are so few trans folks here, perhaps due to the history. The cycle continues.
I enjoy and respect all babblers who've posted to this thread, and am just getting to know Red Tory Tea Girl. There's been problematic language used by many here, and I don't plan to go through and admonish everyone. I'm not a schoolmarm.