Is it time to give up on Nazi war criminals in Canada?

Um, Unionist, I wasn't mainly writing about the situation with the transfer of prisoners in Afghanistan, although I mentioned it. I was talking about major cases, where CSIS and DFAIT have played games in the interrogation of rendered or illegally imprisoned persons, or where they have used tainted evidence in court.

 

I agree with you that aggressive war is also the worst of the war crimes, but there is absolutely no way to play down what CSIS have been authorized to do over the last nine years imho. Bagram, GTMO, Syria, Egypt, Pakistan, places we don't know about ...  And then the use in Canadian courts of evidence extracted from people interrogated in all those places and more. Tell me those are little crimes.

Skdadl - you are correct - I concede your point unconditionally. I was only expressing my own frustration about the detainee debate, where certain political leaders find a way to avoid addressing the underlying problem - they even turn it into "respect for parliament" and other diversionary nonsense. That's what got me to focus on one narrow point. There is no way I would minimize the crimes you alluded to - just take the interrogation of Omar Khadr as a flagrant example.

 

This is a joke right? You actually believe that Gus Williams trolled this, then called all his buddies (home on a Saturday just waiting for the grand conspiracy) to join in on the fun? Michelle, you need a vacation.

"Divert, distract, diffuse, dement, delude, disinform, don't let them get near the truth" what are you babbling about? Williams posed a question on Nazi war criminals. A fair question that many people talk about. No hidden agenda from what any normal person can see. If you believe in conspiracies you can see fireflies in your shit.

 

Unionist is it not possible that the question was the question? Or are you so singularly focused on Israel as bad that you can see absolutely nothing else?

Jaku, if the question was the question, how does "this got me thinking" accord with Gus's later line, "I simply cannot imagine, not for one moment, that any true progressive thinker would want to end the search for Nazi war criminals in Canada"?

 

That was Michelle's point. Gus's thoughts are shorter than one moment? It takes me longer than "one moment" to type out a comment here. How could Gus not have short-circuited himself before he got to the end of the OP if his later comment is sincere?

Skdadl, who knows...maybe it was a set-up question, maybe he was thinking about it, was convinced at one time then wavered, hell who cares? All I'm suggesting is that the question is legit and that a couple people answered stupidly was a bit of a surprise but it should not have derailed the question. For any part I played in that I apologize. But the suggestion that we "trolls' set this up for something is ridiculous.

 

I obviously don't think you're trivializing, LP. I recognize that the running discussion between Unionist and me is maybe drift, given the OP. If a mod wants us to stop, I will. I mean no disrespect.

 

I think about war crimes almost full time, although I'm no encyclopedia -- obviously, I think about the ones that are right in front of me, and these days, those tend to be U.S., Canadian, British, and ... well, other. Torture is my subcategory, which is why I don't go too far into the other.

 

But gimme a war crime, and I'll think about it.

When you can walk up to the vanguard and declare everyone there out to lunch, Prophit, you should yourself find a quiet spot for serious reflection...out of the sun.

Thomas, you're right. Most news from Africa gets too little play in the Western press. I didn't know about Mpiranya, eg, although I suspect there are a couple of good reporters at least at the Globe and Mail who do. They sometimes get their chance in the paper, but it's hard for any of them to do sustained work.

 

I would look to the blogosphere, actually, to find groups active in following these stories. That's where I do most of my torture studies, mine concentrated on what has radiated out from the imperial centre of the moment -- ie, the U.S. It's difficult to get any of our own stories covered regularly in Canada unless we've got a court case going -- the British press are much better, although they have courts that have kept going more aggressively too.

 

 

My apologies had to take my very sick pup to the emergency animal clinic yesterday and spent much of the evening nursing her back to health....let me first dispel Michelle's rather starnge supposition that somehow this thread was a setup for my friends to do ...well...Im not sure what...but there is no truth to the allegation none whatsoever...though Michelle continue to use your imagination its very fertile.

Yes i am confused on this matter. Yes I always held that no matter what we should go after war criminals...then I began to question myself especially given the article I posted. I was conflicted...who hasn't been and why should this have become fodder for speculation that I was setting something up?

Skdadl, Thomas and others have helped focus me a bit...we can never lose sight of such crimes...we will never eradicate human evil doesn't mean we give up.

P.S. For what it's worth, I hope your sick pup is feeling better soon. 

That's all right, I'm willing to take one for the team on this one.  Go ahead and flag my post. 

All I did was quote his posts, which completely contradicted each other, and connect the dots.  In one post, he claimed to be confused and thinking maybe it wasn't worth it, and in another he claimed that anyone who is progressive should never give up on the search for war criminals.

So why don't you tell me, Jaku, since you have so much invested in defending Gus's honour: was he misrepresenting his real opinion in the opening post:

or was he misrepresenting his real opinion a few hours later in post 13:

For me the fallacy here is the strawman that Michelle has setup despite the fact that Gus Williams has denied the allegations. The claim that Gus somehow got all his buddies to come on Babble and play along is the strawman to which I refer. When Unionist (only as an example) posits one of his "israel/Palestinian" theories and LP or AlQbong or Skdadl or any of the others come on to support him I have not seen Michelle make similar allegations. No she needs to st up Gus to blow him away. While it may be true that I have supported some of Gus Williams' positions I don't see why that is any different than NODifference coming here to support contrariana...its called debate, discussion agree disagree...difference is Michelle is so cocksure its all a conspiracy when people with whom she philosophically and politically disagrees with do the same.

Michelle, Gus explained it himself fer cissakes!!! You just refuse to believe him...easier to call him a liar than accept the fact that he is very conflicted. I know you don't want people like Gus (or me ) here because we don't very well conform to your idea of left politics. So calling people like Gus and others liars or making up allegations against them hoping they will be embarassed is just another way that you hope they will go away. I hope he has thicker skin.

And now I see we are also back on the theme of Canadian soldiers and politicians committing war crimes in Afganistan. I hate this war but using the blanket label of suggesting that Canadians are commiting crimes against humanity in Afganistan to argue against the war is absurd.

"It is not for me to decide whether Canada's Defence Minister and Chief of Defence Staff are war criminals. But the news reports and applicable rules of international law certainly suggest that possibility.."

Dr. Michael Byers, Canada Research Chair in Global Politics and International Law, UBC