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iPods made by iKids

Doug
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Joined: Apr 17 2001

That's just the beginning, there's also safety problems, extremely long working hours and low pay even by Chinese standards.

Apple admits using child labour


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Michelle
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Joined: May 10 2001
Whoa. That's huge.

Michelle
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Joined: May 10 2001
One thing I find interesting from the report is that it comes from Apple's own annual report on its sourcing. It sounds like they're trying to enforce certain labour standards on their suppliers, and that they're reporting every year on how they're doing. The source for these allegations are Apple's own reports, and it looks to me, from the way this article is reported, that Apple is attempting to regulate themselves and be open about the results. I don't know if this is true or not, but that's the impression I get from this article. It would also be interesting to see whether any of its competitors is any better. Where are PCs made? Any child labour involved? I'm betting they're made in the same factories, and I'm betting that the companies that make them aren't being transparent about the labour conditions, either.

E.Tamaran
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Joined: Oct 17 2009

I remember Rabble giving ipods away as gifts.


NorthReport
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Joined: Jul 6 2008

Blackberries, not picked by children!


Doug
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Joined: Apr 17 2001

NorthReport wrote:

Blackberries, not picked by children!

 

Do we know that, though? It's not like they're assembled in Waterloo.


Doug
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Joined: Apr 17 2001

It's good that Apple is reporting and acting on this, however, it would be nice if they examined this before they chose subcontractors as well as after.


Michelle
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Joined: May 10 2001
E.Tamaran wrote: ----------- I remember Rabble giving ipods away as gifts. ----------- I don't think there are any electronics anywhere that aren't tainted by bad labour practices, or if there are, I'm not aware of them. Although the digital restrictions management is an issue that I'd also raise regarding Apple products. E.Tamaran, just curious - what kind of computer are you using to read babble and do other online stuff? I'm assuming it's one that you were very careful to ensure was made by unionized North Americans, right?

E.Tamaran
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Joined: Oct 17 2009

Michelle, you've fallen into the "oh well everybody does it" trap. Just because "every" piece of electronics has child labor in it doesn't mean it's ok for a progressive organization like Rabble to give it away as a prize. Did you consider perhaps, instead of a blood Ipod giving away a piece of FN art. That would have helped to support a native artist and it would have no child labor inputs.


Michelle
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Joined: May 10 2001
Good point. I'll bring it up the next time we discuss a fundraising drive. Is it okay for a progressive person to use electronics that have child labour in them, though? Especially one who makes a point of being critical of others for using them?

E.Tamaran
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Joined: Oct 17 2009

Michelle wrote:
Good point. I'll bring it up the next time we discuss a fundraising drive. Is it okay for a progressive person to use electronics that have child labour in them, though? Especially one who makes a point of being critical of others for using them?

Michelle, assuming that you're refering to me with your statement above, I don't use any products that I know have child labor in them. You should take back your vicious claim that I do!


Frustrated Mess
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Joined: Feb 23 2005

It"s not a vicious claim is a debating tactic. And applying your logic, Rabble at the time they gave away the iPods was not aware of the issues associated with them. Do you think they should express retroactive guilt?


Michelle
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Joined: May 10 2001
I didn't accuse you of anything. I asked you what kind of computer you're using and whether you researched before buying it whether there was any sort of child labour involved in the production of it. You didn't answer, although you were quite quick to be critical of others, and to say that just because everyone's doing it, that's no excuse for rabble to do it. So, since you're clearly using a computer to type this, I'm just wondering whether the same applies to you, unless, of course, you've found a computer manufacturer that uses no overseas sweatshop labour. If you have, I'd love to hear about it, because I sincerely do feel bad about using electronics made by sweatshop labour - but I also don't know of any other choice, beyond not using any electronics at all. I'd be happy to hear about alternatives you might have found, however.

E.Tamaran
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Joined: Oct 17 2009

I'm not a computer whiz, but it says Cicero, Intel PIII, running windows Xp. Made in Burnaby BC.


Frustrated Mess
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Joined: Feb 23 2005

I can assure you, with a PIII, most components are from China with the memory probably from Taiwan. It was assembled in BC.


Michelle
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Joined: May 10 2001
And probably the same with my Dell. And my ACER before that. Sigh. None of us is pure, and I'm sincere when I say that it sucks that we can't be. I wonder if there would be a market for computers made in Canada under proper labour standards? Would they be THAT much more expensive? How much of a mark-up do companies like Apple add to their computers that they get some kid to manufacture and put together for 50 cents an hour or whatever?

Frustrated Mess
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Joined: Feb 23 2005

There is no way, due to economies of scale, that a Canadian computer would be competitive.


Papal Bull
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Joined: Oct 7 2004

Michelle wrote:
I wonder if there would be a market for computers made in Canada under proper labour standards? Would they be THAT much more expensive? How much of a mark-up do companies like Apple add to their computers that they get some kid to manufacture and put together for 50 cents an hour or whatever?

 

It would be very, very, very expensive. Canada doesn't exactly have the infrastructure to start building all the parts that are necessary for any one component of a computer to be mass produced in the quantities that would make it a viable business. It is really expensive to build a facility to produce a lot of those parts. Plus, you'd have to source your stuff throughout the world to make sure that good labour practises were followed in the raw production and shipment of materials. And with a mark up like that, a company would be hardpressed to find investors...or customers. I need my own computer, but there is no way in hell that I could ever afford one

 

With the way the world works, you have to understand what goes into every single tiny, itsy bitsy component of your computer or blissfully wish away what goes into allowing our pampered asses to write out each of these posts. Every time your fingers push down a key, you're pressing a blood key, sending an electric signal through a blood connecting cord to a blood CPU, GPU, RAM, hard drive, and having that be worked over by tons of blood capacitors and resistors, etc. There is no sense pulling a 'holier than thou' stance and being critical of others unless you've never, ever owned or operated a computer.


Frustrated Mess
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Joined: Feb 23 2005

Or pretty much anything else.


Sven
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Joined: Jul 22 2005

E.Tamaran wrote:

I remember Rabble giving ipods away as gifts.

I'm sure some of the electricity being used to make rabble.ca available is generated with non-renewable power, too.

I guess we'll have to shut rabble.ca down.


radiorahim
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Joined: Jun 17 2002

E.Tamaran wrote:

I'm not a computer whiz, but it says Cicero, Intel PIII, running windows Xp. Made in Burnaby BC.

 

BTW E. Tamaran if you want to be on the side of the angels, you shouldn't be running Windows XP or any Microsoft or Apple operating system.   You should be using a GNU/Linux operating system...one that is "free as in freedom".   That's something that you DO have control of.

 


Le T
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Joined: Oct 17 2004

radiorahim: preacher of the open source Laughing


KeyStone
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Joined: Apr 23 2008

Let's all just kill ourselves so we can be absolutely certain we aren't aiding and abetting evil any further.


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

There are more than 1.3 billion people in China, and you say there are 25 children working "somewhere" there in iPod factories? Does the government in Beijing know about this? Have Apple execs notified anyone in China?


Frustrated Mess
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Joined: Feb 23 2005

KeyStone wrote:

Let's all just kill ourselves so we can be absolutely certain we aren't aiding and abetting evil any further.

Sure. You go first.


radiorahim
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Joined: Jun 17 2002

Le T wrote:

radiorahim: preacher of the open source Laughing

Thread drift...slightly...preacher of free software

Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software

 


Le T
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Joined: Oct 17 2004

yeah sorry, open source just sounded more evangelical.


West Coast Greeny
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Joined: Sep 14 2004

Michelle wrote:
Good point. I'll bring it up the next time we discuss a fundraising drive. Is it okay for a progressive person to use electronics that have child labour in them, though? Especially one who makes a point of being critical of others for using them?

That's somewhat unavoidable, isn't it? Like it was said, a computer manufactured to Canadian standards is not competitive. That doesn't mean progressive consumers can do nothing though. I think its the role of the progressive consumer to try to aim for purchasing the product manufactured to the "least worst" standard. Its the role of the progressive NGO (and arguably, government) to inform the consumer which product is manufactured to the "least worst" standard. Then pressure is felt by corporations to clean up a little. Consumer boycotts don't always work, but they don't exactly always fail either.

Is it ethical to purchase an Ipod? Well, see if there's an alternative.


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

How  many more years will it be before countries like China start shipping their obsolete widgets, computer components and toxic waste to the west for recycling and "processing"?

When money arrives, all is green, bustle and abundance. And when it leaves, all is trampled down, barren and bare - old Chinese proverb

Where the military is, prices are high - even older Chinese proverb


radiorahim
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Joined: Jun 17 2002

West Coast Greeny wrote:

 

Is it ethical to purchase an Ipod? Well, see if there's an alternative.

It's pretty difficult to be ethical with regard to electronic hardware...it's pretty much all made in sweatshops.

It is possible to be ethical about the software.   Apple tries its best to make sure that iPods only talk to its proprietary "iTunes" software which is only available for non-free operating systems like MacOSX and Microsoft Windows.

A number of audio players make use of Microsoft's "MTP" protocol to transfer files  between your computer and your audio device.  I've run into this with some players made by Creative.   This means you can only "talk" to these devices with a Microsoft Windows operating system.

Other players make use of MTP, but allow you to turn it off so that your computer sees it as a "mass storage device".

I would avoid any portable players that force you to make use of either iTunes or the MTP protocol.

I would also try to purchase media players that allow you to play media in non-patented free media formats like ogg vorbis and FLAC.

I have one Samsung player that plays ogg vorbis files and a player made by Cowon that plays both ogg vorbis and FLAC files.   FLAC by the way is the "free lossless audio codec"...you get full CD quality audio in a compressed file format...mind you the files are rather large!


Lard Tunderin Jeezus
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Joined: Aug 27 2001

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