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Syndicate
N.Beltov -No Israel does not have the right to terminate Palestinians, just as Palestinians have no right to walk into a market and blow themselves up killing and maming civilians. It sounds like you endorse the actions of extremists though. Both sides of the conflict are guilty of everything you say, yet I never hear both sides being criticized equally over their actions.
Sorry, I couldn't hear you over my CHARTER OF RIGHTS. LOSER!!!!!!!!! WTFUWT comment.
Milo 204 answered the question. Now how do we get Israel and Arabs to that point? Maybe make Jerusalum a city state like the Vatican?
So sad that those that disagree have to bring themselves down by name calling. That does not meet the creed of the tolerant left.I am sure Chester that devout Moslems would love to have the city turned over to them as a type of Vatican city. Did you miss the obvious difference that the Pope rules at the Vatican and does not share the city with any other religion?
The problem with your moral equivalency is that the Israeli army has always had at least a 10 to 1 kill ratio compared to suicide bombings. There are many Palestinians who have been killed by Israel that never had anything to do with suicide bombings or any armed faction. They too get murdered.
So why is it you endorse the actions of the Israeli government in its brutal occupation? Just because some old book says to smite the Cannonites and get your promised land doesn't mean there is a rational for theft of land and incarceration of a entire country in open air prisons.
By the way you never answered the simple question. Does Haida Gwaii have the right to exist?
I agree both sides have committed atrocities. No one side is innocent or more rightious than the other. There seems to be an acceptance by many who post her that Israel has no right to exist, that Israel is 100% at fault for this. I have yet to see anyone here condemn the actions of indiscrminant suicide killings.
Haida Gwaii, absolutely yes. If they want to be their own state let them, if we come to a negotiated settlement. Just as Quebec should have that right if a simple majority vote in favor.
You qualified your remark so I will agree with your statement with the qualification. I think Israel has a right to exist if it can come to a negotiated settlement.
There you see we do agree.
As for vilifying suicide bombers I don't think anyone needs my help. I prefer to vilify people who murder in my name instead. I condemn governments that invade countries and slaughter innocent civilians to bring them democracy. I condemn them because they claim they are acting on my behalf so far no suicide bomber has said they are fighting a holy war on my behalf.
kroptkin, thanx for the honesty. What if said suicide bomber blew himself up a a transit bus with your family on it? Your family obviously would not be combatants, but they attack them just because their/your idology is different than those that do the bombing.
In your opinion what justifies military intervention? The second Iraq, Vietnam wars were not justified in my opinion. 1st Iraq, Bosnia, WWII, Afganistan were they justified, or should the world have just sat back?
What if an Israeli missile killed your family?
The question is irrelevant and obfuscating of the real issue attacks which is attacks on civilians. State terrorism is no better than any other kind of terrorism except maybe it is more effective given most states who engage in it like Israel have far superior weaponry to the forces opposing them.
Iraq, Bosnia and Afghanistan are imperial wars that have inflicted unimaginable grieve and hardship on the civilians caught in the big powers war games. Oil Oil Oil Oil don't you get it?
Looks like some people need to check out hte latest in my Middle East Tutorial : the Miss Manners' Edition!
It may make you laugh!
Check it out:
http://middleeasttutorial.blogspot.comOr me out, at:
www.twitter.com/pax_101
Pax101 on Facebook.
The funny thing here is Matas had agreed a month or more ago to participate in a debate on campus with a Jewish anti-apartheid activist as part of IAW. He withdrew a week or so ago saying he is counsel to BBC and since they're opposing IAW he feels he can no longer participane and now he's the point man in denouncing IAW.
Hypocrite.
Reminds of how Matas praises the fact that Spanish courts have indicted Chinese government leaders over allegations that Falun Gong members are having their organs harvested while saying foreign courts shouldn't indict government officials over domestic policy when it comes to Israel.
I thought it was supposed to be anti-Semitic to argue that Israel should be treated differently than other countries?
Its funny how all the people who can bring themselves to say that Israel has a right to exist - have no problem at all saying that Tamil Ealam has a right to exist or that Tibet has a right to exidst or that an independent Quebec would have a right to exist if there was a majority Yes vote in a referendum - and i doubt if anyone would start having Quebecois Apartheid Week if an independent Quebec started bringing in stricter measures to maintain the "francophone character" of the Republic of Quebec. But I digress.
I think these people from B'nai B'rith and others are making a big mistake by going berserk over these IAW events. All they are doing is giving the events about a thousand times more publicity than they would otherwise have and the more people hear the words "Israel" and "apartheid" in the same sentence the more it will make it seem like a legitimate, debatable point. If I were advising B'nai B'rith, I would have told them to totally ignore IAW as much as possible and deprive it of the oxygen of publicity.
Not Apartheid? Really? What would you call it? I call it genocide.
Israeli Gov't allows Sale of Stolen Palestinian Land to Israelis
http://www.imemc.org/index.php?obj_id=53&story_id=58214
"The Israeli Justice Ministry has clarified its recent revision of Israeli land law, confirming that the revision allows the sale of Palestinian land in the West Bank and East Jerusalem to JEWISH CITIZENS OF ISRAEL, or to private companies.
90% of the land in Israel is owned by the Jewish National Fund and rented to JEWISH ONLY TENANTS. Much of the land under JNF control was illegally seized from the Indigenous Palestinian owners in 1948.."
South Africa: Was Natives Land Act SA's Original Political Sin
http://allafrica.com/stories/201003110294.html?viewall=1
"The 1913 Natives Land Act is considered by many people to be SA's original political sin. The act, which became law on 19 June, 1913, limited African land ownership to 7% (increased to 13% via the 1936 Native Trust and Land Act) of SA and barred Africans from buying land in 93% of SA set aside for white control.
It did this by enacting a legislative distinction between white owned areas and native reserves, also known as scheduled areas. It also introduced anti-squatting measures to put a stop to sharecroppers. FW De Klerk said in 1991 "to an agrarian community, whose entire economy and social structure was based on the distribution of land, DISPOSSESSION WAS AN ACT AKIN TO NATIONAL DESTRUCTION..."
the destruction and expulsion of Palestinians from their lands and homes is ongoing as we speak - it has not stopped or slowed - there really is no argument or rational defence against the actually existing ISRAELI APARTHEID. This is a fact that cannot be denied if anyone actually looks at what has, is and continues happening there. Only in another stupid settler state can IAW be challenged in the way it has here.
A New Hotbed of Hatred by Rosie Dimanno rdimann@thestar.ca
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/779944--dimanno-sweden-a-new-h...
"With the repugnantly named-and deliberately so - Israeli Apartheid Week behind us, it feels particularly correct to have taken a commentary pass on the annual hate-fest, since media focus is clearly one of the event's objectives.."
EU Found Guilty: Russell Tribunal
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article11135.shtml
"Two days and 21 expert witness testimonies later the RTP found individual states and the EU as a whole guilty of persistent violations and misconduct with regards to international and internal EU law, These included: assistance in perpetrating the crime of Apartheid--deepened in definition as applicable to the violation of the inalienable right of return for refugees and the collective punishment and ghettoization of Gaza; aiding the procurement of war crimes and crimes against humanity particularly with respect to Gaza; And violating the Palestinian right to self determination, aiding illegal colonization, the annexation of East Jerusalem adn theft of natural resources..'
It is abominable and disgusting that on a supposedly progressive board the holocaust denial of what is going on in Palestine to Palestinians is permitted to continue as if 60 years of this horror didn't and hasn't happened. Diabolical!
Leaving aside your incoherent first paragraph, Stockholm ... If you had been active in the original anti-Apartheid movement - as some of us babblers were - you would know that the pro-Apartheid cheerleaders got more and more "berserk" as the writing on the wall became clear to ever larger numbers of people.They tried all sorts of crap.
And I will tell you something else for free. As Canadians became more aware of the horrors of South African Apartheid they also became more aware of their own ugly history of assimilation and cultural genocide against First Nations right here in Canada. When we fight bigotry abroad then we do wonders for giving it a body blow right here at home.
Solidarity, it turns out, is also about doing ourselves a favour. Oh yea.
One day soon perhaps there will be a Canadian Apartheid Week because there is no doubt that Canada has achieved what the Zionist entity can only dream of..
I see that the pertinent point of the Russell Tribunal deliberations from the above piece to this thread was:
"The RTP's endorsement of Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) as a means to hold Israel and its collaborator states (CANADA!) accountable under international law was also a boost to Europe's civil society groups and prominent figures sitting on the fence about the tactic..."
someone should advise Harper, Kenney, Ignatieff, Di Novo and any of the other flunkies for Zionism that there could come a day when they might find themselves in the dock as well..
An important addition to this debate:
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/article/780297--cohn-apartheid-week-a-semantic-sideshow
"The real issue with Israeli Apartheid Week is not so much that it's argumentative or provocative or intellectually dishonest. What makes it so contentious is that it is, transparently, a branding exercise."
Thanks Jaku for pointing out that the debate over Israeli policies is really just a propaganda war. It was clear from this "unbiased" journalist that the propagandists are on the anti-Israel side. Good thing he said that because accusing Israel of using propaganda would invoke images of Nazis Germany and anyone who uses that imagery in relation to Israel would be anti-Semitic. Thanks for the clarification on who the good guys are in the debate.
I'll remember that "Israel is the only democracy in the middle east" and not pay attention to any of that propaganda stuff.
WTH is the reference to Israel as the "holy land" other than propaganda by a columnist who is pretending to give a balanced account.
BTW: Its not correct to say that Israel is the "only" democracy in the Middle East - one of the few yes, only no. Turkey is in the Middle East and is a democracy. Lebanon seems to have parliamentary elections....and what about Iraq?? If you buy the neo-con line - a war was fought to bring democracy to Iraq and now they have free multi-party elections there as we saw last week so isn't Iraq also a "democracy in the Middle East"?
Sorry I have to stop trying to be too cute by half. Of course the reason I put that lie in brackets was to highlight one of the main propaganda talking points from Israeli occupiers and their supporters. Yes it is absurd and I should have stated that but I presumed that most on this board would see it as absurd propaganda but recognize it as a statement that even appears on this board sometimes.
Stockholm, if you twist yourself into all sorts of contortions trying to make coherent and consistent the neo-con ideology then you're just going to injure yourself.
In regard to Iraq, it is a country that's been under occupation for over 7 years now. I don't really see how any serious observer can treat an "election" there other than with scare quotes as I have.
Gee you you just can't seem to take Yes for an answer. I'm agreeing with you here! I'm pointing out that a lot of people who keep telling us that Israel is the "only" democracy in the Middle East would also like us to believe that thanks to invasion - Iraq is now a democracy. They can't have it both ways.
k. fine. Don't say I didn't warn ya.
Unionist, just stop it!
How can you expect him to follow the CJC approved talking point flowchart, if you won't answer the simple question in the way it appears on his flowchart?
Vilifying Jews is Nothing New
http://www.torontosun.com/comment/columnists/lorrie_goldstein/2010/03/19...
another attack on "jew haters" and IAW
Is Israel an Apartheid State? [YES!]
http://www.creative-i.info/2010/03/19/is-israel-an-apartheid-state/
Summary of a legal study by Human Services Research Center of South Africa
Israel: Arab Family Denied Right to Rent Here
http://www.jkcook.net/Articles3/0467.htm#Top
Excellent letter to the editor of the Winnipeg Free Press:
Apartheid week fuelled discourse, not distortion
The original was signed by Dr Marc Etkin, Dr Mark Golden, Dr Cy Gonick (yes, of Canadian Dimension fame), and Dr Adrian Fine of the IAW Organizing Committee, Winnipeg.
facebook group - I support the right to speak out against Apartheid