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I don't remember. I've blocked it all out! ;)
Prophit's just as full of it now as he and his pals were in the other thread last year on this particular issue. Might be interesting to continue the conversation in the other thread, where the details are laid out for all to read.
yeah, go use it as your litter box, shoooo shoooo
Read her column and tell me where it says she saw him at the parade. You won't find it at least I never did. In fact she doesn't even ever mention the t-shirt until another blogger noticed it.
Michelle, there will be nothing in the other threads that will contradict this...and yes I agree the entire thing was ridiculous from both sides.
Enough. Damn. Drift.
Argh!
And yeah, oldgoat, this is all your frikkin' fault.
Barbara Kay jumps on the anti-QuAIA bandwagon.
City bureaucrats may withdraw funding from Pride Toronto next year if the activist group Queers Against Israeli Apartheid is allowed to march in this summer’s Pride parade.
The city, which gave Pride $121,000 in 2009, believes its anti-discrimination policy was likely violated by QuAIA’s conduct and very presence at last summer’s parade, said general manager of economic development and culture Mike Williams. If Pride were to permit another violation, Williams said, there could be “very serious” repercussions.
I'm thinking it's probably a good idea to drop a note to your city councillor if you live in Toronto.
Does that mean:
1. You're gay?; or
2. You stole Bernie's T-shirt?; or
3. You are Bernie?
ETA: Sorry for the drift. I have a question. Why does Pride Toronto need all that municipal funding? Just wondering. I don't know what they do other than organize Pride Week. Maybe if they weren't beholden to city council, they could be more forthright in telling censors to shove it.
I fail to see how the expression Israeli Apartheid is discriminatory.
The interesting comments of Tracey Sandilands, Pride executive director:
These are very diplomatic comments, which could be preparatory to banning QuAIA - not because of financial threats, but because we "NOW" have been told that it's not just the name which is offensive, but it makes certain participants uncomfortable, and that violates the anti-discrimination policy.
Very unfortunate statement. Sounds as if this battle is lost before it begins. Public funding is a two-edged sword, isn't it.
really?
I have now attended Pride Parades in five countries, on three continents. They are about unity, for me, not divisiveness. Anything that can cause division or discomfort should not be allowed, anything that might discourage people from attending what is after all a giant party should be unwelcome.
Well I hope that when the people in TO are done reducing the message to only certain issues they stop using the Rainbow symbol. I had this half baked idea the Rainbow was meant to symbolize the inclusiveness of the movement and its solidarity with other anti-oppression movements.
It is almost like the City of TO is saying your not oppressed anymore so we only want to have a Santa Claus style parade that highlights the capitalists who are trying to attract LBGT business. The last time I went to a Pride Parade in Vancouver I was distressed that it seemed to mostly be business floats poorly done with people riding on them who may or may not be employees of the business being promoted and who may or may not if they are employees think they have a choice as a member of the LBGT community to attend and promote their employers business .
Do you mean Benjamin Netanyahu and his cabinet would be discouraged from attending the parade? Who is exactly being discriminated against, Lily_C?
um ... Israelis?
But that's not really the point. Pride is about celebrating LGBTQ culture.
Kropotkin, it's sad you felt the parade had been hijacked, but many of us are business people too! I didn't attend there so I can't comment.
The problem I had was not with the small LBGT friendly businesses, in fact their floats showed some effort. It was all the banks etc that had floats that were basically a pick up with their logo and some message saying they are inclusive. It was not particularly bad just rather boring and mundane. Dykes on Bikes was by far the best part of the Parade.
I wondered that too. Why not just decline funding with unacceptable strings attached? Self-reliance builds pride and freedom from censors.
Yeah, I don't really get that either. But there have been a lot of complaints over the years about how commercialized and corporate Pride has become. Since I'm not a member of the GLBT community, I tend to stay out of that argument - heck, what people want to do to celebrate is up to them, and I'll join in if welcome - but a number of lefty gay friends have mentioned to me that they like to go to more alternative and grassroots events instead of or as well as the corporate shindig.
I suspect the main cost is for policing but that is only a guess.
yeah, it's true but I don't mind it so much. They are there on our terms, not on theirs :) and it shows they are paying attention..
The leather queens cause some people discomfort, the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence cause some people discomfort, the youth contingents cause some people discomfort, the presence of members of the armed forces in uniform cause some people discomfort, the drag acts cause some people discomfort.... the presence of opportunistic mainstream politicos causes ME discomfort...
Or are we talking about some hypothetical "average" by which participation is to be judged... it isn't going to be much of a celebration if the participants are all lily white picket fence and golden retriever types... even if some members of the community aspire to just that suburban existence and wish everyone else would just go away.
How about we strike a balance, I won't complain about the gay and lesbian auxilliary corps from the various "faith" groups (you know, the Quislings) and the nice respectable people can stop complaining about QuAIA... and if straight politicos with axes to grind want to massage the message, let them create their own little auxilliary corp to march.
Sounds fair to me.
Lily, as I stated a number of posts ago, Pride began as a protest, and yeah it was also a celebration of, um PRIDE. That is, pride in both self and community in the face of a world in which same sex and same gender attraction / relationships / sex / loving is deemed shameful and bad and evil (etc). This of course covers those of us who are non-white, non-middle class, non-binary-gendered, disabled, etc.
Yeah, krop, the parade permits, the po-po and the garbage clean-up is paid for by Pride and are services provided by the city, but Pride Toronto may get money from the City of Toronto for some of the arts stuff. I'm not sure.
What bagkitty said.
Also, "massage the message" ? Sounds like you need to set up a booth at the community fair, bagkitty.
So, saying "South African Apartheid" is discriminatory against South Africans?
And, since apartheid is a legally defined term in international law which describes the injustices committed by the Israeli state, I don't see how that is discriminatory. It is simply an application of international law.
Unless... next time I get a speeding ticket, I'll tell the cop that "genstrike speeding" is discriminatory against genstrike. Or Belgian-Canadians...
People aren't states. I don't like the Canadian state, but that doesn't make me a self-hating Canadian.
I grew up in Toronto and I remember the first pride parades. They caused the whole damn city discomfort and that was the point. LGBTs in Toronto have been made to feel discomfort forever. I applaud PRIDE for still being prepared to cause discomfort to the comfortable.
Which "Israelis"? The ethnic cleansers? The warmongers and occupiers and Mossad assassins? The murderers of the people of Gaza?
Or the courageous Israelis who tell the truth about their ugly regime - like Dr. Neve Gordon, chair of the department of politics and government at Ben-Gurion University of the Negev:
Stopping the Apartheid State: Boycott Israel
Well, that's obviously not the kind of 'discomfort' that I was referring to, bagkitty! None of those things offend me, nor should they. There is considerable difference of opinion within the LGBTQ community on a variety of issues, why make that worse? Being anti-Israel is anyone's right, but statements like "israel Apartheid" are grounded in opinion, not fact, and are ideologically one-sided, AND have nothing to do with Gay Rights, IN FACT, Israel is particularly advanced when it comes to LGBT Rights. Other aspects of the country have nothing to do with Pride even if many agents provocateurs decide to create rifts within the community. I am well aware of the realities of the Middle East, but I wouldn't bring them to a "Save the Pandas" demonstration.
Bullshit.
Israeli Apartheid is a key part of the opression of Gay and Lesbian Palestinians. It is perfectly appropriate for Gay and Lesbian people to stand against Israeli Apartheid because it accelerates and reinforces the opression of Gay and Lesbian Palestinians.
Queers Undermining Israeli Terrorism
Whether or not you agree with that is beside the point. It is absolutely the right of people in the LGB community to express their opinion, on this issue in that manner if they do. If you don't like it. Go there and take your "Israeli Utopia" sign.
Well, an anti-Hamas sign might strike a more appropriate balance - but do we really want to go down that road?
I don't know? Do you? If I were you, and were really concerned about the issue of LGB right in Palestine, and Hamas, I might actually follow the lead of Palestinian Gay and Lesbian rights groups, and see what kind of positioning they take on those issues.
Now there is a thought.
I agree to disagree :)