Rabble's politics of dividing the left
Rabble.ca 's politics dividing the left.
I was introduced to rabble in January by a friend.I loved reading the blogs and arcticles and I love the 'Not Rex Murphy' commentaries.
I became politically aware in high school in the 1980's at the beginning of the conservative revolution lead by then U.S. president Ronald Reagen and and British P.M. Margaret Thatcher.
I was awakened by the new breed of conservatism which practiced a neo-fascism bent on killing the left wing progressive revolution that flourished in the 60's with the civil rights movement and the 'counterculture' which gave wave to the pacifist movement of peace and love.
That generation preached free love and believed that a new substance(that was used extensively by various government departments over a decade before it hit the streets)LSD would change the world.
Sadly,after the Americans finally left Vietnam,the revolution was over,people gave up their protests to concentrate on themselves and the 'Me' generation was born.
In Canada,the 60's gave birth to sexual freedom as the sodomy laws were scrapped and the birth of health care.Canada became a 'hip' country that was progressive and tolerant which we could easily be perceived as such seeing who our neighbours to the south are.
As a teenager,I met a group of people who were very much into 'direct action' and they warned that the conservative revolution was like a cancer that would inevitably spread throughout the Western world and that included tolerant Canada.
We all saw what happened to the Mulroney government when he decided to lock step with Reagen and Thatcher..He sold this country up the river and Canadians,historically intelligent,responded and the Conservative government was decimated to all of 2 seats in Parliament.This was unprecedented and it made me proud to be a Canadian.
Flash forward to the end of the 90's..Canada was being forced to be more progressive as the Supreme Court was making case after case rendering much of old laws that had not been amended in generations were blatantly against the Charter of Rights.
At this point in time,Canada had already abolished the death penalty,sodomy laws,took no legal action against same sex marriage,legalized abortion and unofficially decriminalized marijuana.
And this coincided with a new party being formed in backwards Alberta conveniently called CRAP bringing the names of Preston Manning,Stockwell Day and some kid named Stephen Harper into the spotlight.
For years the CRAP party and the Progressive Conservatives quabbled and out of that there was a campaign called 'Unite the Right' that started.
When virtually all the old stock PC members evaporated from the party,a guy named Peter MacKay became their leader by default.But it didn't take very long for MacKay to decide to 'unite the Right' as the PC's and the newly renamed Reform Party merged.
Clearly the Reform Party had more power than the beatened and battered Progressive Conservative Party and during a leadership race,Peter MacKay gave up the reigns to Stephen Harper.
Canadians should have recognized that this new Conservative party (who did the one and only honest thing and dropped the Progressive monicker from their brand),was not the PC party.Members from the Progressive Conservatives and one from the Reform Party crossed the floor to join the Liberals...NOT because they are liberal per se,but because they were more progressive than this new animal that was created.
The Reform Party has been our government since 2006 which is an extraordinary feat considering that they are,in reality,a fringe party no different from the old Rhino Party or Doug Hennig's old party(I forget the name)
How did they do this?...Simple,they united the right...They didn't shut out anyone who was on their side.They brought conservatives of all stripes together..From the far right,to the right of centre..The Red Tories all defected because the only red this new conservative party can see is the mounting debt they're compiling.
Which brings me back to Rabble...Here is a forum that can be used to UNITE THE LEFT..Unfortunately,your politics divide the left.
I've read TONS of comments from those who are serious and have something intelligent to say,to professional trolls who look to start fights or disagree just for the sake of dis agreeing.
Thanks to rabble,I've been called a sexist,a conservative and a troll...I have been banned TWICE...Once for using the word 'douche bag' and using the word 'hot' in a story related to a hot woman.For those 2 words I was called a 'sexist'
When I took offense to that,one other moderator who fancies himself a comedian says--'I'm banning you for saying you're the King Of Spain'...HA..HA..ha
Then some other infinitely wise punter decides to call me a CONSERVATIVE..I may be alot of things but I am NOT a sexist and NOT a conservative of any stripe.
And now,I got BANNED AGAIN..Because some ASSHOLE called me a troll.
So good luck to you all...I enjoyed this forum but now I'M DONE...Keep on dividing the left and maybe Harper can be PM for life.
CIAO!
There's no left to unite, federally. The only party that is remotely left are the NDP, and, occasionally (not always) the BQ. The Cons are extreme right wing, the Libs right of centre, and the Greens - as far as I can tell the Greens in Canada are fiscally very conservative, and progressive only on the environment. What's there to unite?
I'm not crazy about how you were treated myself.
babble's culture is that of a highly politically-correct strain of "progressive" that does allow leftists of various sorts to paricipate. If you can get past the high-holy moralising that goes on here it can be pretty inclusive.
Rather than run away, if those leftists who aren't politically-correct "progressives" were to hang around and participate, perhaps the culture here would shift.
There's nothing progressive or left about banning people from a public online forum in my eyes. the only time someone should be banned is if they threaten someone on here or are just posting ad's and stuff that gets in the way of discussion.
instead we should welcome people with views we disgust so we can engage them and hopefully change their minds.
anyone read Saul Aulinsky's RULES FOR RADICALS? He makes an interesting point about how progressives often stay away from people with whom they disagree which pretty much ensures our views will not be widely disseminated. But it sure makes us feel good to tell each other about them, i.e. preaching to the converted.
we should instead be SEEKING OUT racists, homophobes, right wing religious whackos and pro-market propagandists and their followers. If we don't change them we don't change a thing!
Too bad you're not an NDP leader imdone .... you could then create an official policy for an annual "hot NDP chick contest" and no one (well no NDP members) would question you.
"Douchebag" is a bannable offense?
Gott in Himmel.
Thanks for understanding,al-Qa'bong...I just don't understand what it is with all this knit-picking.
The sad truth is that my comment on the story about the woman losing her job over her appearance is that the moderator fixated on one word without reading the comment and instead of explaining that the word I used could be construed as offensive,I was immediately labelled a 'sexist'
Isn't this the same modus operandi as Zionists using social humiliation (labelling people anti-semitic) to fend off anybody who dares criticize Israel?
I think..and that is exclusively MY opinion,that my banning was PC overkill.I don't believe I am or was over reacting.
Maybe I'll stick around,IF I don't get banned a third time.
Cheers.
I think 'political incorrectness' has a place. A lot of things I like are disliked on babble.
I don't bring it to babble.
Respect the space.
Repeat as necessary.
But if you happen to "slip up" on one of those "politically incorrect" things you like, does that then make you a racist/sexist/thingist ... should we just cut to the chase and accuse you of being a racist/sexist/thingist now that you've more or less admitted that you harbour yet unstated politically incorrect thoughts?
Heck, I sometimes want to give someone accused of being a racist/sexist a break and consider that they may have actually said what they said in anger and have really learned a lesson from the reaction to their misspoken words ... I did that once on here and was accused of being if not a racist, the closest thing one could get to it (I'm no longer pissed at the person who did that BTW, although I still believe I was right ... what else is new I hear you say :-P )
ETA: just for clarification, I recognize that I can be just as guilty of jumping to "politically correct" conclusions as anyone else, so this is not a "knock on others that I am not willing to have knocked against me"
Boom Boom...This is the point I was trying to make by explaining the Reform Party and their unite the Right campaign.
The Conservatives were DEAD..They were finished..Sadly,their predecessors didn't take advantage of it.
The Reform Party was a grass roots movement..They went from fringe to government in just a couple of years.
what we--free thinking progressives--need is a similar grass roots movement..We need to mobilize and we need to UNITE,just like the Reformers did.
You start off small,you gain steam then you merge and take over a mainstream party...You probably couldn't take over the Libs but a coalition of a united left front from the Greens to all the smaller social fringe parties could take over the NDP..If you take all those who lean to the left but support the Liberals and you UNITE those in smaller parties that are straight up to the left,you may have a bonifide hope in hell to actually have a government that is there to work for the PEOPLE.
It can be accomplished.
For what it is worth I throw my hat into the "too ridicules" ring for banning you over the word doucebag, a word BTW, I frequently use to call members of the Conservative Party.
Seriously rabble? We are banning people for shit like that? I read the thread, it was clearly not meant to offend anyone. We are not 12 years old here folks.
Blinded by the light, wrapped up like a douche and a rollin' in the night...
hey, it's a song, at least the way I heard it.
I don't know what to make of this. Personally, if some people find a word offensive, I treat it as yet another communication challenge. Find another word. The english language has scores, if not hundreds.
know you white men are so hard done by here, why not we just let you say whatever the fuck ya want, eh, or you will be weeping somemore about 'poor youse'!!!
and no yards you had the fucking audacity to call someone a wife beater.....because you disagreed with them.
and your correct stargazer we are NOT 12 years, so they, the whining white men, should be able to restrain themselves from using sexist fucking labels and prejoratives.
I use the word doucebag. I had absolutely NO issue with the use of the word in the context he had put it. Hell, I have said it myself a million times over.
Let me put this another way. Here we have a person who used the word doucebag and he gets BANNED. Then over in another thread we have a so-called lefty actually gloating that he is going to help boost Israel's economy - a known Zionist - and he is ALLOWED to stay with almost nary a word? Are you fucking kidding me? Really? Doucheag is ban-able but supporting a racist murdering state is a-okay?
I'm pretty fucking sure that if I had to chose one of the two I would put my money on the new guy and turf the Israeli government apologist on his ass. But hey, that's just me.
I am appalled at what gets a pass around here and what doesn't. The more we push people away for minor bullshit, and yes this is minor, the more we chose to isolate ourselves. We are ALL human. We all screw up. Every freaking day. Give him a break. We are sure giving the Zionists a break.
As far as I could tell, using the word "douchebag" resulted in a request from the moderator to refrain and an explanation as to why. What got him banned was abusing a moderator who was trying to do a job.
Stargazer you using D_bag, is like blacks using the "n" word or First Nations women using the "s" word. Big difference.
But I agree with you on the allowing of SCC to stay, I had to take a break for 3 days over that one.
personally, I do not find D_bag minor, just as I do not find "bitch" minor, these are nasty nasty prejoratives against women specifically....and last time I looked sexism against women is getting worse NOT better.
and dude who got banned got right nasty about his right to say whatever the fuck he wants here.
and yet etamaran wants to discuss moderators shutting down discussions in the aboriginal forum and gets shut down too for asking, wtf!!!
I still may leave over that one...
eta: if white men, are "splitting the left" because they can't use the sexist words they want, then they were never fucking on the left in the first place, IMV
I read the thread. There was no abuse going on at all. He was rightfully questioning how in the world he could get banned for using the word douchebag.
There are much larger things to tackle than this minor indiscretion no?
remind: you a reverse sexist?
I guess your idea of abuse and mine are somewhat different.
hey Jack, I don't think that this thread gives you call to jump on remind. If you have a bone to pick with her you might try doing so in a manner that isn't sexist - unlike your "reverse sexism" card. Just because I defend the use of the word once does not mean that you are invited to heap some garbage on remind.
Pogge, you may be right. I'll have to read the thread again but my point still stands. I'm thinking apologist for genocide are a much bigger deal than this dude here and his use of the term doucebag.
Thanks for that writer. Interesting read.
My pleasure! For what it's worth, I also find the term homophobic / anal sex phobic.
I guess if I called Don Cherry a fuckin' asshole,there'd be no issue..Then again,maybe it's because the person I was attacking was Don Cherry.
I was told that 'sexist terms like "douche bag" are not allowed on babble....'
OK, no problem and no offense taken BUT the moderator proceeded with 'nor commenting,like you did in this thread about how 'hot' you think certain women are.
And I ask,WHERE did I say that?...As I said,the moderator fixated on ONE word in the comment I left and CLEARLY didn't take any time to bloody well read it.
From the thread about the woman who was deemed 'too hot to work at a particular bank'
My post.....
"Wow...that woman is hot
And with that,her bosses and co-workers should move on.Maybe the bank in question would prefer her to wear a niqab or a burqa.
She should sue and take them for all they got...Mind you,the bank will have an easy time proving their case."
I read this story TWICE and one of the arcticles contained the words 'too hot for work' in its title.
Now show me where did I make a firm comment on how hot I think certain women are? (A) I was making a point (B) I didn't say anything that had NO part in the story..There was NO blanket statement without a point.
The moderator also insinuated I was somehow perpetuating opression.
I don't appreciate being called a sexist...As someone pointed out about the word 'bitch'..How would you react if someone called you that?
And when another moderator chimed in trying to make a joke out of it...Blatantly throwing a flip comment thinking I had already been banned so I couldn't reply,I got pissed.
You know,getting pissed...Or maybe the moderators and some of the people who think I'm Hitler incarnate for saying 2 INNOCUOUS words,never get pissed and are always in a state of Chi or actually DO get pissed..EXCLUSIVELY when it's a crime against PC.
Hi SG. I'm afraid I'm with pogge on this one. If someone came to a social gathering at my place and talked like this and like this and like this and finally this, I'd definitely remind him where the door was. It really has nothing to do with the term "douchebag". It was, rather, a question of behaving like a knob, in response to a very patient and helpful moderator.
Funny how you're so stuck on PC, when it's an issue of treating others equally.
Tell me, why is douchebag an insult? And have you actually *been* banned?
Edited to add: and what Unionist said.
Hi imdone.
If you'd like to discuss with Catchfire and/or myself about your banning, please do so. Our emails are catchfire(at)rabble.ca and maysie(at)rabble.ca.
And, well, you might not know that it's not okay to come back after you've been banned. But since your trashing of babble, as delightful as it may be, seems to be engaging a few others, I'm going to make the judgement call to not ban your new incarnation tonight.
I'm not reading from your text, however, that you're open in any way to seeing the offensiveness of the term that you not only used, but continue to insist isn't offensive.
I hope you think about the answer to writer's question. And, you know, power, gender and patriarchy 'n stuff.
I'll be checking back in here in the morning.
Douche bag is just a word...Like any and all words...Except people put meaning to them.
I remember some years ago where to stem sexual harassment at the work place and to make sure no one finds themselves offended,obviously these businesses were worried about lawsuits,computers were fixed so that certain words could not be typed and, as a result, seen by any party who'd take offense.
'Programming computers to reject obvious words such as fuck and etc..etc...(don't want to get in trouble of breaking a PC rule),I guess that makes sense but this policy went much,much further...Seemingly clear innocuous words fell into the ban..For example prick..Which we all learn before we've even learned how to use a toilet,is not an obscenity..Unless it's used in a certain way.
This whole war on words and how these words are somehow 'sexist' reminds me of a certain group who were demanding Manitoba to change its name because it was sexist.
If you think I'm making that up,google it.
Seeing how sensitive some people get over words,I have to ask...Are you the same people who had a coronary over Janet Jackson's quarter second of nipple a few years back?
Or are you offended when a woman nurses her new born in public?
If you're not,remember that those 2 things--the latter one in particular--offend some people..Do you think to protect the sensibilities of a few hyper-sensitive people who think breast feeding is obscene means women should not be able to?
Think about it.
So talk to each other. Difference is good. That's why we aren't pre-programmed robots.
I'm pretty tired right now so I can't respond in full, but for the record, alan smithee was not banned for using the word "douche-bag." He was suspended for abusing a moderator and for disrespect and general disdain for the community. He was invited on several occasions to discuss the matter with the moderators in public, by PM or email. He chose to take a different direction.
I used the word douche bag a couple of times on babble. I was told it was offensive and it was explained why. It convinced me.
Anyway, I'll respond in full tomorrow.
From casual observation, the following are verboten on Rabble-Babble:
*criticizing Islam, or other non-Judeo-Christian religions (things like mysogeny in Islamic culture and Shari'a law, mainstream Islam's violent intolerance for religions like the Baha'i Faith, or apostacy)
*suggesting the obvious: that mainstream (Salafi-Wahhabi) Islam has serious, unresolvable conflicts with Western, liberal-pluralistic society over issues such as free discourse, women's rights and tolerance of GLBTG people
*pointing out the fact that the hijab, niqab and burqa are symbols of mysogeny, gynophobia and male dominance over women
*defending the freedom of expression--and right to life--of critics of Islam, Mohammed cartoonists, etc.
*use of 'Islam[ic/ism]' and 'terroris[t/ism]', in the same sentence; believing that there is, in fact, a problem with Islamic, Sikh and Tamil terrorism in Canada and elsewhere
*criticizing any facets of non-Western/non-Judeo-Christian cultures (FGM, honour killings, arrainged marriages, etc.)
*any sort of comments to the effect that there is a link between very high immigration numbers, national population growth and urban sprawl; also, stating that people in developing countries have unsustainable birthrates--or that there is such a thing as overpopulation at all
*use of terms like 'illegal alien', or suggesting that border and immigration controls are desireable and should be respected; as well, mentioning the fact that low-cost 'undocumented' labour drives down labour costs and increases demand for real estate and commodities, hence increasing cost-of-living (and is the reason business lobbies support liberal, 'No One Is Illegal' immigration policies)
*suggesting that free trade with countries like the PRC--which keeps its currency value artificially low, employs slave slabour in its factories, and hires ex-politicians from Canada as lobbyists--is a negative thing for Canada's workers
*stating that the PRC, Cuba and other 'socialist' countries have appalling human rights records; mentioning the fact that the leadership of the PRC has followed a brutal policy of imperialism and colonization in Tibet and Central Asia
*acknowledging the fact that non-'white'/non-European people are capable of being murderous racists and bigots (e.g., China, Sudan)
*pointing out that 'left-wing' politicians (NDP and others), like their 'right-wing' counterparts, are representing business interests
*pointing out that that the Gun Registry is a costly porkbarrel project benefiting a huge, transnational corporation; expressing the belief that gun control is a statist tool, employed by authoritarian governments in order to protect against armed uprisings
*actually commenting that a woman is physically-attractive (though posts on penis-enlargement pills, in the 'Sex Trade Workers' section is okay)
Acceptable things to write on Rabble-Babble are:
*9/11 'truther' theories
*seditious calls-to-action (actually, in violation of the Criminal Code)
*borderline treasonous cheering-on of the Taliban (which is actually at war with Canada, under Article 5 of the NATO treaty)
*'Zionist' and any number of derogatory epithets in the same sentence
*anti-semitic rants, including 'Zionist conspiracy'-type posts
*sundry hate-speech, which moderators ignore (i.e., serious enough to violate the Criminal Code, let alone warrant Human Rights complaints)
*'Canadian Soldiers' and 'war criminal', 'murderer' and so forth, in the same sentence
*blatantly racist statements...if the target isn't a Person of Colour (I actually have seen "white people are all racists"-type statements and worse posted here, without any sanctions from moderators)
Hopefully, the Rabble-Babble moderators will take a break from being PC Police, while controlling some of the more serious (i.e., actually ILLEGAL) statements that have appeared on this site.