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Iroquois Confederacy Passports
July 14, 2010 - 2:14pm
The U.S. government has agreed to allow the Iroquois lacrosse team to travel abroad under passports issued by the Iroquois Confederacy, a team spokeswoman said Wednesday.
Tonya Gonnella Frichner, a member of the Onondaga Nation who works with the team, said the U.S. State Department dropped a demand that the team travel using higher-security U.S. passports.
Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/07/14/us-iroquois-lacrosse-team.html#ixzz0tgKQsQPN
sounds like the confederacy went to great lengths to have very well made legit passports, and they were recognized last year.
There's a lot more to it than that.
Not just anybody can make their own passports.
The British government has refused to allow an Iroquois lacrosse team to travel to England using passports issued by the Iroquois Confederacy.
The decision Wednesday means the team will miss a world championship lacrosse competition in Manchester.
Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/07/14/us-iroquois-lacrosse-team.html#ixzz0tkvl3UPm
So the British still haven't quite figured out what colonialism means, eh? Unsurprising.
Recognising the ability to make passports is a backdoor recognition of sovereignty...not something I'd wager most nation-states are willing to do particularly in the case of aboriginal nations.
An aboriginal lacrosse team whose Iroquois-issued passports have been at the heart of an international dispute will default on the first game of the sport's world championship on Thursday.
The Iroquois Nationals were grounded Wednesday after England refused to grant them visas. They're holding out hope they'll be allowed into England to compete in a second game set for Saturday.
"We have a lot of high-level calls out for help," Percy Abrams, the team's executive director, said Thursday. The team was at a New York City hotel hours before the start of what was to be the first game of the tournament in Manchester - a match between the Iroquois and England.
Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/07/15/iroquois-lacrosse-team-visas.html#ixzz0tm0Cfp2d
I would have thought the back door sovereignty was already in play.
Everybody, including US citizens, has always needed a passport for coming into the US, except [until recently] if coming from Mexico, Canada and a few other places. So they must have been accepting these passports for some time.
The issue now started with saying that for securtiy reasons they were not going to accept the passports. Clinto changed that, but I think it was a reversion to the staus quo: accepting the Iroquois passports for coming into the US.
Well this is a post-911 world afterall. It's not safe. We have to learn to be fearful all over again in what is now a colder war era and carry over from the last five decades of utter nonsense. We have no alternative but to surrender certain rights in order to prevent another 9/11 from ever happening again. George Washington's treaty with Mohawks is now overridden by Homeland Stupidity bureaucrats. Watch those around you. Be ready to turn over your brother or neighbor to the authorities if they grow beards or look out of sorts in any way. Trust no one.
If you were coming from Mexico, Canada (or a few other places) you didn't need any passports at all...it doesn't follow then that these passports were being accepted all along. We do not know if Iroquois passports were ever being accepted outside of Mexico and Canada, and then used for re-entry to the US. Perhaps Charter is aware of any such cases in the modern day passport-required era.
What we do know is that various First Nations straddling the US/Canada border have had haphazard permission to cross back and forth with regular ID, Status Cards, or as in this case, Iroquois passports.
As I understand it Mohawk argue that the Jay Treaty of 179 gives them the right to cross the border freely and without inspection or duty tax on personal property, goods and effects...though I believe they contest the way it is interpreted and applied. Sometimes this is respected and sometimes it isn't...Charter could probably give you an excellent history on this. The Iroquois have been consistant in their interpretation of their rights but various court cases and official policies have set out to deny those rights as understood by the Iroqouis. I believe this is how outright or 'back-door' sovereignty has and continues to be opposed.
I thought that the Iroqois had been using the passports to enter the US, not just at the land borders... at places where everyone has always had to show a passport [before the recent changes that required a passport from everyone and at every point of entry]. But I don't remember where I got that idea.
Do you mean coming from another country other than Canada or Mexico into the US? Because you have to pass through security in the departing nation, and if they don't recognise the Iroquois passport, they're not going to let you through. That has nothing to do with whether the US always or sometimes recognises Iroquois passports.
Though if someone from the Iroquois Confederacy traveled abroad on a passport issued by the US, then re-entered on their own passport...is that what you mean?
Another tricky issue is the different approach the US takes to 'tribal sovereignty' versus how Canada deals with it here. American Indians (the US term) already have broad law-making powers over certain areas that you don't see in Canada other than through negotiated agreements. The Iroquois in the US might have an easier time getting recognition of their passports than the Iroquois in Canada could.
I did mean for example that Iroquois flying from Europe into New York had used theit passposrts on entry. Like I said, I don't know where remember where I got that idea. And now that it comes up, I'm waiting to here if someone knows for sure.
You are right, that security in the departing countries would also be an issue. But technically, that would not be a sovereignty issue. The airline withholds issuing you a ticket until they have assurance you will be granted entry where you are going. That could amount to the same thing. IE, if they have any irresolvable questions about the validity of that Iroquois passport because of sovereignty issues, they wont let you on the plane. But that isnt an issue of recognizing soveriegnty per se. If you can demonstrate that you will be allowed to land in New York, thats the end of it. And the Iroquois may practically address that in their passports or supporting documents.
Like you said, they could use the US passports abroad. Then use their own passports when they land in the US- to establish that sovereignty principle. But I would guess not. Because when you land in the US and the passport you are showing does not show any documentation of where you have been, the questions dont stop until you show documentation [or documentation of a lost and replaced passport]. Which would lead straight to showing the US passport, and cancel the establishing of sovereignty.
My guess that either they have already been using their passports, straight up, for overseas travel... or I just erroneously got that idea.
I think its interesting that, as far as I read it, the UK was first hiding behind what the US would do. "We wont let them in because the US won't let them back with those passports." Then when the US said they would let them enter with their own passports, the UK simply said we won't let them in. [And note that the US has much more at stake here- both in terms of sovereignty issues, and the hyper-politicised security issue.]
What was the UK doing before? Had the Iroquois used their passports to enter the UK? [Which goes back to the basic question, have they previously been using them overseas?]
It needs to be noted that passports and security in Europe is not entirely a national sovereignty issue. Three years ago the EC put into play demands on member countries... and in typical EC bureaucracy fashion, its turning into a nightmare for EC citizens living abroad and increasingly for people seeking visas. I just sent off an unbeleivable whack of documents for my daughter's French student visa, and they just barely relented from insisting we had to come to Montreal [1600 km] for her to be fingerprinted there, before departing. And they do not relent when it comes to passposrts for their citizens. If you are an EC citizen living in Inuvik and need your passport renewed, you better remember to do it while you are on a trip home or to Ottawa. Otherwise, you'll be making a special trip for "biometrics" [fingerprinting that could be done anywhere].
I think the issuing of passports can be seen as a sovereignty issue...in my view, Canada and the US work very hard to limit the sovereignty of First Nations by really restricting the kinds of powers they can have. If the Federal government of Canada is responsible for issuing passports, then they are likely to guard that power jealously and attempt to undermine the legitimacy of Iroquois passports. That's my cynical viewpoint. I don't necessarily believe it actually is about sovereignty, just that governments often take a slippery slope view to letting 'others' have power over things the government in question wants all for itself.
The Haudenosaunee Confederacy have been using their passports to enter countries all over the world, including the US and Great Britain for about 50 years. Canada has been a hold-out refusing to recongize their sovereignty or their authority to issue passports.
Presently, the Haudenosaunee Confederacy is finalizing a secure passport (chipped) for use, with the approval of Homeland Security.
I suspect (and it is speculation on my part) that Harper had something to do with this, being upset that the Queen recognized Haudenosaunee Confederacy sovereignty, with mementos celebrating the anniversary of the Silver Covenant Chain. The US would have no cause to refuse, since they regularly acknowledge the sovereignty of First Nations in presidential declarations. Bill Clinton did this in 1996 as I recall but it was done by a few presidents before them.
In any case the passports are valid in many countries around the world.
Passports weren't needed for international travel until fairly recently. Charter, do you know whether, since the advent of the passport requirement for international travel, the Haudenosaunee Confederacy passports have been accepted abroad, and where?
I'm pretty sure passports have been required for most overseas travel for more than 50 years that I know of. I remember seeing friends' passports from the late 50s and early 60s- when it was still something done only by dedicated people and/or people with inheritances or trust funds.
Thats interesting about them apparently having a chipped passport soon. The US does not have that yet, and as far as I know it is still just discussion. I know someone who got a German passport recently and it wasnt chipped.
When the Haudenosaunee do that, they'll completely kick the legs out from under the UK's excuse.
Not to mention they would already be on par with EU countries if they have any biometrics in the passport [and ahead of the US, whose passports the EU member countries accept].
The evolution of identity/travel documentation has been interesting. You are correct...I erred in saying passports were unecessary for overseas travel 50 years ago. However, there did used to be more leniencey on travel by water or land into certain countries, for which passports were not required.
I can't find the links but I remember seeing a list of about 30 countries who have accepted the Haudenosaunee passports over the years. I do know that some Mohawks regularily travel to New Zealand and a number of south America countries only on that same passport.
If you come across even anecdotal accounts of how common and when the paaposrts have been used to enter EU member countires, I'd like to hear that.
It wasn't really about assurance they could re enter the country. Both Canada and the US sent the assurance but they still weren't allowed to travel
http://brantfordexpositor.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2675667
Here is a good story about the passports.
http://kahnawakenews.com/clients/kahnawakenews/canada-prevents-mohawks-f...