babble is rabble.ca's discussion board but it's much more than that: it's an online community for folks who just won't shut up. It's a place to tell each other — and the world — what's up with our work and campaigns.
Support rabble | Advertise with us | Contact our staff | About rabble | Log-in or Register for a new account | Corrections | Privacy policy | Newsfeeds | Mailing lists
rabble: Features | Columnists | In Cahoots | Blogs | Books | Photos | What's Up | Polls
babble: Forum Topics | Active Topics
The rpn: About the RPN | Become a podcaster
rabbleTV: Program Guide | Features | Indie Inside | Best of the net
Copyright © 2001-2013 the authors
Syndicate
(The same piece was linked to @ post #55.)
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/torontomayoralrace/article/853207--rob-ford-is-mr-popular-at-city-hall?bn=1
Rob Ford is Mr. Popular at city hallOh now that is funny......
@dandmb50
I actually think the statement about "non-white people" is racisit, because it is suggesting that white people are somehow the "supreme beings" or something.
I never really paid much attention to politics before but no matter what anyone says with this mayoral race, a lot more people are interested. I'm not convinced that Ford is the best, because a lot can happen in two months, and with Ford's track record, anything is possible, but he's looking pretty good so far. Every time the Star dumps on him he gains popularity. But what's the alternative, Smitherman - $1 Billion? I don't think so.
I have always thought that is what has always been so great about Toronto, the fact that we are made up from people all around the world and we all seem to get along. We went to visit my sister in Michigan a few years back and couldn't figure out what was different and then it finally hit me, it was all white people, no multi-culture. That is our strength, and I for one, never want to lose that. And by the way, I am white. Make sure you go out and vote this year, no matter who you vote for. I'm still undecided.
Daniel .. Toronto
No. It just indicates that white people have inherited a superior political and economic position that is inherited from the days of the great European empires, and has now been transformed into the new world order, which is for the most part, still run by white people of European origin.
It reflects the fact that there is a real historical political and economic divide that has real implications and meaning for relations between white people and non-white people.
If Rob Ford wins I don't know what I'm gonna do. Ditto Smitherman.
But here's a question that I'd like to hear Cueball's thoughts on specifically, and of course anyone else's. This is driving me slightly kooky trying to figure it out.
While I get the "regular guy" schtick of Ford's alleged appeal, Toronto is 50% people of colour and close to 50% immigrants (first and second generations). Some of these folks are in that (sob!) 32% quoted in post #42. The Canadian "hoser" white guy, the equivalent of the "good ol boy" USian trope, somehow has traction????
If someone has any theories I really would like to hear them.
Russel Peters.
@dandmb50
This reminds me of people who buy cottages up north in Muskoka and they love it, because it is away from the city and in "God's Counrty" and very peacefull. But the problem arises when they get the cottage and then all of a sudden there are all kinds of people from the Toronto moving into their nice quiet area and they want to cut off people from moving in.
"We found this quiet spot and we don't want anyone else moving in, we found it first" but we must allow others to benifit from our way of life and whether it's a cottage up north or just moving to Toronto as a refugee, we must show compassion and help those who need help which makes our city a better place. Will this include dead beats, yes, but we must help those that will be an asset to our city and will return the opportunity 10 fold. We all had a chance, don't deny others the same opportunity even if they are from other countries.
Daniel .. Toronto
Good point.
Yeah Cueball. I think I knew that and didn't want to face it. Damn.
Um Daniel, when you say "people who buy cottages" do you mean white people?
And by "all kinds of people from Toronto" do you mean people of colour?
And if you meant your piece to be a high-level critique of how the colonists and their lackeys feel about who was here first (which is wrong by the way), then well done. Otherwise, you might want to look at a few of the assumptions you've got going on.
Yeah, I know. Muskoka on Simcoe Day as a way of getting away from those Caribana gang-bangers. That schtick.
But seriously, I'd be cautious about over-framing Rob Ford's "white trash" appeal--in fact, I'm wondering if there's also a non-white/Anglo pro-Ford critical mass, small business owners and the like who came to Canada for "freedom" and who also like the tough-on-crime message, and who--let's face it--themselves don't have very much in common with the inner-city left-liberal (and, I regret to say, heavily "white", albeit in the Christian Lander/Stuff White People Like sense) cabal.
Paradoxically, Rob Ford's become the Stuff White People Hate candidate. He ain't got a whiff of Trinity-Bellwoods about him (except, maybe, when the annual Portuguese festival takes place there, cheesy carny rides and all)
He ain't got a whiff of Alexandra Park about him either.
Like it or not, there's a strong perception that the Toronto suburbs have been ignored by the current mayor and council in favour of projects downtown. From the perspective of Mr and Mrs Middle-Class-Homeowner in Scarborough, North York or Etobicoke more has been done to them than for them. It doesn't hurt Rob Ford that these are people who bother to vote in local elections.
Of course this is also a total myth. By any objective standard tax revenue gets raised in downtown Toronto and tends to get spent in the 'burbs. If the old City of Toronto seceded from Toronto and created a doughnut hole - the first thing that would happen would be the suburban shell declaring bankruptcy because they would lose all the massive revenue from downtown businesses and condos etc...
On top of that under Miller, the city has actually spent a fortune on "neighbourhoods at risk" almost all of which are in downtroden parts of Scarborough and Etobicoke etc...and Transit City is all about massively expanding TTC access in the suburbs!
Similar perceptions exist in the peripheral zones of Queens and Staten Island in New York and the San Fernando Valley in Los Angeles.
Smitherman should be *very* careful about using history, especially in context of Jews fleeing Nazi oppression. A grand total of 5,000 Jews were taken in by Canada in the period 1933-1948. For comparison, Britain took 70,000 and the US 200,000 (source: Irving Abella and Harold Troper, None Is Too Many: Canada and the Jews of Europe, 1933-1948 (1982)). This was in no small part due the craven opportunism of Mackenzie King, who pandered to anti-semites for votes. He was the man who said that while he detested Nazism and its hatred of Jews, he remarked of Hitler, "[he] will rank some day with Joan of Arc among the deliverers of his people". He was the head of the cabinet who maintained an unofficial ban on all Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany. This led to Canadian authorities turning away the S.S. St. Louis, a ship packed with Jewish refugees fleeing the Nazis, from Halifax harbour in 1939. The ship then returned to mainland Europe, where it docked in Antwerp. Many refugees were unable to escape when the Nazis moved in a year later.
Canada *has* turned away refugees in the past, including Jews in the most desperate of circumstances. And this was all in order to pander to the racist tendencies of some sections of Canadian society at that time.
I refuse to accept, use or carry a $50 bill for this reason.
And Transit City to Etobicoke and Scarborough will almost certainly be cancelled under a Ford mayoralty. How is denying residents access to rapid transit helping them?
A cheerful reminder of charges laid against Ford by his wife in March 2008 for assault and death threats.
Charges dropped 2 months later. You'll never guess why. The wife had some "credibility issues".
Fucking hell fuck.
I didn't read the poll originally, and I can't find it now. I have to really wonder how the poll was conducted, to give the numbers it does, for the reasons Maysie points out.
Maybe POC make up nearly 50% of Toronto's population, but what percentage do they make up of Toronto's "likely voters"? I tend to think that maybe they represent a low likely voter percentage, and the poll was of likely voters?
Ford's support does seem rather inexplicable. Even from a white guy populist perspective, he's got to be pushing a lot of looney buttons with people.
Or it could be that people, no matter who they are, are just not listening to negative stuff in the media. Maybe they just chaulk it up to slur or spin. Maybe, like me, they figure Ford just can't buy his way out of trouble, like Smitherman and that underneath it all, Smitherman's likely just as bad, only it's kept out of the press.
Maybe it's a case that when confronted with smarm, people will opt for the guy next door smarm flavour rather than the high powered flavour of smarm Smitherman represents and we're all so very tired of.
Ford. I swear he's the corporeal version of Eric Cartman.
Because Ford's big supporters in the burbs tend not to be transit users?
Ford appeals to the (real and wannabe) ugly-McMansion-teardown class. And you can see these days in much of Toronto--they rule.
Oh, and the heritage-issues debate is on the 30th (tomorrow) at St Lawrence Hall.
Keep in mind that Ford's own ward in Etobicoke North is very poor and has a very large Somali population and yet he keeps getting elected there by huge majorities - so someone is voting for him.
It also has a large Italian and anglo working class homeowner population there...and turnout in municipal elections is very low. So who knows if lots of Somalis are turning out to vote for Ford?
evidently they are not turning out to vote against him either!
Do you have citations for these things?
By and large, I think Smitherman's Wait Times Strategy and Green Energy Act were effective? Is there something I'm unaware of? I can't see at all how he could be worse than Ford. (FWIW, when Harper won a minority the first time, I also thought he would be so ineffective as to be preferable to Martin. How wrong was I!)
(On the whole, I'm pro-McGuinty, which may place me in the minority on this board, I'm not sure. While remaining pro-business and reasonably fiscally responsible, the provincial Liberals have significantly raised the minimum wage -- my American friends only dream of a minimum wage above $10/h, doubled the number of community health centres [which are great ime], made real progress on green energy, continued supporting culture effectively, and brought much-needed infrastructure to Windsor. Their handling of G20 security was horrible and would be inexcusable if there were any credible progressive alternative in Ontario. Our universities are in crisis but they are beginning to deal with the issue. I have confidence that Glen Murray will be quite good and progressive in research and innovation. If Hudak wins next year, I think we'll start to see wistful pining for the McGuinty days.:P)
Do you have citations for these things?
George Smitherman Campaign Website:
These are major pieces of Smitherman's campaign, I am not sure why you feel so enamoured of him, when you don't actually know what he is supporting.
A Safer Community for the self-confessed "tough on crime" candidate, more cops but also more Big Brother:
Where Ford is fascist up front and simple, and he wears it on his sleeve, there is nothing in Smitherman's attack on labour, privacy and civil rights that really distinguishes him from Ford on a policy level, and when it comes down to it, given his overt connections with Queens Park, Smitherman can succeed where Ford will fail.
As Howard Moscoe put it: "Ford wont be able to pass gas" at city council.
"when Harper won a minority the first time, I also thought he would be so ineffective as to be preferable to Martin. How wrong was I!"
There is no comparison whatsoever between the powers of a Canadian PM who has tot dictatorial control of his own caucus, has MASSIVE executive powers etc... and a Toronto mayor who has no party behind him, very limited executive powers etc...also, Harper in Ottawa has thrived on the fact that if the opposition voted down one of his budgets we would be into an election. If Ford were mayor, city council could systematically vote down every single thing he ever proposed for the next four years and there would be nothing he could do about it. There is no way to force early municipal elections!
Are we sure that a Ford administration would not have a lot of councillors on his side? The same people who would vote for Ford might also vote for similarly-minded councillors.
We have no party system so he has no "slate" and in any case, Ford is so personally abrasive that most of the rightwingers on council hate his guts personally. You may have noticed that virtually no one on council has actually endorsed him for that reason.