babble is rabble.ca's discussion board but it's much more than that: it's an online community for folks who just won't shut up. It's a place to tell each other — and the world — what's up with our work and campaigns.
Support rabble | Advertise with us | Contact our staff | About rabble | Log-in or Register for a new account | Corrections | Privacy policy | Newsfeeds | Mailing lists
rabble: Features | Columnists | In Cahoots | Blogs | Books | Photos | What's Up | Polls
babble: Forum Topics | Active Topics
The rpn: About the RPN | Become a podcaster
rabbleTV: Program Guide | Features | Indie Inside | Best of the net
Copyright © 2001-2013 the authors
Syndicate
Geeze. Way to ruin my day.
Actually, I stand by all statements I made, and Cueball chose to selectively respond to some minor points he found there. First regarding paycheck, it is a fact that Galloway has a weekly show on the Iranian pressTV in which he continuously sings the praise of the Iranian government not just with regard to Palestine but also regarding the 2009 election and its aftermath events. Even Cueball could not dispute that. Now just using that venue for any purpose is shameful - kinda like having a program on Nazi tv sitting with Goebbels back in 30s while claiming to be an anti-racist! However when the person in question actually goes out of way to sing the praise of his employer too, that is hardly a model of integrity.
In addition to his support on pressTV program, in his numerous speeches in the UK he has continuously defended the Iranian regime against the protest movement, including the house of common where he was confronted by Iranian students, he accuses them to be monarchists and terrorists (see the link I posted before- ironically one of the Iranians accused by him is the socialist activist son of a prominent leftist author who was in prison during the Shah) Galloway's position toward the current Iranian regime has always been very clear.
Now keep in mind that my debate with you was about the question of "integrity". Do you consider those who call Israel "the best democracy of middle east" and close their eyes on Palestinians suffering, men of integrity? Iran is even far less of a democracy, and contrary to Galloway's statement, has not been a "democracy in progress". Presidential elections have been held in Iran for 30 years; the first one back in 1980, in which a wide range of candidates were allowed to stand with very little screening. Since then, the situation kept worsening. In 1997 a less known candidate (Khatami) even managed to beat the regime's favorite. So the claim that somehow the 2009 election in Iran was a sign of "progress toward democracy" is completely false.
The only difference this time was that in the first day after the election - even before any mass demonstration - the entire top executives of the party that supported Ahmadinejad's opponent were arrested, then the campaign workers of the parties, then almost all student activists, then ordinary people who were just showing up on the street with the opponent's green signs. The total number of arrested - according to the regime's judiciary - was over 10,000. Many who just walked in a demonstration received two-year to 5-year jail sentences. Those who broke a window or throw a rock were accused of "fighting God" and received death sentences. All newspapers belonging to other factions and parties but one were shut down. The above information is all from government official sources, not the opposition. The estimate on the number of killed people ranges from 37 (according to government officials - 3 confirmed deaths from torture in jail) to over 300 by opposition sources.
And then you are telling me a man who on his program continues to support the regime that was the perpetrator of this whole ordeal is "a man of integrity"? I think not.
Listen I am not an avid Galloway watcher, so I haven't had the chance to go over every statement he has made about the Iranian election. You however offered an example by way of a Youtube clip that you seemed to think was a definiative example of Galloway's support for the regieme of Amedinejad. I didn't need to dispute anything. I just needed to look at the clip to see what he was saying for content, and he basically compared the election to the Florida vote fraud and then went on to say that the fraud did not deligitimize the US in eyes of the west, and so on.
You have been asked to bring forward evidence repeatedly to support your assertions. Repeatedly you written statement vary with the established facts. Starting from trying to assert that there was substance to the allegation that he was basically an agent of the Iraqi state, an allegation you tried to say was proven false because of the problems with British libel law, even though the Christian Science Monitor, one of the source of the allegations established upon further investigation that it had been duped by forgeries, you then said that he has made statements supporting the Amedinejad regieme, and again upon examination the allegation seems to be false.
Now Amedinejad is Hitler, and Galloway is Lord Haw Haw.
Do you have anything other than the above mentioned Youtube clip to support your continued allegations, or is that it?
So, jtleroy is Jaku. Or at least he posts on that magical computer which spawns so many creative Israeli apologists. So he's gone. Sorry it took us so long to out him.
Cueball, the only part of my post with regard to Saddam and Galloway was a two-word phrase "paying dictator" which you focused on. Could you kindly also give your opinion about Galloway's relationship with the other paying dictator where there is no dispute - his presence on the Iranian presstv?
Regarding the election I gave two clips and a link as examples, and a quick search on youtube beings up many hits that I haven't gone through one by one. However even that clip had sufficient evidence in my view: There is no logical comparison of Florida vote and the Iranian election. Al Gore did not end up in jail, nor his supporters. I don't recall anyone in Florida sentenced to death because of the election. If this comparison -as well as the statement about Iranian "democracy"- was not made to whitewash the crimes of the Iranian regime in the aftermath of the election, then I don't know what "support" means. For example, in your view if someone in response to the issue of Palestinians suffering, every time replies that " But Israel is the only democracy in middle east", is he not supporting Israel? In that sense, how is the position of Galloway toward Iran any different from the position of a Fox News commentator toward Israel?
How does this statement accord with your views on Galloway's alliegiance to Amedinejad and his wholesale support of the repression of the protest movement:
Galloway on PressTV Regarding the accussation that the protestor are agents of foreign powers
As for the Florida election results, Al Gore caved into the demand of the Republican party, and no mass protest movement was spawned to defend his rights. In this, Iranians were far from complacent, and the opposition intransigent. We have no way of knowing what would have happened if Gore had actively pressed his claim, and had a movement of protest been spawned to protest, closing down major cities in the USA.
I imagine the result might not have been too different.
For clarification, that monkey (Ahmadinejad) is just a bellboy and a show. He takes orders from the Hitler-like religious elite behind him.
So we were "entitled". What a complete whitewash. Then how come 10,000 of us ended up in jail or dead either by bullets or under torture? He forgot to mention that? or that's part of the democratic process that he says "has come a long way in Iran"?
How do your construe saying that Iranians are allowed to express their views through public demonstrations as support for having demonstrators rounded up and arrested for doing so?
sanizadeh, I think the discussion about Iran is an important one to have, and I'd join in if this thread weren't coming to an end shortly.
Some of us write carefully about Iran at the moment because we are watching U.S.-Israeli propaganda ramp up to an attack on Iran, and we cannot believe that that will be a good thing. It is not going to help any Iranian to have a bomb dropped on her head. See what happened to the liberated women of Baghdad the last time that was tried. Also, for several years now there has been clear evidence of U.S. COINTEL operations in Iran, going in through Baluchistan. It's hard for us to filter that news from this distance, but many of us are now just on permanent suspicion alert.
Can you see that?
I can't believe I am going to give CueBall credit for this.. LOL.....
Sorry Dude, but put your cat back in the hat, your lack of argument has just proven to be a Shallow Hal.
I forgot that Harper looks like a friggin idiot in this picture. What a goof.
That anyone has to debate the motives of George Galloway is in of it self an example of blatant ignorance to the facts! He is a dysunctional at best and a supporter of terrorists and theocracies at worst. The worst is the most likely choice!
Israel is not "expanionist" or "Apartheid"! You want to see an eample of "expansionist and Apartheid"? Look to the "factual" history of Islam and how it conquered over 50 non Islam countries in the Middle East and North Africa- look to how Churches and Synagogues have been converted into Mosques throughout the Middle East. Notable are the "Hagia Sophia" and" Temple Mount".
You want to see examples of "Apartheid" in the Middle East and North Africa? Look to Saudi Arabias highways whose roads say " THIS WAY FOR BELIEVERS AND THAT WAY FOR UNBELIEVERS"!
How about the ongoing brutal "honour killings" in "Palestine"?At least 13 innocent "Palestinian" girls were murdered int he 1st month of 2010 in Gaza and the West Bank- source: the anti zionist "Palestine Think Tank"! Yet world outrage is set aside exclusively for Israel when they act in self defence of a "flotilla filled with terrorists" !
Why not google "12 billion missing" from the "anti zionist" "Palestine Think Tank" which describes how Abbas, Jordan and terrorist leaders have robbed Palestinians if Billions in international aid. The UNRA decicated eclusivley to Palestinians gets more money and has as many employees( 22000) as does the entire United Nations which provides less aid to all of Africa than to "Palestinians"!
There are lies and than there are "bloddy lies"- the latter best describes how the left and the worst criminal theocracies behave in regard to the treatement of the only genuine democracy in the middle east- ISRAEL!
By the way has it occcurred to anyone- left wing apologists in particular- that "Palestine" to these people happens to be the smallest part of "Palestine" ( Israel is apro. 20,0000 sq km out of 130,000 sq km that is in fact the Palestine Mandate) where Jews live and not the largest part of "Palestine"( Jordan ergo Trans Jordan - a gift from the Brits to the Hashemite for supporting their battle with the Ottoman-Southern Syria and Lebanon) where over 1000,000 Palestinians are kept as refuges by their Arabbrethren in the territory know as "Palestine"!
The hypocrosy could not be more obvious: Hamas ' and PLO Charter states " There is no room for a Jewish state in an Islamic Middle East"!
Really ? I thought that this was about a "Palestinian state " and not an "Islamic Middle East"? In addition how has it escaped the sharp left wing Christians that "Palestinians " are not only Muslim but many - well not that many as they have also been demonized and persecuted being forced to leave- "Palestinians " are not Muslim but are Gays , Christians etc.... gee I wonder how they feel about beeing forced to abide to Sharia Law in "Palestine"!
Israel is held to a standard that not one "Arab country " could possibly measure up to...in fact Israel just found Israeli soldiers guilty of "using a Palestinian child as a shield"- the fact is that half of Gaza is made up of "Palestinian children" testament to Islam that dicatates to have as many children as possible- and of course we know how Hamas uses and trains children to become "Child Soldiers" !
Wonder why Kuwait pop of Palestinians has bbeen decimated by Kuwaits ethnic cleansing while Gaza's Palestinian population has been described as " one of the nost desnley populated in the world"- The latter is referred to as "ETHNIC CLEANSING" and the Former is ignored altogether!
One thing for sure- Israel is a great democracy and those who are critical of her would never pass the test of close scrutiny that Israel faces in spite of its disproportionately tiny size and adherence to human rights while under an obvious and voluminous existential threat !
Ok if Israel is not expansionist how come it has doubled in size since 1948? When they say they "made the deserts bloom", they were serious maybe? The deserts actually grew in size?
Where do these Ziofreaks come from? As soon as one sock-puppet is banned a new one shows up.
I like that one about Trans-Jordan being a British gift to the Hashemites. As if the Brits had a right to hand over others' land to a lackey, never mind trying to curry favour with The Rothschilds and other rich western Jews in 1917 by pledging to create a Jewish home in Palestine.
It's funny how the locals are never consulted about this sort of thing.
If you understood the history of "Palestine" - beginning with the word "Palestina" a word that has nothing what so ever to do with Arabs and everything to do with Israel and Jews ergo Judea - and the ongoing ambitions of Jew haters to deligitmize the state of Israel - Romans renamed Judea "PALESTINA"- that continues to this day-
Move to the 1922 Balfour declaration and the British Palestine Mandate which promised to return the territory known as Israel = ergo Palestine- back to Jews.
The British betrayed the Jews inorder to enlist the help of the Hashemite Kingdom( Saudis) inorder to fight the Ottomans- as a reward they would give the Hashemite what was re named Trans Jordan - to day Jordan which is in fact 76% of the territory referred to as "Palestine"- you should rent the movie "Lawrence of Arabia".
So giving that fact Jews accepted far less than was promised to them- and no one should be debating the fact that Jerusalem is a Jewish city - Palestinians/ Muslims pray with their backs away from Jerusalem and the Q'uran does not mention Jerusalem evenb one time- in contrast Jews built Jerusalem and the Temple Mount just as the Christians built the Hagia Sophia in Constantinople- ergo Turkey that was conquered by Muslims and converted to a Mosque- it would be objective to say that Israel currently is "Jewish in every sense of the word historically archeologically speaking- ergo coins- literature- archetecture- artifacts- dead sea scrolls- the fact that Jews pray towards Jerusalem and that the Tanach mentions Jerusalem well over 700 times.
Israel /Jews accepts to have a state that is not "130,000 sq km " that was promised . the size of "Palestine"- but only 20,000 sq km of that 130,000 sq km.
IS 20,000 SQ KM OU OF 130,000 SQ KM 'EXPANSIONIST"? ADD THAT UNDER ISRAELI GOVERNANCE EVERYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO THEIR RELIGION AND THE RIGHT TO WROSHIP AS THEY PLEASE.
EVERYONE EXCEPT JEWS WHO ARE DENIED THE RIGHT TO THE TEMPLE MOUNT AS WAS HE CASE FOR THE POPE WHO WENT TO TURKEY WHILE MUSLISM CRINGED THAT HE WOULD MAKE THE SIGN OF THE CROSS AT THE HAGIA SOPHIA A 1000 YEAR OLD CHURCH AND ONE OF CHRISTENDOMS GREATEST!
As for "PALESTINIAN STATE HOOD" even Palestinians/Arabs agree that there was never any Palestinian nation or ambitions of Palestinian nationhood pre 1967 after the failed attack on Israel by Jordan , Egypt, Syria.
Back to 1948- if you have ther time to study the history Jews accepted the United Nations proposal and the Arabs refused- so there was no "contract" that existed for any specific territorial borders between a "Palestinian state " and Israel.
Going further- If Arabs would have won the war in 1948- 67 - 72 we would not be discussing the possibility of Jewish rights in Israel as we are currently not discussing Palestinian rights in Kuwait. The reality is that Jews would have been "ethnically cleansed" as they have been every where in the Arab Middle East.
But the thing that is really disturbing about "professional Israel bashers" is how they neglect the fact that "Palestine" ergo Jordan- Southern Syria and Lebanon keep "Palestinians " in open air refuge camps in the territory that is being disputed as a "PALESTINIAN TERRITORY"! These are the "largest " parts of "Palestine" where Arabs - the brethren of "Palestinians" live and where some 76% of Jordan is in fact "Palestinian"- and where in Syria and Lebanon "Palestinians are treated with utmost brutality by their so called "brethren "- look back some 3-4 years ago when Lebanese militia surrounded a Palestinian refuge camp( "Palestinian refuges in "Palestine" sick) and began shooting at them indescriminantly!
So when we speak of "Israeli expansionism" why are professional Israel bashers" not pointing to how Israel left Gaza? In fact Bill Gates and other
Jewish philanthropists paid for the thousands of high tech green houses built by Israelis that employed thousands of Palestinians and generated over one hundred million dollars a year in revenue.
Hamas destroyed these hot houses inorder to make certain that Israel would be demonized by the world so any help for Palestinians is contrary to their ambitions of deligitmizing Israel and turning the entire Arab Middle East into an Islamic Middle East with "no room for a Jewish state"!
With every conscession Israel is rewarded with terror. Nice eh?
How is it that professional Israel bashers say "this is not about Jews this is about Israel"...really? Than why is it that Palestinians face the death penalty if they sell a home to a Jew from let's say Iraq and not an Israeli? So the fact remains that the 'peace process" is about thhe continued ethnic cleansing of Jews which began in the Arab Middle East and ended at Israels door step!
As for those of you who claim "Zionism " is evil...really? Moses was the first Zionist", he brought Jews to the "promised" land well before the invention of Islam in the 7th century and Palestinians in 1967!
Yes GAZA is under a siege or embargo- so? Cuba also has been under a siege and Castro has not launched even a pea shooter towards America let alone 12000 rockets and counting over the last 8 years that continue unabated to this day...add what the hell is Hebollah doing in the north of Israel launching attacks into Israel?
Lebanon was invaded by Muslims with the after math of Black September in 1975 after Arafat / PLO failed to assasinate King Hussein of Jordan.
Christian Lebanon took in Palestinians- and as a sign of gratitude they got a civil war with Muslims killing Christians en masse... so who to blame? The Jews of course.Well ask Lebanese Christian Brigitte Gabriel what she thinks?
Arabs/Palestinians have enough territory but will never have enough because of the tenets of Islam which demand more and more territory- go to any where in the world where there is a large Muslim population and you will see a demand for independance and more territory- even if it means killing Buddhists in Buddhist Thailand oir Christians in Christian Phillipines- or Christians in Sudan!
In addition we all know that the flotillas are a lie- that Palestinians - leaders- are flush with cash from the UNRA and the international community. No one is starving in GAZA-
In fact on June 01 2010 the CBC had to retract a lie when they reported the events of the Mavi Marmara. Peter Mansbridge quoted Amnesty International and states that "GAZA HAD ONE OF THE HIGHEST INFANT MORTALITY RATES IN THE WORLD"- YET ANOTHER BLATANT LIE!
The source used by Amnesty was the "CIA WORLD FACT BOOK"- you can google it and see for your self that Gaza has a lower infant mortality rate than both Turkey and Iran - and that Palestinians actually have a higher standard of living than most of the Arabs in the Arab Middle East.
THE CBC AIRED A RETRACTION!
Add to this the CBC investigated the Mavi Marmara and found that the flotiilla was to blame for the incident last May!
So is 20,000 sq km of land- smaller than the state of Vermont - considered "expansionist" in contrast to the original 130,000 sq km that is in fact the territory referred to as "Palestine"?
All depends on whether you hate Jews or not! And we all know the 3500 year history of Jew hate that we now have coined "anti semitism"!
this guy's pushing the same gobbledygook:
Immigration Minister Still Harbors Terrorist Concerns About George Galloway
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/immigration-minister-still-...
"Immigration Minister Jason Kenney is making no applogies for his office's involvement in keeping a controversial former British politician out of Canada for a speaking tour. Mr. Kenney sasys he is still concerned about George Galloway giving money to "an illegal anti-Semitic violent terrorist organization called Hamas'"..
Wonder what they would use for an excuse if Israel had been placed in Africa? And people wonder why I am anti religious
Judaism is a religion - Zionism is a political ideology. The two are not the same. Jewish traditionalists like the True Torah Jews denounce Zionism as having 'hijacked' Judaism for their own evil ends
Hey Monabaker still there? Here's more on the 'great democracy' of Israel'. Even a Zionist judge can't erase the truth completely:
Goldstone Facts Chapter 10 - Indiscriminate Killing by Israeli Armed Forces Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpSDDz-vqMA
It's too bad that this turd "Monabaker" has pirated the real name of a real-life courageous defender of the rights of the Palestiinian people:
http://monabaker.com/
It would be a lot easier to post here if well-meaning babblers didn't engage our political adversaries (jtleroy, MCsquared, Gus Williams, etc. etc. etc. etc.) as if they were just slightly misguided progressive types who will be pushed to the side of the angels by just one little more fact or emotional appeal. They should be met by ridicule, taunts, and (when that grows tiresome) silence.
Geez, I come in here to close for length and look what happend. He's not even jtleroy's phoenix: he's a bird of his own creation.
Before I close, I should note that rabble's features editor and veteran journalist Cathryn Atkinson just debated the lovely Terry Glavin on an Alberta talk radio show. She basically laughed in the face of Glavin's circus act and he was none-to-pleased. Neither, I expect, were many of the show's listeners. I'm not saying Monabaker is one, but the coverage of Galloway in the media is increasingly including rabble as a radical foil to the sober, balanced and mainstream thought which paints Gorgeous George as a terrorist-supporting fascist. So I guess what I'm saying is: strap yourselves in. It's going to be a bumpy ride.
Closing for length.