unemployment statistics
Unemployment statistics.
The official unemployment statistic is entirely unreliable because people drop out of the labour force if good jobs with a level of convenience are not available. In the deep recession of the 1990's the City of Toronto labour force lost 11.15% of workers to this in four years. That is there was an additional 11.15% hidden unemployed on top of the official unemployment, at least, in just four years.
The 11.15% figure comes from a custom run on Statistics Canada labour force survey data that the City of Toronto keeps. At the peak in March 1990 the labour force was 69.6% of adults while four years latter in Feb. 1994 it was 61.84%. The arithmetic is the 11.15%. The figure clearly shows how volatile the labour force is - some 11.15% of the population found alternate means of support such that they could do other things.
The official unemployment in Canada currently is 8% or so. This is entirely unreliable as labour markets are so soft everywhere and there will be "hidden unemployment".
I've post this idea before but the City of Toronto data is nice and graphic.
I sent this statistic to the Liberal critic of immigration, who now is Justine Trudeau. I told him it had economic, political and immigration implications. I told him he was in a hot seat. He answered me with a polite letter but added "It is my sincere hope that the elimination of hidden unemployment resides in the near future." He did gettit.
I don't have to read about the unemployment statistics to know its unrealiable. There are so many underemployed people and it seems like you need a university degree to get a sales job.
And for a remotely better job, you have to have a master degree or a PHD, it just reinforces the whole idea that only rich people, and rich people who know the right people and have access to the ever rising standard of education have the opportunity to make a decent living in Toronto.
The gap between the rich and the poor, the have and the have not is totally disgusting in this city. There seems to be more jobs outside of the Toronto area, like Brampton or Mississauga, or Markham but its such a horrifying place to live in Toronto because the only choice we have is to get into more debts and go back to school, or become a sex worker or have cosmetic surgery so we can use our look to sleep with the right people or pray that we will marry into a mainstream family that can introduce us to good jobs.
Not to mention this city has so many rude drivers, the only reason I am staying here is because it's a tolerant place for transgender/transsexuals (as people in Toronto are exceptionally good at paying lip services to diversity and I have low standards, as long as people dont insult me in my face or beat me up when they found out my gender identity, I am happy :roll my eyes)
thank you for the reply, your testimony. this is pretty much what the score is. people are living the high unemployment and don't need no stinkin statistics. in addition the low wage sector is large and it's difficult to get out, lots of people are trying to find that better job. statistically the suburbs are somewhat better than toronto, the city it self is very hard hit.
in fact this has all become very political and I have writen a book about it, albeit unpublished so far. the book features unsung statistics but is more about the ferment on the street about the soft labour markets. eventually my book should sell because the story is about human nature.
I'm sorry you're having it rough takeitslowly. to be optomistic I will say keep trying. in the 1970s the baby boom aged and while the first half of the baby boom found jobs the second half was hit by the 1973 world economic down turn and never actually recovered. however what happened is over time the second half of the baby boomers fit in. they eventually did find better jobs although it was a slow process that took years.
everything requires a degree these days. there's a word for it, qualification inflation. this is as you say. there are a lot of people with degrees though. the unsung alternative is to learn about a field by working in it. the economy is dominated be small and medium businesses and these all require someone to specialize in them. sometimes the terrible businesses offer opportunity. it's really the traditional way of working but makes more sense again as the number of people with degrees is high.
the population is aging and retirement will open up opportunity for young people, there should be a return to growth and immigration to toronto could be tamed. so the future may be different than the last 20 years.
I think they should create jobs by government order, like they did in the US during the depression. People could be hired to build bridges and roads, highways, railways, paint murals and participate in stage plays for the public and so on. They aren't doing enough in Toronto and Ottawa to actually get people back to work and, instead, have continued to try and fix things with monetary policy. Neoliberalism doesn't work.
That's all deficit spending is fidel. It expands the economy according to the consumer rather than specific government infrastructure programs. Interestingly it doesn work very well, the spending per job is more than what a job costs. The thing is a mess.
Oh, look. Another anti-imigration thread. Gotta "tame" that imigration so us real Canadians can get ahead right? I will ask again, why do you think that the settler government of canada gets to control imigration? It's not a treaty right that they were given. And why do you blame everything on imigration, bruce? This is the second thread that you have started claiming that imigration is the source of Toronto's problems.
all countries have always controlled the border, I don't know what your arguement about that is.
toronto is hurting, witness takeitslowly's post. the statistics on Toronto are grim. I only argue that you should get the immigration numbers right. there'd be some improvements. that's pro-immigrants that are here, not anti-immigrant.
statistics offices generally adopt International Labour Organization (ILO) standards for accounting for employment/unemployment so that they are comparable among countries and regions
http://laborsta.ilo.org/sti/sti_E.html
thanks for the link. I knew that the ILO set the standard. All the oecd countries would have the same problem with hidden unemployment. the labour force level varies all over the board in the oecd. I note it is high is some of the nordic socialists countries; people don't depend on government assistance there.
Would you care to explain exactly where you are coming from on this, Le T. I understand FN alienation and settler government faults - hell, I just heard how Judge John Riley has called all settler law into question where it involves First Nationa people...and he makes sense - but what does the FN/settler question have to do, exactly with the post you find so offensive? You display more alienation than good sense.
There are a limited number of jobs, so complaining about immigrations effects are necessary. In a capitalist society supply of workers = high competition for jobs = high stress.
You should stop being so reactionary and learn to deal with truth. If human beings are so good and worth being protected, how has the canadian and US state been subject so such corporate decay?
People on the left need to learn that every human being is NOT their friend and would not do the same for them, this saviour complex of north american left is a bit disturbing.
Long-term unemployment in Canada has doubled: OECD from July
"how has the canadian and US state been subject so such corporate decay?"
Go to your library and ask for Robert B. Reich's After-Shock. Look up the chapter on "Howwe Got Outselves into the Same Mess Again" . If not available in your library, put in a request, or go to your local independent bookstore and shell out $28.95. Or maybe Naomi Klein's new book is going to be equally (or more) instructive.
@#$$$$%%$$$
Thanks for your insightful comments and a special thank you to bruce for opening up rabble to such a great thread!
Let me get this straight. The fact that there "aren't enough jobs" is the reason that you are allowed to "complain" about immigration? Does it also mean that we should hypothesize about how many un-employed works should be allowed to live or how many children workers should be allowed to have? It's not about human rights, it's just getting the numbers right so that we can all have jobs. If we just let the right amount of people die of poverty, left without EI or decent welfare/disability/WSIB...if we just sterilize the right amount of women...if we just deny migration rights to the right amount of people...if we could just get those numbers dialled in we'd be all set. No more unemployment, no more poverty, no more crime. Fucking utopia.
I don't really know what "corporate decay" is but i would assume that it is just your way of saying "general suckiness". If you think that immigrants are responsible for the general suckiness that you experience every day you are probably right, but you are probably concerned with the wrong immigrants.
The Canadian state does not have the right to limit, control, reduce, increase, stratify, crack-down-on, aggregate, sugically adjust, re-calibrate, or otherwise interfere with migration to Turtle Island. The specific international treaties that allow for the state of Canada to exist here do not give it the right to limit who can use the land. In many places the ownership of land is also not treatied and this is ignored by settler governments. To add to this, Canada has ignored many of its treaty obligations while maintaining and (unilaterally) expanding its treaty rights.
Something that even well-read, open-minded, liberal settler Canadians often forget (or never knew) is that Canada only exists because of its treaties. They are even part of the constitution and if you are going to use the concept of the Canadian state to enact political power (i.e. muse about immigration policy, or any other) then you must defer to the treaties as the source of power.
As an aside, I came across this article yesterday in "The Harper Index" written by Mark Zwelling.
About those lost jobs: How to talk about the economy now
I didn't see this thread before now.
bruce, I'm suspending your account indefinitely. I will talk to Catchfire about you and the threads you insist on starting in defiance of babble's pro-worker, pro-immigration and anti-oppression policy, but it will probably be permanent.
Le T, thank you so so so much for your words.
George, don't say babblers lack good sense.
Thanks for the link, Polunatic, maybe this thread can be recovered.
The P.E.I. government is renewing its community internship program for another year, and is still considering what to do with a similar program in public sector jobs.
The programs gave new university and college graduates six-month, paid internships working with non-profit organizations and groups or in government jobs.
Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/prince-edward-island/story/2011/01/04/pei-internship-campbell-584.html#ixzz1A4gY2Fjh
I'm sorry, but this is a strawman, and it's being given more validity here than bruce the vii's argument. He was making a secondary point that if a nation or region cannot employ its citizens, why is it importing more people? I recognize that it sounds like an anti-immigration argument, but how about a simple analysis that logically deconstructs it, rather than merely attacking it, and him, on the basis of perceived racism?
I for one, would really appreciate and benefit from such an argument, because I have to admit, from my own personal circumstances, I sympathize with bruce the vii's sentiments. I can imagine the possibility that he's not speaking from a de facto racist or anti-immigration point of view, but possibly simply making some erroneous assumptions.
What are these erroneous assumptions? Please help us those of us who don't know.
Again, I think you're making something out of this person's argument that wasn't there.
I would be happy to do so, but why aren't you bringing this issue up for every other Babble topic that muses on "the concept of the Canadian state to enact political power"? Why are you picking on this topic that you perceive as racist and anti-immigration?