Eat vegetarian at work - the leftovers

I find it interesting that this thread on "workers rights" has gone to two pages, whereas the one on women being told to dress sexy for their job petered out at only a few posts.

Just the missionary ones al-Q, just the missionary ones.

My daughter's school has a "no meat" policy because it's a Jewish school and they don't want kids bringing non-kosher meat into the school. There's also a "no peanuts" policy because of allergy concerns. It makes it a bit of a pain in teh ass but we knew the rules going in and agreed to them. It's hardly an undue hardship.

That's a safety concern, not a morality concern.

Aint that the truth.  We met up with old friends on the weekend that we hadn't seen in over ten years.  We went out for supper, and she noticed that both of us ordered meatless and she was completely gobsmacked about it.  "Whaaaaaaat????  You don't eat MEAT?  Really??  When did that happen????  What DO you eat???"   You would have sworn we had admitted to joining some clandestine baby eating cult or something. 

It is strange, and I don't understand it.  Most dietary choices have no effect on other people's emotional state.  But mention that you're a vegetarian and some people get quite uncomfortable (very noticeably).

I can't explain it.  I don't think it is repressed guilt, nor can I think of any other reason for the reaction.

I agree Dodger, I know when I tell people that I don't eat meat I generally get a lengthy description of their meat based diet and how little meat they actually eat and how organic they shop and so on.  Sometimes it sounds like they are apologizing for not being vegetarian while at the same time explaining that they "almost are" vegetarian while at the same time insisting that they love their meat too much to give it up.   Back in the day, I would have simply ordered a burger, they would have had the same, and dietary choices would never have come up in conversation.  It is odd.

Edit to add:  I get similar responses from my smoker friends when they notice I don't smoke anymore.

I will add to it to make it clear it is not just jewish religious schools I despise.

Jewish schools are the same as fundamentalist christian schools for preaching the same Chosen People shit.  I do not believe anyone who tells me that their god chose them or speaks to them and I think that as more and more people of various fundamentalist faiths send their children to indoctrination centers the more fucked up and intolerant our society gets.  I would have said the same comment to a born again.

kropotkin, while your anti-religious-schools thread drift is noted as not being only about Jewish schools, the term Chosen People, especially when capitalized, is a well-known reference to Jewish people and is used as an anti-Semitic slur.

It's not okay.

Please retract or acknowledge this. And we should stop with any further drift of the thread topic.

Thanks kropotkin. 

Now, back to the thread topic!

Mostly in response to polly bee's anecdotes about dining with carnivores.

I think there is a distinction that should be drawn between discussions that take place before a meal, and those that take place during a meal.

Before the meal, whether it be deciding on a restaurant or settling on a menu to be cooked at home, I think it is quite valid to raise questions as to whether any of the (potential) diners has dietary restrictions - self-imposed or otherwise - or strong aversions to something. In my experience, I don't think vegetarians or vegans are necessarily singled out or ostracized on this basis.

Perhaps my experience is skewed (I have family members with very severe [potentially life threatening] allergies to certain food items), and have been responsible for providing "refreshments" or meals where "consumers" of the food have "diverse" dietary restrictions (veggie, vegan, Muslim, Mormon, etc.). I think it is incumbent on me to inquire in advance if there are any food restrictions that apply (asking at a meeting if anyone has food allergies that I should watch out for, things that should be avoided or that they should be alerted about for personal or religious reasons) -- whether I am an individual who is hosting or if I am volunteering to provide a service within a group, it is up to me to inquire in advance. The flip side of this is that I think that it is the responsibility of the person who is operating under the food restriction to speak up and provide information that makes my task possible (okay veggie, but are you strictly vegan or an ova-lacto vegetarian? is it sufficient to avoid pork and shellfish, or should I make sure that any "dead animal" that may be there has come from a halal butcher? I know enough to avoid lard in baked goods, but if the vanilla flavouring is out of a bottle (i.e., suspended in alcohol) rather than fresh vanilla beans does the fact that the alcohol itself will boil off during baking suffice or is the end product still haram?)

On one level I understand that no-one wants to be singled out for the "inquisition", but reasonable accomodation requires information... and particularly in those situations where someone's food restrictions are based on ritual purity, don't assume this carnivorous atheist (or anyone else) is sufficiently concerned about the intricacies of another's particular superstitions to be familiar with the minutiae.

When food is actually being consumed, I think the onus shifts. As tempting as it may sometimes be to drop an "ew, how can you eat that" that bomb (something I am tempted to do when people are gorging on broccoli or cauliflower or head cheese... my three big NO WAY is that passing my lips items) I think it is the height of discourtesy to talk about anyone else's meal other than to inquire if they are enjoying their choice (okay, perhaps a couple of variants - the "I have never tried that before, what is it like - is it enjoyable" and the "oh, nice choice, I wish I had order that too"). So-called jokes about whether what the other person is consuming is "just bunny food", "has more calories than is good for you", "smells funny", "had a mother" and the flip side "you don't know what you are missing" are out of line. They are rude and judgemental and during a meal is not the time to be doing it debating someone else's food choices (or pontificating about your own).

With a couple of very, very memorable exceptions (in my experience at least) the people who feel the least responsibility to contain their rudeness fall into one of two camps. The first of those are the "white bread, meat and 'taters" crowd - and I think it is these that the vegetarians and vegans in our midst have been referring to and I don't think I have to go on at any great length describing their rude behaviour.

The second camp (and hats off to j.m. in the previous thread for identifying them) are, to paraphrase, "Western vegetarians and vegans". While my evidence is only anecdotal, I feel that their rude commentary and dietary chauvinism has disrupted way too many food sharing occasions for me to excuse them. What offends me the most is to listen to them belittle volunteers who have given of their time to purchase, prepare and present "refreshments" at meetings and other social events (and the harshness of their criticism seems to have an inverse relationship to their willingness to take on the voluntary work of providing the refreshments). That others do not know the details of, or share the militant fervour about, someone's dietary regime does not grant anyone a pass on being courteous. While "rules of hospitality" may not be as formal in contemporary Canadian society as they may have been in the past (or still are in other settings), along with the host's responsibility to accomodate the guest, is the guest's (or participants if it is not a hosted event) responsibility to accept that the host's efforts are presented with the best of intentions and good will.

It's OK... it doesn't really contain any cheese.

I never said they weren't a fine company otherwise, just that it does seem like an excessive intrusion into their workers' lives.

That's deeply irrelevant. Who cares if they're a fine company or not? If they say, please don't bring meat on the premises, that's the end of the story. Please respond to the example of the Muslim-run laundromat that requests that customers and employees not bring pork onto the premises.

How about these hybrids?

They taste just the same as the white, IMV.