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There seemed to be a recognition that this all needs to change, but my God what a huge bureaucracy. The place is massive and built at a time when labour, space, and marble were all cheap. I can see where there would be a disconnect between those who work there and those they're supposed to serve. I have for the most part worked for small community based agencies which are flexible in their responsiveness to community needs. I have to remember that this is like asking a supertanker to make a hair pin turn.
Anyone I've spoken too in the regional offices absolutely hates that there are not individually assigned workers, and know full well they can't do their jobs as well. Those changes were purely financially motivated, and came from the bean counters in the Premiers office because it looks more efficient on paper. The client service people also have huge workloads.
Anyway, I'm not going to do too much more with this until I'm approached and told what they want from me. I've got enough material now that I can put a presentation together in an afternoon.
Over and over again, the Tories implemented solutions without understanding the dynamics of the problem. Not that this is unique to that government, mind you.
The kind of bureaucractic dysfunction you present here is actually (unintentially, mostly) designed in.
So last Monday, I did what was the first of a series of presentations. I'm scheduled every 90 days or so into next year. This will be part of a mandatory training for new workers that they have to have by their first three months.
I think it went OK. The content was good, but I feel my presentation could use a bit of tarting up. I'm going to try to make it more interactive in the future, rather than just lecture style. I got some useful feedback from a co-presenter who was speaking on behalf of HIV positive ODSP users. (boy, there's a group that needs good advocacy!) Her presentation was great. My challenge for the next time is to provoke a bit more of a response from the audience. Problem is, it's not so much the new hire's that are the problem, it's some of the people who've been around for 20 years.
Anyway, the project is up and running, and thanks again to all for their suggestions and encouragement!
[ 09 July 2004: Message edited by: oldgoat ]
Last May ... I hadn't forgotten what I was doing last May, but most of the time I have it fairly well repressed. Lotta water under the bridge since then.
I think you should read that, verbatim, to your class. It's something the bureaucrats need to hear.
Well It's been a year, and I've spoken to about 500 people now, in groups of 20 -30. In return, I got a nice thank you letter from the Deputy Minister, and a Ministry of Community and Social Services hat and shirt. They're quite tasteful, and have somehow made the effort all worth it.
ODSP is hiring a lot of new people, not just to keep up with attrition, but to expand capacity. I've already noticed shorter wait times in getting through. For this reason, my gig has been extended indefinitly, at least well into the fall.
Michelle, when I first saw that post, I thought you were addressing Verbatim the babbler. Didn't know what the hell you were talking about.
[img]redface.gif" border="0[/img] [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
Anyway, I do exactly that. It's quite well received. I remain pleased with the feedback I'm getting. I think in time some of the more egregious systemic problems are going to be addresed, such as going back to workers having individual case loads, and workers going to meet clients in their homes more. This will not happen quickly.
As a bonus, I've gotten to know my regular co-presenters a bit better; a Public Health Aids educator, and an advocate from the Canadian Parapalegic association. They're both very effective.
It's always interesting to read that long post you made (the one you should be reading to verbatim, of course [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img] ). I generally read it again whenever the thread is bumped.
Now, that was partly because I dreaded most thoughts. Seriously: I was more and more aware of how much I was losing, of losing our life bit by bit day by day, so having people who wouldn't have been there normally walk into our life and begin to give direction of even the tiniest kind just felt like another violation. I see no way around those feelings, actually.
But on top of that, I was worrying that social workers were going to be ... how can I put this? ... touchy-feely in ways that I really didn't have the patience for. Now, that was a mistake. It would have been good for me to have met one of them, especially, months earlier than I did. She was -- is, I guess -- one of the snappiest, smartest, most efficient and effective people I've ever met, very quick with the assessments, and most reassuring in a great-broad sort of way (although she is a deceptively tiny, delicate-looking person).
In fact, if someone had to come into our home -- and, sadly, more than a few did -- she was definitely a good person to be doing it, more positive than not.
My experiences with social workers have actually been very positive in general. I admit that I was surprised, and I am probably a dork for being surprised, but I was. I think that social workers get a bad rep in some parts for the wrong reasons.
The SW's who can be really bad, are oten the ones who represent the state in some capacity, and that goes to their heads. This can apply to welfare workers or housing workers. In my capacity, I do what I do soley at the request of my client. The minute they indicate they no longer wish an association with my agency I'm gone.
One of the people advising my wife early on told her that as a CAS worker she had fairly huge legal powers to intervene in peoples lives, but that there was no reason to shake that stick around. You can get much better outcomes for everyone by being respectful, positive, and eliciting co-operation rather than by compelling it legally.
[ 12 August 2005: Message edited by: oldgoat ]
Basically, I've been doing my presentation every 3 months (except when I don't feel like it) and will do so indefinitly, or as long as they continue to have staff turnover.
A huge change in the ODSP system that came a bit over a year ago, that I and everyone else was lobbying for is that clients have specifically assigned workers. That means when I call someone, they usually will know me, my client, and probably some of the history of what I might be talking about. This makes advocacy about a gazillion times more effective, not to mention the whole system is way less time consuming.
Further, I can with a little coaching have my clients do more of their own advocacy and routine dealings.
There are all sorts of little changes that are sort of a two steps forward one and a half steps backward things, but life goes on.
It's still a bureaucracy from hell, but it's been replaced on my shitlist by the Canada Pension Plan Disability people. They are insidiously polite but useless. Their service requires substantial co-ordination with ODSP, but they behave like any sort of co-operation will add to their personal time in purgatory or something.
GAAH! Such to my knowledge does not exist.
I very recently finished a 6 month romp in the park dealing with a CPP/ODSP communication problem. The good news is that I got an extra $200 per month for my client and just over $5000 in retroactive pay. An ODSP worker commented on a potential discrepency during a routine review, but took no ownership for dealing with it. Actually, CPP is off my shitlist for now.
Actually, I'll ask around for you. There might be something.
Hopefully ODSP won't claw that money back or at the very least claim that they are ineligibel for benefit for the period they receive the back pay.
As far as workers go I was amazed and thrilled(no really) when I was in contact with one ODSP worker who was efficient, easy to contact and quick to return calls, pleasant, and compassionate. She was gone within a few weeks later though.
http://www.legalaid.on.ca/en/links/community.asp
ETA: Find a Community Legal Clinic in your area and they should be able to help you.
[ 23 October 2007: Message edited by: RevolutionPlease ]
My experience with workers who I have had to deal with if mine is off is still very positive.
I have a client who has been caught in a messy limbo between ODSP and EI, and for various reasons has not been reporting or giving required info to these bureaucracies. He found himself totally broke, no food, getting nothing from either, and scheduled to move in two weeks with nothing to pay a mover.
Anyway, after I got stuff largely ironed out between EI and ODSP, his ODSP worker volunteered to come in on Monday morning even though he's got the day booked off to finish sorting out all the numbers and make sure he get a cheque issued immidiatly, as well as rushing his community startup money.
I thought that was pretty nice. I've always said, when you do finally end up talking to a real person, they can be quite helpful.
The big trouble with EI (with whom I have very little to do) is that they depend so heavily on complex multi layered phone menu's, and it's hard to get a real person. When you do, they're nice enough, but don't really know the case, and aren't too invested.
I am a second year law student who represents clients with their ODSP appeals. Your discussion thread about your presentations etc were extremely interesting and helpful for both sides of the problem.
Have you ever compiled your presentation into something that can be shared with others as a teaching model or better yet, would you be able to provide training to new case workers like myself?
Eagerly awaiting your reply...
Hi, and thanks
My little presentation is actually just that. Kind of little. Back when I started, and note that this thread is almost 5 years old now, the presentatiion was pretty scripted. Now it's partially scripted, but I prefer to extemporise, and if the group takes things in a different direction, that's great. Actually, when no one asks questions it's pretty short.
I describe my role, and elaborate a bit on why I often find myself talking to ODSP workers. I talk a bit about the world of mental illnes, and what it's like to try to talk to a bureaucrat on the phone about something complicated when you're taking 1200 mg of Seroquel, 40 mg of Citalopram, and maybe some sort of Benzodiazapine thrown in. I talk about first episode, and sort of give a thumbnail description of axis 1 disorders. not too much of that though, 'cause the goal is more to give a sense of what it feels like than what it is. I use the case study I used above. Mainly I try to be positive and not just there to give heck and find fault. I think that's important. There's other stuff too.
If your interested in more, feel free to email me. My agency gives me a fair bit of freedom to do what I want with this as long as I get my core duties done. I wouldn't mind more people doing this sort of thing, but particularly consumers. Actually, I've been trying to hand it off to one or a panel of consumers, but haven't had any takers.
[ 16 April 2008: Message edited by: oldgoat ]
Is anyone here certain whether a person who is on ODSP and receiving financial benefits can collect EI financial benefits at the same time?
I wouldn't want to go so far as to say I'm "certain", but I don't believe you can collect both at the same time. Or even if you could collect both in theory, I believe ODSP would clawback the money received from EI.
That's my strong impression, but maybe someone else can confirm this with more certainty.
You can't even collect donations from friends while on ODSP. Our priorities are truly fucked.
Definitely not. You cannot be involved with both systems at the same time.
Hello there. I'm hoping someone can help me out here. I was diagnosed with depression a few years ago and am no longer on my medication as I don't have drug coverage. I left work in August due to company restructuring and until recently I was receiving sick benefits through EI. I'm caring for my severely disabled sister, who's going to have major abdominal surgery sometime in the new year. I hope that her surgeon will fill out the form for me to receive Compassionate Care benefits, which will be for 6 weeks. If he doesn't fill out the form (we see him tomorrow) I'll have to apply for EI benefits. When my doctor first signed me off for sick benefits he stated in the note that he didn't want me to work until the new year, but I'm hoping I can apply for EI earlier than that, because obviously I'll still need some sort of income. The problem is that when you're on EI you're expected to look for work full-time, but how can I do so with my sister's extenuating health issues as well as my own?? My sister receives ODSP benefits. Is there anything else I can do, or can someone help me?? The last thing I want to do is apply for OW as I know what my maximum benefit would be there, and I can't live on that. This situation is most certainly NOT helping my depression. Thanks ever so much for any help, and Merry Christmas!!!!
dotmacis,
Best of luck with your sister's surgeon. I hope he approves the compassionate care benefits. I don't know what else to suggest to address your immediate needs. I don't know much about EI, having never been involved with that program. If your depression has been ongoing for several years, I would think that you might qualify for ODSP yourself. ODSP would provide you with more to live on than you would receive from OW. Unfortunately, even if you would be eligible for ODSP, this likely won't address your immediate needs, as the intake process can drag-on for quite some time. I believe applicants are normally given OW benefits until their ODSP application has been dealt with. If accepted onto ODSP, you should receive ODSP benefits retroactive to the start of your application process (minus OW benefits already received), but as I said, this doesn't give you much to live on in the short-term.
Dotmatics I would apply for EI although you are supposed to be looking for work there aren't really stringent conditions that need to be met to demonstrate that you are looking for work. You just tell them that you are willing and looking for work and they accept that. Unfortunately there are not a number of options applying for ODSP takes about a minimum of 3 months and that is if your claim is accepted first time around. If you do apply for ODSP make sure that you have a doctor who understands the form to fill it out. Many doctors fill in these forms in a manner that underestimates a persons disability and therefore they are rejected. Good luck.