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Thanks Dreamfilm appreciate the info.
I'd accept that as a birthday present. Sexy li'l devil.
I just remembered that in Vancouver, a few years ago I knew someone who had a funky electric car. I rode in it is a couple of times. It didn't have a high range per charge about 40 kms but it was fine fo what he regularly needed.I think he said he got it from somewhere on Vancouver Island so I did some looking to see if I could find out where. Didn't find the car but...
I found trucks!
http://www.canev.com/about%20us/about%20us%20index.htm
They also have conversion kits for other vehicles including small size trucks.
So there we go. No need to wait for the big corps to do it. Pick a vehicle and for between 6000-10000 bucks DIY it.
Conversions have been around a long time. They are not experimental, and the methods and construction have became semi-standardized. Ditto for all the components. The battery weights are even heavier than vehicles we are talking about above, because they use lead-acid batteries [which by the way are already easy to buy as 100% recycled and recyclable].
I am guessing the DIYs will start bringing in lithium batteries as the cost and availability of those go down. Anyone who builds with lead acid batteries, will have a structure that they can 'plug' in the lithium or ni-cad batteries and get considerably more range.
Pick-ups are the easiest to convert- and you can put the battery packs under the bed.
You can get ranges much more than 40km. That range would be with minimal equipment, and/or allowing for very sub-optimal conditions for the trip.
Tractors would be DIY only, and will probably remain that way for some time, for the reasons noted above. The "range" issues with a tractor would depend what you are doing and how long you need to do it between charges. The DIY hybrid- an onboard fossil fuel powered generator- would be easier than with a motor vehicle. An idea that occurs to me is that you could just have the electrics running the hydraulics, as long as the batteries are capable. But I've never even looked at the DIY tractors, I hust know they exist- and the learning curve and ease of getting components would probably be comparable to DIY EVs 20 years ago.
I just did some looking. I have seen one covered in a magazine. DIY power or Mother Earth maybe I can't remember.
Here's two links:
http://www.ruralsurvival.com/electric_farm_tractor.html
one from 2003
http://www.eeevee.com/tractors/TNF_article.html
Interesting that back in 2003 he talked about how EVs regularly beat out gassers in pulls.
In the first link the end paragraph caught my eye.
Anyone know or heard anything about this sort of tech? Here's a BBC link to 2008 article http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7241909.stm
I'm going to do some looking.
On the site I posted it says you can get lithium batteries for between 10,000 to 15,000 to get more range. Expensive for now it looks like.
Almost no one in the DIY world is going to plop for lithium batteries now. Just a few hobbyists for whom price never has been much consideration. [For example, people who convert Porsche Cayenne's, and equip them to accelerate even better than with an internal combustion engine.]
Depending on the applications, the price of lithium batteries is already dropping fast. Laptop batteries are already cheap. Which is why as I mentioned above Tesla has decided to switch to packs made of those- despite they were not designed for it. There are already several serious players in the battery packs designed and manufactured for EVs, including a joint venture with the plant in Michigan being built now, at a shuttered vehicle assempbly plant of course. It will only be a few years before the prices of those drop to the per kilowatt cost of the laptop batteries Tesla in buying into for now.
Michigan by the way is backing companies big time going into battery development and manufacture. Despite the US lagging behind the Korean and Japanes companies [who the joint ventures are with]. And direct investment in R&D for next generation battery development. Ontario and the feds have stood by and picked their noses- even with Magna being the developer of the Ford EV technology, and Stronach promoting the building of EVs in Canada.
For DIYs cost is not the only disadvantage of lithium battery packs. Despite the general inferiority of lead-acid batteries, there is decades of experience putting them in EVs, plus all the fork lifts running on the same batteries. Let the deep pockets work out the wrinkles that come with any new technology. Lithium batteries are not new, and they've been in hybrids for several years. But thats still new enough for DIYs keeping tabs on enough issues in building a vehicle.
The Harper and Iggy caucus (and I guess the Ontario government) are made up of dinosaurs that are indebted to the oil industry and especially the tar sands. Both Harper and Iggy support the tar sands, and I think both McSquinty and Charade do as well. I doubt any of these guys want to see an EV future, but it could be forced on them. The first step is to vote the bastards out of office, or at least give the NDP both federally and provincially enough clout to have minority governments adopt more sound environmentally-friendly legislation that looks favourably on the development, engineering, and, ultimately, production of EVs.
It is the auto industry that wants help for moving to the electric age. So they arent the dinosaurs that are holding this back.
Michigan just made a decision to not let everything die around them, and to get out the hustle. I dont know what Ontario's problem is. We're not talking much in the way of government funds. Most of it has been hustle- helping to put the pieces together.
I don't think I ever suggested it's the auto industry that are the dinosaurs, Ken.
True.
Here is the 'textbook' on DIY:
Build Your Own Electric Vehicle. Second Edition 2009 [first edition is pretty out of date]
And a Canadain book:
Zero-Carbon Car. Building the Car the Auto Industry Can't Get Right
This has much more on social, economic, and enviro considerations. Including the best discussion on the whole cycle of inputs into an EV or hybrid.
And there is a good detailed discussion of building one car. But it is a unique project, and he admitts the car he chose to convert is unusual [I think simply because he owned it already].
His argument is that the best low carbon choice is a hybrid that has a diesel generator burning bio-diesel. So that is the car he built.
I take an overall systems and longer term view towards the best low carbon choice. But even if you are looking purely for your least contribution to carbon right now; then for less hassle than the on board bio-deisel generator, you put in PVs or wind turbine for charging the batteries. Or just do the more straightforward work of a diesel vehicle to burn bio-diesel you produce.
Of course the hybrid has unlimited range. But that just assumes you need to fit into existing jump in and go notions of personal transportation. And so what if your EV cant do everything you need a vehicle for. Even a single person can have a modest second vehicle for the longer or extreme cold weather trips.
At any rate, I think Kemp's book is the best general discussion.
And "when my horse comes in", as they say, I'll buy an electric for about-town only.
Meanwhile, upgrading Waterloo Region's bus service is number one on the political agitation list. It's much more likely to be useful for me than counting on that nag's win.
Thanks for the book recommendations.
I'm not going to jump into EV's for personal use in the near future but the DIY options are fodder for thought. I'm really interested in what's possible for the agriculture side of things. I think if I was to get into some sort of DIY project I'd look at playing with a tractor rather then a car at this point. :)
In principle, I can see how the tractor makes more sense as a DIY project. All the more so if you already own a tractor.
And have a modest chunk of a little cash/capital and time available. The conversion will cost less than a used but newish tractor would cost you. And cost WAY less if you happen to have a tractor with a blown engine, that you replaced but kept with the intention to rebuild it.
I don't know tractors, but for a conversion I'm guessing that as long as the hydraulics were good, it would not matter how old the beast was. That is not true for converting on the road motor vehicles- where 'older' is OK as long as it isn't rusty, but converting an old car is just asking for trouble. [If you wouldnt rebuild the engine in that 1990 Tercel, why in the hell would you put even more work into converting it to electric?]
There is a similar logic for people who already have and use pick-ups and vans, where 70km or under per day is the norm.
Well other reasons I'd likely look at a tractor is that it would fit right in with some of the other things going on right now around here. There's an amazing and growing community of motivated people looking at all things 'food' and ag. So I see a better possibility of it happening as a group project rather then an individual one in terms of interest, sharing costs and sharing know how as well as getting a tractor to use in the first place. Just off the top of my head I can think of three individuals that have older, smaller ones that they no longer use or barely use except for the odd jobs here and there. At least one of those people is already a tinker of an experimental nature. Heck if I showed him this possibility he's liable to just go out and do it himself and then say 'here yah all go folks, test out the baby."
I am a long way from finishing my own project. [Long story. But typical, even if it doesnt seem like it to me.]
While I have good general mechanical skills- that is 'mecahnical' VERY broadly speaking. I just worked on cars and boat engines because I had to. Even the used ones got way beyond me 20 years ago. So my knowledge about fixing motor vehicles is patchy and limited.
Electrics are conceptually simpler, and cleaner. And there are just fewer parts. You still have to deal with brakes, or hydraulics on a tractor. But I find it easier to relate to. More mysteries and fewer people to ask about them, because there is no shop manual. But that hardly matters in the internet age. You can easily find multiple people who have dealt with the same thing.
I think EVs make sense for warmer climates and where driving conditions are really good. More and better mass public transit is the answer according to the futurists. Roads and highwats are expensive to maintain.
And as for flying cars, I think anti-gravity vehicles are very futuristic. Perhaps sooner than later if the guys at CERN discover new laws of nature, or something. Perhaps any such vehicles would be better suited to mass transit and piloted by really-really well trained people or even automated. But I think most of us would not feel safe with 16 year-olds flying around the skies with even learners permits. And if the militaries of the world are experimenting with fantastic propulsion technologies, they surely won't want to handoff any such technology to the public or their enemies.
A far, far cry from a flying car, but still fun to watch:
World's First Commercial Jetpack To Be Sold For $75,000
excerpt:
Its fuel capacity is five gallons, but its consumption is ten gallons an hour, which results in an operation time of around 30 minutes on a full tank. FAA regulations limit the maximum speed to 63 mph, which means the furthest a pack can travel on one tank is about 31.5 miles. When empty, the Jetpack weighs 250 pounds and can carry a pilot of over 280 pounds.
The jetpack complies with FAA Ultralight Regulations, and though users will not need a pilot's license to fly the equipment, they will be required to complete Martin's training program before receiving their jetpack. Training for the first ten owners will be held in New Zealand, where the company is headquartered.
Closing for length.