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Democratic Congresswoman Shot in Arizona

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Catchfire
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Joined: Apr 16 2003

This is the second time in two years that someone has targeted liberals (sic) in a mass shooting.

These shooting strongly suggest what we have always said about the American crypto-fascist right: the underside of their catroonish, inflated and highly pitched rhetoric is blood, violence and death.


Catchfire
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Joined: Apr 16 2003

oldgoat wrote:
Looking forward to the response from the Palin camp and the Teabaggers in general.  AlthoughI'm sure it will make me want to barf when I see it.

From her facebook page:

Quote:
My sincere condolences are offered to the family of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and the other victims of today's tragic shooting in Arizona. 

On behalf of Todd and my family, we all pray for the victims and their families, and for peace and justice.

- Sarah Palin

10,511 people like this.


Boom Boom
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Joined: Dec 29 2004

Just watched Governor Jan Brewer, clearly traumatized by this, calling the Congresswoman her friend and colleague, and has ordered all flags in the state to fly at half mast. I used to vacation in New Mexico and Arizona (Phoenix and Tucson), and am feeling really upset right now.


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

NorthReport wrote:

Is the first kick at the can to kill Obama's heath reform legislation?

Who cares?

Anyway, when it comes to murdering people abroad, all factions in the U.S. seem united. I'm sorry to see the brutes killing their own, but one must truly take it all in its proper context. This is a country which the people of the world must bring down - Dems, Reps, Teas, and all.


2dawall
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Joined: Apr 12 2010

WilderMore wrote:

If she'd been a Republican, which based on her profile above she could very well be, I don't think there'd be as much emotion about this shooting. Correction - as much sad emotion. If she'd been Republican the emotion would be ....Shadenfreud? Is that right?

Not from my quarter; why would you assume that? If it is true that a nine-year old girl is one of the deceased, I am pretty sure nobody has anything but tears for that. I feel intense anger and sadness at the same time. At the time I was reading the original pieces, I was listening to Led Zeppelin's cover of "For What's Its Worth" and the line "there is a man with a gun over there" was far more impactful than I could ever recall previously. This is a bad omen of what is to come and to what is surely to accelerate.

* * *

...

The dissolve of the United States will be many bangs and whimpers at the same time continuously.

 


contrarianna
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Joined: Aug 15 2006

WilderMore wrote:

If she'd been a Republican, which based on her profile above she could very well be, I don't think there'd be as much emotion about this shooting. Correction - as much sad emotion. If she'd been Republican the emotion would be ....Shadenfreud? Is that right?

How many of the 26 preceding post do you see focused on "sad emotion"?

Since most of the previous posts focus on the uses of violence imagery employed for political change in the US, maybe you could try to make a reverse case to demonstrate a comparble frenzied culture of establishment Democrat gun brandishing, congresperson targeting, ads out there which is likely to lead to a Republican politicians shooting.


NorthReport
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Joined: Jul 6 2008

This is a very well tried and truly effective way to discourage anyone who does not have the most conservative views from getting involved in politics in the USA. No wonder they are so fucked.

 

Hopefully this will be the end of both Palin politically and the Tea Party

Quote:
3:11 PM ET Giffords' Father: 'The Whole Tea Party' An Enemy Of Giffords

 

The New York Post:

 

Her father Spencer Giffords, 75, wept when asked if his 40-year-old daughter had any enemies.

 

"Yeah," he told The Post. "The whole tea party."

 

 

 


WilderMore
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Joined: Dec 1 2009

oldgoat wrote:

Looking forward to the response from the Palin camp and the Teabaggers in general.  AlthoughI'm sure it will make me want to barf when I see it.

 

Wildermore, I'm not sure where you're coming from, but that was kind of a jerk response.

...and yours isn't?


NorthReport
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Joined: Jul 6 2008

Who breeds people like this?


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

Gabrielle Giffords - last year - supporting the sending of tens of thousands of additional troops into Afghanistan:

Quote:
The most enduring tribute to those who lost their lives on September 11, 2001 is to make sure Afghanistan never again becomes a safe haven for al Qaeda terrorists and their allies. It was clear to me when I visited Afghanistan in September that this remains a war worth fighting. We went in with a specific military goal: to hunt down the terrorists who had attacked our nation and to remove from power the Taliban who sheltered those terrorists and dispossessed the Afghan people.

Is there a reason why this thread is focusing on Giffords, as opposed to all the other people who were shot? Is she of some superior importance in the scheme of things? Do we have any evidence that she was the target of this atrocity?

Just wondering.

ETA: Oh wait a sec: Is it "bad taste" to be discussing the role Giffords played in the occupation and murder of another nation?


josh
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Joined: Aug 5 2002

Uh, because she's an elected official.  And she was conducting a meet and greet at the time she was shot.


6079_Smith_W
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Joined: Jun 10 2010

Unionist wrote:

Is there a reason why this thread is focusing on Giffords, as opposed to all the other people who were shot? Is she of some superior importance in the scheme of things? Do we have any evidence that she was the target of this atrocity?

Just wondering.

ETA: Oh wait a sec: Is it "bad taste" to be discussing the role Giffords played in the occupation and murder of another nation?

In the first place, it isn't. A few of us have mentioned that others have been shot.

But so far as I know this was her event, and while I don't take issue with your sentiment (though I don't agree) your question seems to be a rehash of "How do we know he was a POC?".

And I do consider an attack on a public office holder to be of superior importance when the attack concerns the office. It is an attack the institution itself. It doesn't mean that she is a better or more important person.

The fact is she was targetted, and the judge who was also shot had received actual death threats.

Apparently a doctor who was in the operating room said she was responsive and following directions.


Unionist
Online
Joined: Dec 11 2005

josh wrote:

Uh, because she's an elected official.  And she was conducting a meet and greet at the time she was shot.

Inadequate response as to why this thread is about her, josh, with all due respect. John Roll is also an "elected official" - and he was killed:

Slain federal judge John Roll was at the center of Arizona's immigration debate

Quote:
In February 2009, Roll received hundreds of threats after he allowed a lawsuit filed by illegal immigrants against a rancher to go forward. "They cursed him out, threatened to kill his family, said they'd come and take care of him. They really wanted him dead," a law enforcement official told The Washington Post in May 2009.

I find the reports in the U.S. media, and much of the speculation in this thread, frankly offensive, ahistorical, and essentially useless.

 


NorthReport
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Joined: Jul 6 2008

Semi-automatic weapon used in attack.

 


josh
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Joined: Aug 5 2002

"Inadequate response as to why this thread is about her, josh, with all due respect."

 

Maybe you'd like to start another thread, then.


NorthReport
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Joined: Jul 6 2008

  2:30 PM ET Chilling

While there is no evidence at this point to suggest that the shooting was politically motivated, Matt Yglesias points out that an anti-Giffords event was held in June with the billing: "Get on Target for Victory in November. Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office. Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly."

Rep. Giffords was also on Sarah Palin's "target list."

As noted earlier, a gun was dropped at a Giffords event in 2009, and her office was vandalized in March.


Unionist
Online
Joined: Dec 11 2005

josh wrote:

"Inadequate response as to why this thread is about her, josh, with all due respect."

 

Maybe you'd like to start another thread, then.

No, josh, I'll be posting in this thread, and wondering why the wounding of Giffords is a big concern for left-wing people in Canada, given: 1) The fact that other innocent people were killed; 2) nothing but political speculation that she was the one targeted; 3) the fact (as I pointed out above) that she is a booster for sending murderous troops to Afghanistan.

So this is my thread, josh, as much as yours.

 


Boom Boom
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Joined: Dec 29 2004

I think it's human nature to express shock and dismay at this shooting, regardless of who the victims were. I was wondering if I would get an email from my ex-girlfriend in Phoenix about this, because we stayed in Tuscon many times, and we each know a few people there. No word yet.


6079_Smith_W
Online
Joined: Jun 10 2010

@ U

....and the report that she was shot at close range in the head,

...and the fact that she is an elected representative, and that it was her event

 

But who knows. maybe the shooter had a beef with a checkout clerk in the front row and his aim was off.

And if you are saying you think her politics makes her a legitimate target for murder, I disagree.


josh
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Joined: Aug 5 2002

I would think the shooting of any democratically elected official would be of concern to social democrats everywhere.

She was clearly the target, as it was her event and she was shot in the head from behind.

She's not Hitler.  I don't like many of her views either, but her shooting is a news story.  Should we not talk about news events?

 


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

6079_Smith_W wrote:

But who knows. maybe the shooter had a beef with a checkout clerk in the front row and his aim was off.

I don't know. Only some very prescient people in this thread, basing themselves on the very reliable U.S. media, seem to have figured this whole thing out without any shred of evidence. It's about Sara Palin and health care. Yeah, right.

Quote:
And if you are saying you think her politics makes her a legitimate target for murder, I disagree.

And if you are saying that child molestation is acceptable on odd dates of the month, I would have to disagree. But hey, even the manufacture of straw men could be seen as an economic stimulus in these hard times, eh?


Unionist
Online
Joined: Dec 11 2005

josh wrote:

I would think the shooting of any democratically elected official would be of concern to social democrats everywhere.

"Democratically elected official"! Omigod, U.S. democracy is now in danger! Whereas when they just murder African Americans and poor and workers and LGBTQ folks and children, and when they conduct judicial executions, that kind of "concern to social democrats everywhere" is of a different nature and degree?

I suppose the real tragedy of the McVeigh incident was that he attacked a federal building!?

Quote:
She was clearly the target, as it was her event and she was shot in the head from behind.

Really. What makes you think John Roll wasn't the target? Did you read what I reprinted above? And what's wrong with waiting for some evidence?

Quote:
She's not Hitler.  I don't like many of her views either, but her shooting is a news story.  Should we not talk about news events?

Sure, let's discuss what CNN considers as news, and do so from a "social democratic" viewpoint. How many people were killed in Afghanistan since yesterday, josh? Do you know?

 


Brian White
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Joined: Jan 26 2005

I think Unionist is just the other side of the coin.  Right wing USA and Canadians (Harper's advisor) have been using gun imagery about taking out their opponents for some time.

It was certain to happen.

Now Unionist wants us to be quiet when it happens.  Does silence mean that you condone attempted murder? 

Seems to me  you are hand in hand  even though you are poles apart from those right wing thugs.

 


josh
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Joined: Aug 5 2002

"What makes you think John Roll wasn't the target? Did you read what I reprinted above? And what's wrong with waiting for some evidence?"

 

From the accounts Giffords, whose event it was as indicated by a large sign with her name on it, was the first one shot. There are reports that Roll, who lived nearby, may have just been there as a bystander.

6079_Smith_W
Online
Joined: Jun 10 2010

Unionist wrote:

It's about Sara Palin and health care. Yeah, right.

Do I think Palin ordered a hit? Of course not, and I don't think anyone said that.

But it casts a spotlight on her rhetoric, and how casually people in her movement take talk of guns, "targetting" and even carrying weapons to events.

(edit)

And as I said already, yes, I think an attack on a public person (and I include members of political and social movements, not just elected and appointed officials)  DOES endanger society in a specific way. It doesn't mean the person is more important, but it is an act which threatens all of us, because who is going to want to take that person's place?


Bec.De.Corbin
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Joined: Mar 17 2010

 

Ok we get it Unionist; you don't like her support for some of the US international policies and you have no sympathy for her... fine. Thanks for that peek into your soul.

Oh and I care by the way.

As for this shooting it's too early to say but I'm thinking this is going to have a backlash on the tea party and its supporters. They've posted allot of irresponsible stuff on the internet and they can't take it back. People are mad; we'll see how this is going to play out. I'm interested in how the Republicans might use this to tamp the tea party down and lessen the tea parties control over their party. There are republicans at work whom I know for a fact don't like what the tea party is doing to their party (much to my amusement).  

 

One thing is for sure with all the back peddling the tea party and the repubs are going to have to be doing they are going to be in great physical shapeLaughingWink

 


Life, the unive...
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Joined: Mar 23 2007

For anyone who has ever attended a heated political meeting this hits home.  If you think there is anything from stopping this happening in Canada, you haven't been paying attention.

When I read comments like I see in this thread attacking someone who has been shot, debasing her very humanity, because you don't like her politics it is not hard to figure out why so many who might otherwise be brought into the progressive tent say thanks but no thanks.

It is quite possible to have empathy and heartache for all victims of violence, whether is part of geo-politics or domestic American politics or someone just trying to get their groceries on a sunny Arizona Saturday morning.


Unionist
Online
Joined: Dec 11 2005

I have empathy for all victims of violence. I find the superior attention paid to Giffords - and the rationalizations for that in this thread (that it's "news", or that it's some kind of supposed "attack on democracy")  to be offensive, disgusting, and incomprehensible on the part of progressive people.

 


Life, the unive...
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Joined: Mar 23 2007

Wheras I find your comments offensive, digusting and incomprehensible on the part of someone who claims to be progressive.  Since you feel free to point out your views I think I have the right to do the same.  Isn't openness grand.


Boom Boom
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Joined: Dec 29 2004

Right now it's the human face of this shooting that concerns me. I can't stand to discuss any related politics right now.


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