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Yet in at least one election in my riding the Liberal MP was a great deal right of the Conservative candidate. I think you have to be careful in making claims that there is any real, substantive difference between anti-choice, anti-equal marriage, anti-union pro-big business Liberals and anyone sitting on the Conservative bench other than their colour choice in clothing accessories.
I didn't vote for either them, but I can see where it might be a bit confusing as to what is really right or not.
I'm just pointing out that in 13 years the Liberals--with majorities--didn't try to turn the country into a military supremist police state.
They didn't send ground troops into Iraq,they never posted 50 billion dollar deficits,they didn't enact a war measures act during any summits and they weren't hell bent on cutting funds to organizations...Even if those organizations didn't fit their agenda.
BUT they lied about NAFTA,they lied about the GST,they cowered to the U.S. and let the Americans dictate Canadian domestic policy in 2003 and they swung away from the centre when Paul Martin took over.
The Liberals are not a party I'd ever support financially or morally but thanks to the current political atmosphere,I have to hold my nose and do what I can to get rid of the bastards who currently are holding power.
The Liberals will never be confusd as a party of the left but what's the alternative?
Are you seriously going to tell me that the Libs are as extreme as the Cons?...Are you going to tell me that the Libs are WORSE than the Cons?
Even old stock Progressive Conservatives have publicly trashed the Harpercons AND warned about how damaging it would be to give Harper his majority.
There is NO confusing the Harpercons..They are extremists and cut from the same mould as Totalitarian tyrants such as Dick Cheney and Maggie Thatcher.
A vote for Harper is the same as voting for Palin and supporting the Harpercons is like joining the Tea Party.
And there is NOTHING progressive about that
Alan, I think you are confusing the Liberal record and the Liberal rhetoric. Their rhetoric is well to the left of the HarperCons. Their record is not.
And BTW, the Liberals actually did introduce martial law during peace time. You seem to have forgotten.
@Malcolm.
No,I didn't forget about the War Measures Act from 1970....Not to justify it (not to misconstrued as trivializing the October Crisis) but in 1970,there was a kidnapping of a diplomat and an MNA...How do you think Harper,with his obsession with law & order and the military,would have handled the October Crisis?...Scares the hell out me just thinking about it.
Harper imposes martial law on citizens exercising their right to protest...
Can someone name a government more partisan than the Harpercons from the last 50 years?...Can anyone remember a time when we had a government whose caused more divisions than the current regime?
I understand people's disdain for the Liberals and,in fact,I haven't voted for them since the fall of Mulroney's Conservatives.
I just don't buy the assertion that the Liberals are more dangerous,demented and extreme than the Reform Party and I know things are in really bad shape in Ottawa when I find myself ready to support a 'lesser of 2 evils' party.
I don't think anyone has particularly argued that the Liberals are "more dangerous, demented and extreme than the Reform Party." Personally, I think the Liberals are more or less AS dangerous, demented and extreme - plus way more corrupt. In fact, the Chretien - Martin ministry was consistently to the right of Mulroney, Clark, Diefenbaker and possibly even Bennett. The HarperCons are merely the logical extension of the ideological trajectory on which we had already been travelling. Paul Martin's last minute "conversion" to more progressive policy options was a nothing more than a desperate attempt to save his sorry hide.
When one starts falling into the "lesser of two evils" trap, one perhaps needs to be reminded that the lesser of two evils is still evil.
Which still assumes the Liberals are "lesser," which is not a point I'm prepared to concede. I actually think there is a logic to the position that right wing and corrupt is worse than merely right wing.
The upshot of it all is that I cannot imagine a circumstance in which I would be prepared to waste my vote on a Liberal candidate in the hope of ever seeing any progressive policies.
And there are other Liberal-to-right-of-Conservative cases out there--just think of Tom Wappel vs Reg Stackhouse, or, for that matter, some may argue Iggy vs Patrick Boyer...
Alan, the last time I checked I vote locally and not in a Presidental election. So when you are casting your vote for a person in your own riding it can get confusing, which is all I am saying so your lecture is inappropriate. Also I am now old enough to take the long view about who is and was the most right wing in terms of actual policy outcomes.
I'm not trying to be a PLC cheerleader.
I just find it a little alarming when I read self proclaimed progressives entertain the thought of voting Conservative.
And by the way,I wasn't lecturing anyone..I was explaining my position.
As for the 'lesser of 2 evils' aspect,admittedly it's been generations of a 2 party system that has our political system in the sorry state it's in today.
Personally,if I had the option,I'd like an atheist socialist pure left party.
After saying all I have about the Libs,I'd like to mention something I don't understand.
A month or so back,someone left me a link to the NDP page where the NDP have in writing trheir platform and where they stand on issues and I was blown away with NDP policy.
And it blew me even further away that I had no idea about NDP policy.
You see Layton do commercials bringing up family doctors and affordable heating--2 very important issues...BUT you don't hear everything else.
Why doesn't the NDP come out of the political closet,share their ideals,values and exactly where they stand on issues,showcase themselves as a real and viable option and take the reigns of Canada's party of progress and social justice.
And fuck the 30 something % who'd never vote for them anyway.
To answer the opening post-- he is a conservative in a red tie.
So if you want something other than a conservative then vote for one.
I hardly see electing someone like that to the chamber is a plus and even the more centrist of the Liberals won't oppose this government. There are a number of characteristics in your opening post that would lead me never to vote for him.
Isn't the need to vote against a conservative and for something better more important than choosing the political affiliation of the Conservative you vote for-- or of choosing between conservatives?
There are many ridings where Conservatives cannot be pushed out-- you go and vote for who you want and know you did it.
Alan-- I totally agree with your last post. I hope someone is listening.
Do you think it would do something to stir the twenty-somethings from their comatose state?
...and is not worth supporting.
Maybe if the NDP wooed the University circuit...But really,I don't know what it will take to motivate the youth vote to show up at the polls.
As I said,the NDP has nothing to lose and everything to gain by exposing their platform for everyone to see and exploiting the fact that they are the REAL alternative.
The only people they'd offend is Harper's core supporters who'd just as soon vote for Mickey Mouse as long as he was draped in the Conservative brand.
I think the NDP platform scares the Cons because the lion's share of it would be more popular than the Con agenda...It's also the reason why the Libs always try to steal NDP ideas around election time.
Taking NDP proposals - like improving the GIS pension - is not beneath the Cons either, looks like. But surely the 20 somethings could ferret out NDP policy if they themselves were not, like the Conservatives, afraid of its requirement that they face real needs of real people. Not that they would ever come to old age and poverty themselves, of course.