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Cuba: A nation which would be PERFECT if it weren't for...

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Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

Tha Yanks are still waging economic warfare on Cubans. What would they say if Canada demanded fairer market prices and royalties for Canada's massive energy exports to the states and told them to shove their toilet paper and widgets, we can create jobs here and give the bird to NAFTA. They'd whine like stuck pigs while their economy goes for a big shit all over again.


Sven
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Joined: Jul 22 2005

Fidel wrote:

Sven, what would Puerto Rico look like if it couldn't sell anything to the mainland for a few decades? Newfoundland? PEI? Cubans want to trade freely with America and without interfering in US political affairs. Why is Washington so afraid of Cuba that it has to isolate a tiny Caribbean nation as if a colony of lepers? Cuba is just a mouse by comparison.  The whole thing is silly.

Hey, you won't get any arguments from me that the American trade embargo with Cuba makes any sense.

But, there are about 160 other countries on Earth with whom Cuba is free to trade (including Canada).  Opening American-Cuban trade, while is should be done, is not going to transform Cuba into a utopia on Earth.


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

But that's like saying the US is free to trade with 160 other countries besides Canada. Without Canada, it's a no go, Sven. And we're just one country. Apparently you have no idea what that would be like for the US economy. Canada is a natural geographic trade partner with the US like Cuba was during the years of mafia rule in Havana. Imagine the northern states having to find other oil and energy sources without Canada filling the bill. Youre getting a really, really good deal from our corrupt stooges in Bananada, Sven. Imagine if it was a real socialist country dealing shrewdly with the US and its corporations.


George Victor
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Joined: Oct 28 2007

Ever been to Cuba, Sven?  Or had the urge?


Stargazer
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Joined: Jun 9 2004

It's illegal for Americans to travel to Cuba.

 

How is that for "democracy"?


N.Beltov
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Joined: May 25 2003

How to Visit a Socialist Country by Richard Levins

Levins writes about Cuba. I created a thread with a similar title.


George Victor
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Joined: Oct 28 2007

Stargazer wrote:

It's illegal for Americans to travel to Cuba.

 

How is that for "democracy"?

You mean, America would be perfect except for....

Let us count the ways. 


NDPP
Online
Joined: Dec 27 2008

Cuba Challenges US Over Embargo

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=124432&sectionid=351020702

"Cuba has challenged  US to lift its embargo 'even for a year' after Secretary of State Hilary Clinton charged that Cuban leaders benefit from the restrictions.."


a lonely worker
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Joined: Jul 17 2005

Sven wrote:

But, there are about 160 other countries on Earth with whom Cuba is free to trade (including Canada).  Opening American-Cuban trade, while is should be done, is not going to transform Cuba into a utopia on Earth.

Typical imperial propaganda.

The truth is the US has enacted the Helms Burton Act which gives the the US the right to fine or imprison ANY corporation or individual who trades with Cuba irrespective of their country of origin.

This disgusting piece of imperialism has put a chill on other countries from openly trading with Cuba as it forces anyone who does business with Cuba to never do business with the US again. The US also goes after anyone who sells US patented items to Cuba.

 

Two examples:

 

1 - The CEO and his ENTIRE family of Canadian based Sherritt as well as many other non-Americans are placed on the US' "Trading with the Enemy" blacklists and have been banned for life from ever going to the US and also face attempts by the Empire to seize their personal assets:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2001/jun/03/cuba.theobserver

 

2 - When corporations sell products to Cuba they also face persecution. A particularly repugnant example is the fine Phillipps was forced to pay to the US government for the "sin" of selling medical equipment. Phillips was forced to cancel the sale and pledge to never do business there again:

http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/news-17594--5-5--.html

 

This is imperialism at its worst.

So spare us the "free to trade with others" bs. If Cuba was not forced to essentially buy everything on the black market and would have access to other markets in a FREE way, a lot of their economic problems would be resolved which is the last thing the Empire wants.

 

Its time to update your Miami Herald talking points.

 

ETA:

There are days I wish the imperialists in the US, Canada and the "north" would have to face just a portion of the shite we put the south through. Nothing major, maybe a Venezuelan army base filled with drugged up soldiers allowed to shoot anyone they deem an "undesirable" in Calgary, a Cuban government owned gold mine in the Florida Everglades that has no environmental oversight, $90 million a year to fund anti-capitalist movements in Canada (this is the equivalent of what the US spends every year against Cuba), having Wall Street bankers declared "terrorists" and cutting off all Chinese financing to the US government.

 

How long would the "free" north last if it as forced to enure what Cuba has? My guess is less than a week before the shooting would start.

 

 

 

 

 


Snert
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Joined: Nov 4 2008

So if Venezuela wanted to sell some food to Cuba, the U.S. could fine them?

Do you suppose Chavez would pay?  :D


George Victor
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Joined: Oct 28 2007

Snert wrote:

So if Venezuela wanted to sell some food to Cuba, the U.S. could fine them?

Do you suppose Chavez would pay?  :D

It has meant that the president of the Canadian mining firm, Sherrit International has been unable to visit the U.S. because of his companyy's work in Cuba (thanks to Helms-Burton).   I imagine that that still holds.  Cuba sends doctors to look after the impoverished of Venezuela and gets oil in return.  Again, that was the situation a year and two back. 


a lonely worker
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Joined: Jul 17 2005

George Victor wrote:

Snert wrote:

So if Venezuela wanted to sell some food to Cuba, the U.S. could fine them?

Do you suppose Chavez would pay?  :D

It has meant that the president of the Canadian mining firm, Sherrit International has been unable to visit the U.S. because of his companyy's work in Cuba (thanks to Helms-Burton).   I imagine that that still holds.  Cuba sends doctors to look after the impoverished of Venezuela and gets oil in return.  Again, that was the situation a year and two back. 

 

That is correct George and its still in place.

 

To answer more directly the Venezuela question:

 

The Helms-Burton Act targets any individual or corporation, irrespective of nationality, who does business with Cuba. As a result they are subject to fines or imprisonment if they also have any commercial dealings with the US.

To give three examples:

1 - If Snert wanted to sell apples to Cuba he could but would essentially be barred for life from ever selling them to the US or any US affiliated corporation. This forces corporations to quietly enforce the American blockade as very few corporations or individuals would ever want to face an American black list, fines or imprisonment (all of which has happened) in exchange for a very small market.

2 - Any company with any American commercial association is automatically prevented from doing any business with Cuba because they would be "trading with the enemy" For example: try buying travellers' insurance to Cuba through the "Real Canadian" President's Choice.  Because they have commercial agreements with US insurers' we cannot. So much for our "Canadian" SuperStore:

http://www.travelguard.ca/TI_Landing.asp

3 - Because Cuba is deemed a "sponsor of state terrorism", the US has forced all of their colonies to provide all financial transactions any Cuban citizen does in their country. This has gone as far as forcing banks and credit unions (e.g. credit union Mastercards do not work in Cuba because they couldn't afford to set up a separate credit network away from US control)  to ban Cuban nationals from opening ANY account in ANY of their branches. The US has gone as far as even forcing some banks in countries dependant on US "aid" to forcibly shut down any Cuban account as a condition of "investment":

http://havanajournal.com/politics/entry/bank-of-nova-scotia-ends-cuba-ba...

I challenge anyone to try have a functioning country under these conditions.

And before anyone starts the "why does Cuba need capitalism?" bs; trade is not capitalism. I challenge anyone to tell me of a country that functions with NO foreign trade (e.g. rice and bananas don't grow too well in Canada). Unfortunately corporations controls most world markets which forces Cuba to trade at extremely inflated prices on the black market, by barter or, in the biggest hypocrisy of all, the US which after bullying everyone else out of the way volunteers to dump the items Cuba can't grow (like wheat) for a big markup.

I'm not a religious person but there are days that I wish there would be a special place in hell for these repugnant imperialst pillagers.

 

 


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

It's a pleasure to be reading your posts again, LW.

 


a lonely worker
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Joined: Jul 17 2005

Thanks unionist.

 

Things have been really busy but unfortunately I can't resist when such blatant neo-lib propaganda gets spewed.

 

What the US and its northern colonies does to Cuba is a disgrace. However, it should come as no surprise to anyone involved in progressive movements that the Empire will do whatever it can to preserve it corporate capitalist ponzi scheme.

 

Before we get too smug, our media and elites are equally slanted.Simply put; its the Canadian people not any benevolence from Ottawa that keeps our relationship going between our peoples.

 

Aside from the economic stranglehold and its devastating effects, the US are even bigger hypocrits when it comes to their "war on terror":

 

1 - By declaring Cuba a "state sponsor of terror", they are treated the same as Al Qaeda with tens of millions being spent every year to destabilise Cuba and its Revolution. There is no accounting of how this money is spent or who receives it.

 

2 - The whole justification of our invasion and occupation of Afghanistan was that the taleban were "harbouring" Al Qaeda (the same charge levelled against Cuba). Yet when the largest airline terrorist attack occurred in our Hemisphere prior to 9/11 (the bombing of Cubana flight 455:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubana_Flight_455  

 

The ringleaders who were all on the CIA's payroll still walk free.

 

In fact on the fifth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks a judge in Texas released the mastermind Luis Posada Carilles from detention in Immigration after he returned to the US:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5338930.stm

 

And just this week, the US again delayed and is dragging every foot possible on pressing charges against this terrorist:

 

"Jose Pertierra, the lawyer that represents Venezuela in the request of extradition of terrorist Luis Posada Carriles, who took refuge in the United States (where he has remained over the last five years), denounced on Monday the new farce in this case.

In statements by telephone from Washington, the jurist told journalists at the Round Table program aired today by Cuban radio and television that the postponement of the meeting that had been scheduled was announced by judge Kathleen Cardone, at the request of the attorney general’s office, claiming that it failed to realize it had other commitments for May 20, the date established for the meeting.

She recalled that most of the documents related to the process remain sealed and are not accessible to the public; that the reasons for the postponement originally announced by the judge of El Paso, Texas, are not known; and that only the lawyers
and the attorney general will probably attend the aforementioned meeting.

The expert pointed out that Posada will actually be tried for being a liar and not for his crimes as a terrorist, like the act of sabotage carried out against a Cubana airliner that exploded in mid air in 1976 killing all 73 people on board or the assassination of Italian tourist Fabio di Celmo by way of a bomb at the Copacabana Hotel in 1997.

They “keep us dancing” with a case of perjury that they hasn’t even been tried yet, which evidences an attitude of protection towards the criminal.

http://www.cubaheadlines.com/2010/04/27/21354/lawyer_jose_pertierra_denn...

 

Imagine what the reaction would be if any other country had the nerve to do this to the US?

 

Our role is increasingly becoming equally imperialistic which is why ALL the countries in the Western Hemisphere with the exception of the US and Canada have formed a new regional block with the express purpose of replacing US dominance in the region:

 

"Latin American leaders gathered in a two-day summit in Mexico and have agreed to create a regional bloc, which excludes the U.S. and Canada, Mexican President Felipe Calderon said."

 

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/politics/latin-american-and-caribbea...

 

That said, the situation in Cuba and throughout Latin America is becomning very tense and grim. After the coup in Honduras and many dropping their guard on Obama there has been incredible tensions building with the rightist forces increasingly resorting to violence and doing whatever they can to destabilsie society.

 

In the past year the US has re-activated its Fourth Fleet (Carribean and South America. It last operated in 1948), vastly increased amounts for promotion of "democracy" (i.e. de-stabilising any leftist movement or government), moved in to seven military bases in Colombia and is openly working with corporate elites to re-take the economy.

 

My visits to the region this year have been unfortunately very unpleasant with progressive voices under constant attack and enduring the economic pressures the US perfected on Cuba.

 

I don't know how much longer the people can endure tactics very few would tolerate but everyday they do; is another testament to the solidarity of these battered people.

 

Will try to post more in future to prevent such mass info drops.




 

 

 

 

 

 

 


N.Beltov
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Joined: May 25 2003

Well, it was more of a "Cuba supporter" baiting thread - from the start - than anything else, but your contribution is appreciated anyway.


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

America has maintained an open arms policy for hijacking terrorists and those who murder innocent people on passenger planes. Cuba has lost as many citizens to US based terrorism as those who were murdered on 9/11.


NDPP
Online
Joined: Dec 27 2008

Former CIA Asset Luis Posada Goes to Trial

http://www.thenation.com/article/157510/former-cia-asset-luis-posada-goe...

"On January 10 one of the most dangerous terrorists in recent history will go on trial in a small courtroom in El Paso, Texas. This is not the venue the Obama administration has finally selected to prosecute the perpetrators of 9/11; it is where the reputed godfather of Cuban exile violence, Luis Posada Carriles may finally face a modicum of accountability for his many crimes.

In the annals of modern justice, the Posada trial stands and as one of the most bizarre and disreputable of legal proceedings.."


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

Terrorist Posada Carriles Charged Only with Lying

And  Fabio di Celmo was awaiting his Canadian citizenship papers at the time he was murdered by the CIA's Cuban gladio. Never an objection from Washington's obedient lap dogs in Ottawa though. 

USA, a country that would be perfect if it wasn't for its unwritten policy supporting state sponsored terrorism.

 

 


M. Spector
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Joined: Feb 19 2005

NoDifferencePartyPooper wrote:

Former CIA Asset Luis Posada Goes to Trial

http://www.thenation.com/article/157510/former-cia-asset-luis-posada-goes-trial

From that article in The Nation:

Quote:
For the Obama administration, the verdict will carry significant implications for US credibility in the fight against terrorism, as well as for the future of US-Cuban relations.

I'm wondering what possible verdict from this trial is going to enhance or rehabilitate U.S. "credibility" in the War on Terra™?


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

Sven wrote:

Fidel wrote:

Many of the progressive Cuba bashers will at least acknowledge that the U.S. has been a long-time hostile aggressor nation toward Cuba

I bet you won't find a single babbler who thinks that the US hasn't been "a long-time hostile aggressor nation toward Cuba".

Let's all take that as a given.

My simple question is: Is there any substantial action ever taken by Fidel Castro regarding which you have any significant criticism?

Fidel Castro Ruiz has openly admitted to his own failings over the years when reflecting on various periods. It's true.

What I think is lacking, though, in your country where the national motto is 'love it or leave it', is an overall national willingness for introspection and self reflection. Even among Canadians, it's said, the national past time is to criticize the government and to talk about our nation's flaws and so on. However, in the USA, criticizing flag and country and constitution and all that is generally frowned upon. And there are many intelligent Americans who get their backs up whenever foreigners attempt to do this. Michael Moore, for instance, is considered a pariah and target of much smear by politicos and right wing news media. In Cuba, Moore and other leftwing Americans are considered friends of Cuba. Even a few political conservatives in your country have lightened up on Cuba. But the ill will is still there in the halls of power.

Cuba is one of the few developing countries where the people aren't burning the US flag. I think it's time that the US leaders realized that the cold war is over. It's time to seize the opportunity for a less militarized world and work toward peaceful relations between countries. Ploughshares and prosperity not colder war!


M. Spector
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Joined: Feb 19 2005

Day 14 of Posada's "trial":

Quote:

I looked to my left. Posada was calmly snoring away. And why not? He appears to enjoy absolute impunity in the United States for the 73 murder charges pending against him in Caracas for blowing up a passenger airliner. He is also not worried about having to answer for the murder of Fabio Di Celmo, and he appears to have no remorse regarding the many accusations against him from those in Venezuela, El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras who say he tortured them.

Nor is he concerned that the Supreme Court in Panama declared unconstitutional the pardon previously given him by the former president Mireya Moscoso, and that there is now an outstanding order for his arrest in Panama, so that he may be returned to complete his prison sentence. His crime? Trying to blow up an auditorium full of students at the University of Panama, when the Cuban president, Fidel Castro, was scheduled to speak there in 2000.

No. In El Paso he is only charged with lying, and even at this trial his name and his lies are scarcely mentioned. The jurors have instead been subjected to a seemingly endless grilling of Gilberto Abascal by the defense counsel about the witness's failure to properly disclose cash income on his federal income tax returns. The witness's medical history has also been under scrutiny, but not Posada Carriles's crimes.

 

From the babble archives:

Anti-Castro militant [sic] seeks U.S. asylum

Posada to be released


Enduro Man
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Joined: Feb 5 2011

Cuba to me in many ways is a shining beam of light in the Caribbean.  It says in effect, there is another, better way.  I mean look around your own towns and cities.  They have become wastelands blighted with Walmarts, strip malls and cookie cutter suburban housing projects whose only message is painfully clear: you are not human.  You are a consumer and as such have no real rights. 

In Cuba there is no such blight.  The landscape is far more humane even if it isn't perfect. 

And I would submit that Cuba's actual human rights record is far better than America's.  America is a torture state that imprisons without trial.  Canada's human rights record also leaves much to be desired especially as our government leaves one of our own citizens to rot in Gitmo.  So for us Westerners to criticize Cuba would be absurd.  We would only be indicting ourselves.

 


Slumberjack
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Joined: Aug 8 2005

You're going to get along here just fine Enduro Man.  I think we can recognize that the Cuban people do have stark challenges to contend with, just like any other nation and people in the hemisphere that have been set upon by the serial exterminators of Amerikan capitalism.


George Victor
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Joined: Oct 28 2007

Yes. Welcome to babble, EM.  Where have you been? (That's not a request for a background check :) 


Enduro Man
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Joined: Feb 5 2011

George Victor wrote:

Yes. Welcome to babble, EM.  Where have you been? (That's not a request for a background check :) 

This basically explains it:

http://rabble.ca/babble/introductions/long-trip-back-american-forums


Enduro Man
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Joined: Feb 5 2011

Slumberjack wrote:

You're going to get along here just fine Enduro Man.  I think we can recognize that the Cuban people do have stark challenges to contend with, just like any other nation and people in the hemisphere that have been set upon by the serial exterminators of Amerikan capitalism.

It is my hope that Cuba will serve as a template for the entire Western Hemisphere once it becomes clear (as it will sooner or later) to even Americans that socialist revolution is ultimately the only way to avoid being utterly consumed by the machine.  When things get bad enough and the looting of our countries by a tiny elite can no longer be hidden- that these oligarchs and billionaires are not our friends then the hard truth will have to be faced:

Socialist revolution wil be a matter of survival.


Enduro Man
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Joined: Feb 5 2011

North Americans don't understand... that our country is not just Cuba; our country is also humanity.
Fidel Castro


NDPP
Online
Joined: Dec 27 2008

Havana Club: Cuba Won't Quit in Booze War with US

http://www.rt.com/news/us-cuba-havana-rum-545/

"Cuba accuses Washington of expropriating its national world famous Havana Club rum brand in the latest step in the 50-plus-years embargo against the island, the US court would not allow the Cuba export company to renew registration of the trade mark. The Cuba Foreign Ministry has warned the US government that it will bear sole responsibility for the 'expropriation' of the Havana Club brand from its 'legitimate' holder.."

 

First Bacardi and now Havana Club - the dirty yankees go to far!


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