babble is rabble.ca's discussion board but it's much more than that: it's an online community for folks who just won't shut up. It's a place to tell each other — and the world — what's up with our work and campaigns.
Not everything happening in the Arab world has to do with Israel.
Nonsense. Everything happening in the Arab world has to do with capitalist imperialism, and Israel is the standard-bearer for imperialism in the Middle East.
Do you think it's a coincidence that the autocratic governments in the Arab world, backed by U.S. and Canadian imperialism, are all on friendly terms with Israel?
Not everything happening in the Arab world has to do with Israel.
Nonsense. Everything happening in the Arab world has to do with capitalist imperialism, and Israel is the standard-bearer for imperialism in the Middle East.
Do you think it's a coincidence that the autocratic governments in the Arab world, backed by U.S. and Canadian imperialism, are all on friendly terms with Israel?
Everything is negotiable. Insanity is a legal term. Mental health issues are not. We must support and help those with mental health issues, many of which are a result of capitalism. Those who support zionism, racism, oppression and imperialism are insane. They are legally psychopaths.
True, but Israel is about to find the local neighbourhood considerably less friendly once their puppet Mubarek is gone.
NO ONE knows what will happen. No one can say how the people's revolution for justice and true democracy will end in Egypt. Maybe the people of Egypt are more forgiving and intelligent than those who are are fearful of change believe. Maybe the majority of Israelis, including Jews, Christians and Muslims will say "enough is enough" and start their own revolution. Who knows who will start the next revolution to end tyranny and work towards a true global democracy where all can live free of terror from all oppressive regimes around the world.
Everything is negotiable. Insanity is a legal term. Mental health issues are not. We must support and help those with mental health issues, many of which are a result of capitalism. Those who support zionism, racism, oppression and imperialism are insane. They are legally psychopaths.
Hi safetysue.
Using terms that apply to real people who are labeled and further traumatized by the psychiatric system in a casual, throw-away, insulting manner is not okay on babble and is in fact not negotiable.
It's a weird place. We can call them murdering genocidal fuckwads. But we can't call them insane, looney, etc.
Dear Fidel: Megalomaniacal psychopaths might complain that you are insulting them. Be careful. You are being moderated.
Insanity is a legal argument, in the court of laws. It has nothing to do with labelling in the real democratic world of real people. By real human beings. Humans with compassion and understanding. We do not label anyone who is one of our own. Even the homeless person shouting obscenities in the streets of downtown Toronto cannot be labelled. This human being is working out the evil that our system has instilled within.
My mother was labelled, tossed into the system and never was the same. After six kids in six years by the age of 24, after a war and migration to a land that did not accept 'strangers', I might be depressed and tired as well; and I'm sure some people would like to label me a litte #@%$ as well. But recognize that mental illness is not synonomous with insanity. Remember, Insanity is a legal term, conjured up by our ruling class to toss people they feared into the darkness without help or hope.
Do not let the lexicon of the ruling class overwhelm you or steer you into meaningless debate over a ruling class issue. Insanity is a label created by the ruling class and their legal system. All those "murdering genocidal fuckwads" can pick up a poor person who is homeless and destitute, driven to acts of desperation born of despair, toss them into the prison system, (called mental health system,) and then in a court of law. They can label them 'insane'. Most are victims of a cold and cruel system. When mental health breaks down, it is symptomatic of a system that is rotten to the core.
There is a distinction to be made, - but, we digress. This thread is about Gaza. This thread is about hope. Hope for all of humanity.
May the unemployed find employment. May the children find flowers in their garden of life. May the mothers and sisters be freed from drudgery and allowed the freedom to choose. The day is dawning where people will no longer be labelled. Where people will have names, not SINS and PINS. May the Egyptians find the strength and courage to give all of humanity strength. Until Gaza is free, none of us is free.
Thanks for that, safetysue. I certainly appreciate your passion and eloquence for Gaza, and I am grateful that you took the time to share what you did. There are many babblers who are all-too familiar with the injustices of the mental health system, and the models and structures of oppression enforced on those living with mental illness in Canada, including one of our moderators. A favourite ex-babbler of mine used to say, incidentally, that she hated the term "person living with a mental illness" first of all because it sounded like there were two of her. Clearly, we, as a society, have a long way to go before we agree upon a vocabulary and grammar to name and talk about one of the last taboos--mental illness.
I think the distinction you mention, between the "legal" and "real world" is often not grasped when used casually to refer to dictators, capitalists, neo-cons, the disenfranchised, etc. So when we ask that such labels not be casually tossed about, we simply ask that we think before we use language that could potentially marginalize others--particularly those most at risk. So, please, in solidarity, respect our simple request: don't speak in ways that can hurt our mad comrades.
"Israel has held a rapid response drill to guage the abilities of its armed forces as the Israeli ruling class is afraid of the outcome of the Egyptian resolution affecting Tel Aviv. Israeli police spokesman Michey Rosenfeld told Xinhua News agency on Thursday that police and border police units held an exercise on Thursday to deal with 'any possible scenario' in Israel.."
True, but Israel is about to find the local neighbourhood considerably less friendly once their puppet Mubarek is gone.
A response posted on counterpoint. Nicely done:
The Road to Victory
Tahrir Square, Jerusalem
By MARC H. ELLIS
I doubt many Egyptians in Tahrir Square think that they are striking a blow for Jewish freedom. They are. Just maybe the Egyptian revolution will be the blow that breaks the our camel's back. Or rather our new found empire's back, which isn't good for anyone, including us Jews.
You see for decades now we Jews have been stuck in the empire rut, thinking that only power will save us. This is true especially in Israel but many American Jews have the same view. Since we've been without power for so long it's understandable that we would feast on such a notion. Now we're clinging to power for dear life. On a life raft in a stormy sea.
Sometimes life's like that. You're in an emergency. All hands on deck. Cast your fear to the wind and hope for the best.
When the state of emergency becomes the normal state of affairs, however, there aren't enough life rafts in the world to save your skin.
Israel is a mini-empire joined at the hip with the American empire. The same hip that Mubarak is joined to. Jordan, too. The list is long.
The truth is that many Jews don't like being joined at the hip of any empire. You see, empires tend to be more alike than different. Egypt and Israel are more alike than Jews would like to admit. Maybe more than Egyptians would like to admit.
All of us like to think we're special. Each empire's boast its specialness. Shall we go through the roster of those "special" empire's that are now grouped under the same banner by historians from every land?
Credit where credit is due. At least Egyptians are taking on the powers that be. It seems to me that this is what the occupants of Tahrir Square are saying to the world: Enough of empire!
As Egypt struggles what are Jews saying to the world? Empire Jews are saying one thing to the protestors - "We're going to throw a lifeline to our friend Mubarak."
Jews of Conscience are saying something else those in Tahrir Square - "You are a lifeline to the world - and to us!"
You see if Israel can only survive if its neighbors are poor and with dictators galore, it also has to be armed to the teeth. Does anyone believe that Jews around the world can escape the same fate? We are armed to the teeth, we need dictators everywhere, whenever we move toward others we are accused of being traitors. Is it any wonder that many Jews don't feel free to express their aversion to the oppression outside and the oppression within?
What interesting company we keep now. So different than years past. Then we knew what every dictator was up to. We fought them all with our pen and movements for justice, even our prayers. Often we died at their hand. We constantly remember those who died and those who fought against our oppressors. Today Jews should remember those in Tahrir Square.
Resistance for the sake of justice isn't a one-off thing. Resisting one place is resisting everywhere. Across time and geography. Culture and religion.
So you gallant Egyptians! May the freedom you struggle for inspire us to seek our own.
NO ONE knows what will happen. No one can say how the people's revolution for justice and true democracy will end in Egypt. Maybe the people of Egypt are more forgiving and intelligent than those who are are fearful of change believe. Maybe the majority of Israelis, including Jews, Christians and Muslims will say "enough is enough" and start their own revolution. Who knows who will start the next revolution to end tyranny and work towards a true global democracy where all can live free of terror from all oppressive regimes around the world.
True, but Israel is about to find the local neighbourhood considerably less friendly once their puppet Mubarek is gone.
A response posted on counterpoint. Nicely done:
The Road to Victory
Tahrir Square, Jerusalem
By MARC H. ELLIS
I doubt many Egyptians in Tahrir Square think that they are striking a blow for Jewish freedom. They are. Just maybe the Egyptian revolution will be the blow that breaks the our camel's back. Or rather our new found empire's back, which isn't good for anyone, including us Jews.
You see for decades now we Jews have been stuck in the empire rut, thinking that only power will save us. This is true especially in Israel but many American Jews have the same view. Since we've been without power for so long it's understandable that we would feast on such a notion. Now we're clinging to power for dear life. On a life raft in a stormy sea.
Sometimes life's like that. You're in an emergency. All hands on deck. Cast your fear to the wind and hope for the best.
When the state of emergency becomes the normal state of affairs, however, there aren't enough life rafts in the world to save your skin.
Israel is a mini-empire joined at the hip with the American empire. The same hip that Mubarak is joined to. Jordan, too. The list is long.
The truth is that many Jews don't like being joined at the hip of any empire. You see, empires tend to be more alike than different. Egypt and Israel are more alike than Jews would like to admit. Maybe more than Egyptians would like to admit.
All of us like to think we're special. Each empire's boast its specialness. Shall we go through the roster of those "special" empire's that are now grouped under the same banner by historians from every land?
Credit where credit is due. At least Egyptians are taking on the powers that be. It seems to me that this is what the occupants of Tahrir Square are saying to the world: Enough of empire!
As Egypt struggles what are Jews saying to the world? Empire Jews are saying one thing to the protestors - "We're going to throw a lifeline to our friend Mubarak."
Jews of Conscience are saying something else those in Tahrir Square - "You are a lifeline to the world - and to us!"
You see if Israel can only survive if its neighbors are poor and with dictators galore, it also has to be armed to the teeth. Does anyone believe that Jews around the world can escape the same fate? We are armed to the teeth, we need dictators everywhere, whenever we move toward others we are accused of being traitors. Is it any wonder that many Jews don't feel free to express their aversion to the oppression outside and the oppression within?
What interesting company we keep now. So different than years past. Then we knew what every dictator was up to. We fought them all with our pen and movements for justice, even our prayers. Often we died at their hand. We constantly remember those who died and those who fought against our oppressors. Today Jews should remember those in Tahrir Square.
Resistance for the sake of justice isn't a one-off thing. Resisting one place is resisting everywhere. Across time and geography. Culture and religion.
So you gallant Egyptians! May the freedom you struggle for inspire us to seek our own.
NO ONE knows what will happen. No one can say how the people's revolution for justice and true democracy will end in Egypt. Maybe the people of Egypt are more forgiving and intelligent than those who are are fearful of change believe. Maybe the majority of Israelis, including Jews, Christians and Muslims will say "enough is enough" and start their own revolution. Who knows who will start the next revolution to end tyranny and work towards a true global democracy where all can live free of terror from all oppressive regimes around the world.
Inspiring words. I have read some of your other posts. Beautiful words. Sometimes words forge nations. Like Pierre Trudeau's.
We must be careful of those whose words we value. They have everlasting consequences to the human condition. Pierre Trudeau and Fidel Castro's words still ring with meaning for us. The tyrants such as Bush and Stalin's are justly forgotten.
PET's "Just watch me" still rings with meaning for me...or his response to Indigenous seeking rights: "don't talk to me of your historical might-have-beens"
"The education system was just one element of the remarkable society that Palestinian prisoners built inside Iraeli prisons. They held elections every six months for a prison wide council and steering committee. They divided themselves into committees chaired by the members of the steering committee responsible for education, communication with the Israeli guards, security and intra-prisoner affairs...Israeli guards sometimes revoked the privileges of the prisoners as a form of punishment. The harshest punishment of all was the confiscation of pens, paper and books. Books, according to Sami, were the prisoners souls.."
"Hundreds of Egyptians are marching to the country's border with the Gaza Strip to demand that it be opened.
They are currently in Al Arish, about 50 kilometres from Rafah. Press TV correspondent Roshan Muhammed Salihis is also in Al Arish, where he spoke to several of the Egyptian activists who told him they plan to hold a demonstration on the border on Sunday, with the aim of entering the besieged territory.
Another member of the Tahrir4Gaza campaign told Press TV 'If we are refused entry to Gaza, we are thinking about setting up a permanent camp at the border.
This is a test of whether this reality is the new Egypt, or whether the old Egypt remains."
"Now the Egyptians are saying no to the delegation and cement. This is just like the Mubarak days. The Egyptian Army was formally notified of this delegation, so any refusal will be by order of the Army. Hopefully they correct themselves; either way Rafah will be open, it is merely a matter of time.
Call Egyptian Embassies! Let them know that there is no Mubarak and thus the Egyptian blockade of Gaza is no more. The Palestinian government and people are waiting to receive the Tahrir4Gaza delegation and the symbolic bag of cement, today should mark the end of Mubarak's blockade."
New Egyptian siegemasters same as old Egyptian siegemasters. What 'revolution'?
"Getting out of Gaza is harder than ever, almost a month after former Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak handed over power to a special military council, travelers reported. From the start of the Egyptian revolution in January, Gaza residents expressed hope that a change in the Egyptian regime would lead to the easing of restrictions at the Rafah crossing, which connects the coastal enclave to the Arab world.
'You can't cross to Egypt, for security reasons, is the only explanation you hear,' one traveler told Ma'an, saying he heard a man in front of him with medical papers turned back on the same grounds. 'It's the same suffering and the same pretext we hear when we try to cross via Israel's Erez crossing in the north,' he said."
"A major Egyptian political party, the Muslim Brotherhood (MB) has demanded that the country's Supreme Council of the Armed Forces take action in breaking this siege of Gaza. The opposition group also called on all Arabs to take a decisive stand against the siege that has been 'suffocating the lives of the people in Gaza'..."
But are YOU going to be the one who convinces Netanyahu, Harper and Bernie Farber of that?
Nonsense. Everything happening in the Arab world has to do with capitalist imperialism, and Israel is the standard-bearer for imperialism in the Middle East.
Do you think it's a coincidence that the autocratic governments in the Arab world, backed by U.S. and Canadian imperialism, are all on friendly terms with Israel?
Falling Arab dictatorships and Israeli government panic:
I see Israel as an Imperial anachronism. Its existence is completely at odds with actual reality.
The people who advocate for this neo-colonialist project are in fact, insane. At least as far I can see.
Hi Enduro Man. Please don't use the word "insane" to characterize folks who you (and most of babble) vehemently disagree with.
Thanks.
Yeah, it's offensive to those of us who really are insane.
No, M.Spector it's offensive to people dealing with mental health issues. And it's not negotiable.
Everything is negotiable. Insanity is a legal term. Mental health issues are not. We must support and help those with mental health issues, many of which are a result of capitalism. Those who support zionism, racism, oppression and imperialism are insane. They are legally psychopaths.
Hi safetysue.
Using terms that apply to real people who are labeled and further traumatized by the psychiatric system in a casual, throw-away, insulting manner is not okay on babble and is in fact not negotiable.
It's a weird place. We can call them murdering genocidal fuckwads. But we can't call them insane, looney, etc.
And I tend to think of them as megalomaniacal psychopaths all the time.
Dear Fidel: Megalomaniacal psychopaths might complain that you are insulting them. Be careful. You are being moderated.
Insanity is a legal argument, in the court of laws. It has nothing to do with labelling in the real democratic world of real people. By real human beings. Humans with compassion and understanding. We do not label anyone who is one of our own. Even the homeless person shouting obscenities in the streets of downtown Toronto cannot be labelled. This human being is working out the evil that our system has instilled within.
My mother was labelled, tossed into the system and never was the same. After six kids in six years by the age of 24, after a war and migration to a land that did not accept 'strangers', I might be depressed and tired as well; and I'm sure some people would like to label me a litte #@%$ as well. But recognize that mental illness is not synonomous with insanity. Remember, Insanity is a legal term, conjured up by our ruling class to toss people they feared into the darkness without help or hope.
Do not let the lexicon of the ruling class overwhelm you or steer you into meaningless debate over a ruling class issue. Insanity is a label created by the ruling class and their legal system. All those "murdering genocidal fuckwads" can pick up a poor person who is homeless and destitute, driven to acts of desperation born of despair, toss them into the prison system, (called mental health system,) and then in a court of law. They can label them 'insane'. Most are victims of a cold and cruel system. When mental health breaks down, it is symptomatic of a system that is rotten to the core.
There is a distinction to be made, - but, we digress. This thread is about Gaza. This thread is about hope. Hope for all of humanity.
May the unemployed find employment. May the children find flowers in their garden of life. May the mothers and sisters be freed from drudgery and allowed the freedom to choose. The day is dawning where people will no longer be labelled. Where people will have names, not SINS and PINS. May the Egyptians find the strength and courage to give all of humanity strength. Until Gaza is free, none of us is free.
Moderate this.
Thanks for that, safetysue. I certainly appreciate your passion and eloquence for Gaza, and I am grateful that you took the time to share what you did. There are many babblers who are all-too familiar with the injustices of the mental health system, and the models and structures of oppression enforced on those living with mental illness in Canada, including one of our moderators. A favourite ex-babbler of mine used to say, incidentally, that she hated the term "person living with a mental illness" first of all because it sounded like there were two of her. Clearly, we, as a society, have a long way to go before we agree upon a vocabulary and grammar to name and talk about one of the last taboos--mental illness.
I think the distinction you mention, between the "legal" and "real world" is often not grasped when used casually to refer to dictators, capitalists, neo-cons, the disenfranchised, etc. So when we ask that such labels not be casually tossed about, we simply ask that we think before we use language that could potentially marginalize others--particularly those most at risk. So, please, in solidarity, respect our simple request: don't speak in ways that can hurt our mad comrades.
Israel Bombs Gaza Medical Warehouse
http://redactednews.blogspot.com/2011/02/ken-okeefe-gordon-duff-new-atta...
Ken O'Keefe on yet another Israeli Gaza attack in full view of the international community and with full impunity
Israel Hold Drill Amid Egypt Protests
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/164602.html
"Israel has held a rapid response drill to guage the abilities of its armed forces as the Israeli ruling class is afraid of the outcome of the Egyptian resolution affecting Tel Aviv. Israeli police spokesman Michey Rosenfeld told Xinhua News agency on Thursday that police and border police units held an exercise on Thursday to deal with 'any possible scenario' in Israel.."
The Circles in the Sky Over Gaza
http://target.ps/en/2011/02/the-circles-in-the-sky-over-gaza/
"People keep talking of a new war...Everyone - groundless news reports or loud rumors - is saying that they can hear the war drums, can't you?"
Pierre Trudeau?
Pierre Fucking Trudeau?
Ah, yes, Canada's own Che Guevara. I forgot.
PET's "Just watch me" still rings with meaning for me...or his response to Indigenous seeking rights: "don't talk to me of your historical might-have-beens"
(Comment about Ethel Blondin edited by myself after the next poster pointed out historical error)
before her time.
In that case, the question is...why did she ever RUN as a Liberal? It's not like they got better on indigenous issues AFTER Trudeau.
WikiLeaks: Suleiman Promised To Stop Gaza Elections
http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=207821
"Egyptian VP said he will 'take care of' Gaza, stop Hamas from gaining control, in meeting with Israeli officials.."
Editorial: Egypt, Please Open the Rafah Crossing
http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=359203
"We, your blockaded brothers, congratulate Egypt. But we have one request: Open the Rafah Crossing..."
Wael Ahmed Kamal Abdul Magd - Ambassador Egypt:
email: egyptemb@sympatico.ca
(please support and pass on..)
Gaza Scholars Ask Egypt to End Siege
http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=359811
"With a new leadership barely in place, the association of scholars urged a quick reconsideration of the crossing policy.."
From An Israeli Prison to Tahrir Square
http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/02/14/from_israel_to_ta...
"The education system was just one element of the remarkable society that Palestinian prisoners built inside Iraeli prisons. They held elections every six months for a prison wide council and steering committee. They divided themselves into committees chaired by the members of the steering committee responsible for education, communication with the Israeli guards, security and intra-prisoner affairs...Israeli guards sometimes revoked the privileges of the prisoners as a form of punishment. The harshest punishment of all was the confiscation of pens, paper and books. Books, according to Sami, were the prisoners souls.."
Egyptians Marching to Gaza Border
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/168407.html
"Hundreds of Egyptians are marching to the country's border with the Gaza Strip to demand that it be opened.
They are currently in Al Arish, about 50 kilometres from Rafah. Press TV correspondent Roshan Muhammed Salihis is also in Al Arish, where he spoke to several of the Egyptian activists who told him they plan to hold a demonstration on the border on Sunday, with the aim of entering the besieged territory.
Another member of the Tahrir4Gaza campaign told Press TV 'If we are refused entry to Gaza, we are thinking about setting up a permanent camp at the border.
This is a test of whether this reality is the new Egypt, or whether the old Egypt remains."
GO Egypt GO!
Tahrir4gaza Update 6 March: Delegation and Cement Blocked by Egyptian Authorities
http://tahrir4gaza.net/delegation-and-cement-blocked-by-egyptian-authori...
"Now the Egyptians are saying no to the delegation and cement. This is just like the Mubarak days. The Egyptian Army was formally notified of this delegation, so any refusal will be by order of the Army. Hopefully they correct themselves; either way Rafah will be open, it is merely a matter of time.
Call Egyptian Embassies! Let them know that there is no Mubarak and thus the Egyptian blockade of Gaza is no more. The Palestinian government and people are waiting to receive the Tahrir4Gaza delegation and the symbolic bag of cement, today should mark the end of Mubarak's blockade."
New Egyptian siegemasters same as old Egyptian siegemasters. What 'revolution'?
Post Mubarak, Egypt-Gazan Crossing Rules Tighten
http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=366079
"Getting out of Gaza is harder than ever, almost a month after former Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak handed over power to a special military council, travelers reported. From the start of the Egyptian revolution in January, Gaza residents expressed hope that a change in the Egyptian regime would lead to the easing of restrictions at the Rafah crossing, which connects the coastal enclave to the Arab world.
'You can't cross to Egypt, for security reasons, is the only explanation you hear,' one traveler told Ma'an, saying he heard a man in front of him with medical papers turned back on the same grounds. 'It's the same suffering and the same pretext we hear when we try to cross via Israel's Erez crossing in the north,' he said."
Egypt's MB Urges Army To End Gaza Siege
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/171551.html
"A major Egyptian political party, the Muslim Brotherhood (MB) has demanded that the country's Supreme Council of the Armed Forces take action in breaking this siege of Gaza. The opposition group also called on all Arabs to take a decisive stand against the siege that has been 'suffocating the lives of the people in Gaza'..."
Egypt To Open Rafah Border Crossing
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/177238.html
"Egypt is preparing to permanently open the Rafah border crossing in a move that would allow people and goods to enter and exit the Gaza Strip.."
Think that this will change the route of the Flotillas?