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I actually quite disliked the brocoflower - kind of mushy and unappealing. Yet I love both broccoli and cauliflower. My kids love broccoli, they gag on cauliflower.
Bagkitty, I have never heard anyone slag volunteers for not providing particular types of refreshments. I think I would invite them politely to eat elsewhere :)
Someone in the previous thread made a crack about vegetarians eating tofu imported from China, and the comment has been bugging me ever since. I suppose the comment reflects the view that vegetarians are exotically weird or something. If you think about it, however, growing and eating beans, grains and vegetables is far simpler than raising livestock for slaughter. I can grow a lot of food in my backyard, for example, but I'd have trouble raising a pig or steer back there.
The winter food thread is full of tales of chickpeas and lentils, crops common on the prairies (as is wheat, another staple of the vegetarian diet) and a couple of the foundations of any veg. pantry. Saskatchewan is the world's second-largest lentil producer, moreover, behind Turkey. Most people on the planet are either vegetarians or close to it ( admittedly not by choice but by necessity), which suggests that meat is the exotic, rare element in any diet. A vegetarian diet is thus hardly strange or exotic; it's rather mundane.
Non-veg friend tend to worry when we are going to eat together. "Well I just don't know what to feed you. I don't know how to cook tofu!" I try to tell them to just cook whatever meal they were planning, and I will eat all the parts that don't have meat. It's easy for them and I don't have to feel like I am putting everyone out. I have made whole meals out of rice and salsa, I can usually find something to eat.
That's their problem, not ours. Guess what? Most vegamites are like me and don't give a flying fork what meat-eaters consume; just leave us alone, already.
As far as having employees conform to a certain workplace culture, this isn't such an unusual concept. Mme. Qa'bong, for example, had to pass some sort of Catholicism requirements before she could work at a Catholic college here. Is that not religious discrimination?
"I would have said the same comment to a born again."
As long as your religions bigotry extends to Christians, and not just Jews or Muslims, I'm sure your comments will be welcome on Rabble,
To the very best of my knowledge, meat-eating is not an identifiable group, nor is it an essential part of any religion.
Employers make all sorts of demands on their employees. Some ask their employees not to smoke in the workplace, or just ouside the doors (even before the laws were made). Some ask their employees not to play music as it might disturb others. Some ask their employees not to wear perfumes. Some ask their employees to dress professionally and not have facial hair. So, I can't think of a single reason why it is not acceptable to ask employees to not eat meat in the workplace, particularly a company trying to establish itself as being vegan.
The good news is that all the news they received on this has no doubt been a boon to them. People enraged about their inability to go one meal a day without eating meat aren't likely to buy vegan products anyway, and I sincerely doubt anyone interested in their products is going to think less of them for such a workplace policy.
So just out of curiousity, would you support a similar workplace ban on eating bread and vegetables, with the only exceptions being for bona fide religious requirements (eg: a Jain employee)?
I guess I'm curious because outside of a small handful of religions, being vegetarian isn't really any more sacred than being an omnivore. And as you note, employers require a lot of things... can eating meat be one of them, or is not eating meat a "special" case?
So just out of curiousity, would you support a similar workplace ban on eating bread and vegetables
On what grounds?
How about just the personal beliefs of the owners? Those are pretty much the grounds in the original story.
Of course not.
“Individualism, narrowly egotistic, is incapable of inspiring anybody. There is nothing great or gripping in it. Individuality can attain its supreme development only in the highest common social effort.”
Not really.
In some workplaces it is necessary to buy into the ethos of the place to contribute to the culture there. If a hospital decreed that it was irrelevant if its employees practiced witchcraft as a healing method, one might find it strange. We expect doctors and nurses to adhere to certain attitudes regarding their ways of doing things. As I mentioned above, some educational institutions require a certain level of religiosity before they will consider someone for employment. The two are connected.
You are suggesting that the conditions are similar to that of the manufacturers of Widget X demanding that their employees attend a specific church. In this case the beliefs of the owners or the employees have nothing to do with the widget in question.
I used to find it strange to see health care professionals outside, smoking. What's the message there?
Similarly, I might expect some health care professionals to take echinacea for a cold. I really can't see that a hospital would have any right to ban either of these, on the grounds that they don't contribute to a culture of health or modern medicine.
Somehow this story -- and I'm guessing it's the vegetarians versus animal murderers angle -- seemed to prompt babblers to side with management, and management's right to tell employees what they can eat. Doesn't that seem at all strange? It's even in Labour and Consumption!
They can leave the premises and eat whatever they want, just as hospital employees can step outside to smoke. Nobody is preventing them from eating meat.
Damn that second hand smoked meat!
I hear you're actually more likely to get cancer from the second-hand meat. When are they going to ban it from all workplaces and stop this epidemic, already? No meat within fifteen feet of the entrances of public buildings! No meat in cars with children riding inside! No more meat advertising aimed at children!
Like I said, there is something about vegetarianism that makes meat-eaters go crazy (or maybe it is because of the meat). Jake, you have not posted in over a month, have made but five posts in the past four months, and this is what you write about?
You've known a lot of meat-eaters who just go berserk at the mere idea of someone being vegetarian? I'm a carnivore, but have known many vegetarians over the years, including several roommates and a few close friends, and have never had a problem with any of them. Neither have any of the other meat-eaters in those social cricles.
But yes, from what I know of the case which prompted this thread, I don't think I would approve of this company's workplace regulations. Does this qualify as "going crazy over vegetarianism"?
If I had but world enough, and time...
Actually, it's the first hand meat that causes cancer. I agree with your request for a ban.
http://www.cancerproject.org/survival/cancer_facts/meat.php
I have known some, both when I was veggie and even now that I'm not. Heck even suggesting that eating less meat or eating veggie for a few days a week is enough to get some people going on a rant and freaking. Just say the word vegetarian or this is a no meat dish and boom...tension and stupid crap. One of my relatives was the worst when I was veggie. I really could care less if he ate steak or ate meat in front of me. I didn't even talk about it but he sure did. It was all snide comments and pretty much any veggie joke you could come up with. I seriously could never figure out why he found it such a threat but he did for whatever reason. He was a bonifide jerk about it. I was mean though and got him back at one family dinner. He had declared on many occasion that he would never eat veggie and never touch anything 'tofu' or fake meat. So my contribution was spaghetti with soy ground beef substitute. He loved and had three helpings. Never knew the difference. An hour later over coffee and chat I announced what was in the sauce. Boy was he mad. Then a few minutes later he said he was starting to feel sick. Said he felt like throwing up. For several years after that he would tell people I deliberatly tried to poison him and made him sick for days with that vegetarian crap.
Yeah he's an extreme example but I have known people over the years who hold varying degrees of this type of thinking and behavior.
Example: yesterday at work I was asked by a new coworker if I would like him to pick me up a burger at lunch. I said no thanks. Another co-worker mentioned that I was a vegetarian....rolling of the eyes all around. New co-worker..."Oh! One of THOSE. You know what I alway tell vegetarians? Hahahahhaha....my food SHITS ON your food!! Hahahahahah......."
Gawd save me.
:D That's one I haven't heard.
Then there was a roomie I had. I have a lot of cookbooks and a lot of vegetarion cookbooks. Had them all out on a shelf. He was looking at them one day. "Why do you have all the vegetarian cookbooks I've seen you eat meat? You're not a vegetarian."
"I like vegetables."
"But I don't understand there's no meat."
"I like vegetables. They have lots of great recipes."
"I don't get it. You're weird."
Meh. I've known asshole omnivores like those mentioned above, I've known asshole evangelical vegetarians. The employers who dictate what their employees eat at work strike me as controlling assholes.
I noticed someone upthread mentioned employers asking employees not to wear perfume - I actually ask that people limit the scent at our office. Unlike whether they eat meat or veg meals, having someone wear a lot of perfume around me causes an allergic reaction - severe headache, nasal congestion, runny eyes. I'm not morally or ethically opposed to perfumes, but someone else's use can have an effect on my health and productivity. Likewise, if there were a severe shellfish or nut allergy in the office, I'd ask people to not bring nuts or shellfish to work - there's a good reason. Whether you're eating spaghettie Bolognese or primavera makes not one iota of difference to anyone capable of minding their own business.
Thread drift: I watched "Supersize Me" on CBC again this week, and there's a guy (Don Gorske) in the film who had eaten as of the movie's release date in 2004 something like 20,000 Big Macs. Did a Wiki on him, and he's eaten 24,700 Big Macs as of 12/18/2010 with no ill effects. He keeps an 'emergency stash' of Big Macs in his freezer!
ETA: Must have a freakish appetite - how else to explain eating at one point nine Big Macs in one day?
A Mac has almost 600 calories, 34 grams of fat (11 of them saturated!), 85 mg of cholesterol, and 1070 mg of sodium per "sandwich". Perhaps Mr Gorske shows no ill effects (so far - he will), but I don't think he's representative of the average person. I also wonder if he has an eating disorder.
What if I worked for the Suzuki foundation and I drove a Hummer to work?
Would anyone be having a cry if the Suzuki foundation told its employees not to drive such a beast to work?
Probably not. What is the difference other than meat-eaters insecuirty that vegans look down on them?
I expect a lot of people would overlook it because they don't like Hummers. At least I would hope that's why. If they believe that employers also have the right to tell workers how they can and cannot commute then I'm again a bit surprised.
Flip it, though: if you work for GM, is it OK if GM forbids the use of public transit? Or would that be an example of an employer stomping on a worker's right to decide that for themself?
Actually some Auto plants in the US did ban foreign cars from parking in the employee parking lot
Or walking to work, or riding a bike? Gracious, the slippery slope is producing its own lubrication!
I became a vegetarian for health reasons originally. Since then my views have been changing. I have met a number of vegan/vegetarians and have listened to many many reasons why people choose not to eat meat.
I have met wonderful hardcore vegans who are meat free because they believe that it is wrong for humans to harm any animals, for any reason. It is possible to live a long healthy life without consuming animal products, and my friends feel that it is cruel for humans to kill fellow animals simply because (a) we can, and (b) we like the taste.
I think it goes further than having a moral issue with consuming animal products. To my friends, killing is killing, whether we are talking cows or pigs or people. Just because we assume we are superior to every other species on the planet, does it mean we have the right to decide what lives and what dies? To people who insist that they need to eat meat for health, would you be willing to butcher your horse? Your dog? Rats? Parakeets? If we run out of grazing land, can we breed cats for consumption? Why not? Cats are NOT more human, less animal, smarter, more compassionate, less feeling, or more trainable than pigs. Yet we would be appalled at lean smoked kitty-strips showing up on the same menu we happily order bacon from.
It's odd that people can decry the cruelty of cock-fighting while insisting that eating dead chicken is okay, (but only organic free range dead chicken). Death is still death in the end, whether it’s in the ring or in the slaughterhouse or on the stump out behind the barn.
And it’s from this viewpoint that my friends operate. So no, I would never hurt and insult them by insisting that I needed to eat meat in their presence. This is not them attempting to control or belittle others, this is a very deeply held belief in the importance of all life, as opposed to the belief that only our own life is important.
And I can’t get offended by that.