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Syndicate
How many vegans does it take to change a lightbulb?
Two, one to change it and one to check for animal ingredients.
Why did the tofu cross the road? To prove he wasn't chicken.
(please don't ban me...
)
I find your mockery troublesome Boom Boom. Perhaps, some tolerance?
Mocking, even when it's so easy, is unworthy of you my friend.
Sorry, but perhaps the lack of blood and flesh in my diet has slowed my brain activity, but where's the pun in all that?
By the way, I've posted that joke here before:
Q: How many vegetarians does it take...
A: One to screw in the lightbulb, and one to check the label for ingredients.
Having to do this on purt'near every trip to the grocery store isn't as funny as it might seem. Walk a mile in my man-made fibre shoes, boomer.
Okay, no more tasteless vegan* jokes from the Boomster.
*vegan: no taste
I still don't get it. There's no pun there.
Okay, just forget I ever said it. My humour totally escapes me, sometimes.
Now, back to our regularly schedule business of the Vegan Challenge.
I checked out both stores here... all the fresh stuff (veggies and fruits) are spoiled, and a fresh supply is a week away. One of the grocers is to take his skidoo to Natashquan (40 km) then get in his truck to drive to Havre St Pierre (another 50 km I think) and buy fresh groceries from the grocery chain there (it will have been on display for I don't know how long). Then make the return trip. The skidoo trails are hard and bumpy, so all that produce will be bruised by the time it gets here - and the price of all that travelling will be added to the price he paid the grocer in Havre St. Pierre.
ETA: Our gardening season is from mid-June to mid-September, although fragile stuff like lettuce and tomatoes has to be harvested by August. Even then, with usually cold summers, it's difficult to grow much here. Potatoes and carrots do well, though.
Frozen vegetables are as nutritious as fresh. And much cheaper and easier to store.
Yes, we have frozen veggies available to us, but they do not include lettuce, tomatoes, onions, or cabbage.
I wonder if it has occurred to those dietary tyrranosaurs (with their great big fangs) that by eating a BLT they are 2/3 vegan right there.
Geez, they might as well be these guys.
I've been making BLTs without bacon for years - just add a pinch of salt and pepper to the tomato slices and you don't miss the bacon at all.
Hi babble! ((waves)). I can't resist a good discussion on food issues.
The vegan challenge combines this statement:
... with this one:
... which I'm afraid illustrates the problems inherent in not taking a broader view of food politics and environmental impact. A pineapple would likely be grown in an environmentally destructive fashion; at the very least, it's worth noting that pineapple plantations have been the cause of a great deal of rainforest destruction and displacement of indigenous people ... and then there are pesticide/fertilizer issues, and poor labour practices. Caveat emptor on any tropical fruit, for those reasons. As well as transportation. A pineapple needs to travel thousands of kilometres to reach Canada. Note, too, that the recommended purchase is an already-cored pineapple (requires refrigeration) in a container (almost certainly disposable plastic). The environmental problems pile up.
Food production, including animal-derived food, is certainly an environmental concern. And North Americans consume a highly unsustainable amount of animal products, no question.
But food production is a complex issue with many different facets, as some excellent posts on the previous thread pointed out. This vegan challenge strikes me as the sort of well-meaning initiative like Earth Hour or the plastic bag tax, which ideally encourages environmental behaviour change, but in the absence of education and critical analysis can result in a complacent feeling of "okay, yay, now I've done my bit!"
Item: I loooooove seeing people in grocery stores religiously toting in their canvas bags, only to fill them with processed food that is triply-packaged in plastic, cardboard and plastic wrap. Quite the discontinuity, no? Sort of like the one above.
As an alternative/as well as doing the vegan challenge, people might consider some or all of the following:
- Now that we're in a federal election, asking your candidates if elected what actions they will take to make food production and distribution more sustainable. Raise it as a political issue and it becomes a political issue.
- Lobbying federal and provincial agriculture ministries to support local organic food production, including providing transition funding (the minimum three years of transition prior to organic certification can be a real financial deterrent for farmers).
- Lobbying grocery chains to label foods based on distance travelled - "Product of USA" could be 100 kms or 3000 kms.
- Asking your own grocery stores to source local and organic food. I know someone who did that for eggs, the store got them in, they were always sold out!
- Lobbying food manufacturers and federal regulators to mandate a carbon footprint calculation on processed food labels.
- Lobbying governments to cease and desist from promoting food-derived biofuels. That's just obscene on so many levels.
- Joining a CSA or other local farming support group.
- Learning more about food politics. Someone mentioned Michael Pollan, his books are a good place to start.
- Growing our own food if we can. Eating as locally as we can. Eating as seasonally as we can.
- If you're eating out, supporting restaurants that source local and sustainably produced food. Chefs that have been doing so are trailblazers and generate fabulous publicity.
- If you're buying imported food, including produce, trying to find out if it's sustainably produced using fair labour practices. If it's hard to find out, contact the grocer, importer, and production company, and say so.
- Avoiding processed food as much as you can, no matter what it's made of (organic chocolate chip cookies have almost the same enviro ding as regular ones).
- Eschewing bottled water and other drinks that require bottling/packaging/transportation.
- Educating ourselves and others about other food issues ranging from farming practices to seafood. Supporting initiatives that promote production and labelling of sustainable food.
- Supporting NGOs that are working on these issues.
- And yeah, being moderate in our meat consumption and selective about its source. Sustainably produced meat is more expensive (and harder to find) but budgeting for less meat makes it more affordable.
And so on. There's lots more. Any or all of these can help, but the political work probably gives you more bang for your buck than making an individual eating choice for a week. Spend a week doing some of the above lobbying work and then I think some pats on the back are in order!
Great post, Tehanu, as usual. Thanks!
Fantastic post.
I want to add two things directly-
1. Join the NFU (National Farmers Union) as an Associate member - that's the non-farmer category. You will get their magazine, support their work and hear from voices on the frontlines of agricultural sustainabilty in Canada - and you will get to find out about their work with Via Campesina on international food issues
2. Since there is an election on right now donate to the campaigns of Nettie Weibe (former national President of the NFU) and Grant Robertson (former Ontario President of the NFU) -or both if you can. Having these two amazing people in the House taking on big-agri from a down to earth farmer perspective would do a great deal to forward the cause of sustainable food production.
ETA
I think I remember OO mentioning that Glen Tait a former NFU National Board member - who served with Grant Robertson I think too - was running against Gerry Ritz.
Geez, I still don't see what the big deal is, nor the need to jump in with every other food issue that is also serious (anyone mentioned the corn industry yet?)
It's not like they are asking people to reject animal products altogether. It is just a good personal exercise that some people might find instructive.
Having on through a similar exercise regarding gluten (even though I love the stuff and eat it by the bucket or can), I can only think it is a good educational opportunity, not the final word on diet, and certainly not the end of the world.
I don't support most vegan arguments, they often neglect to mention that there are many farms that raise animals in a humane way. It's up to the consumer to educate themselves and figure out whether they support those practices or not. Cutting out meat entirely doesn't necessarily solve anything, in fact it sort of avoids dealing with the issue of conventional meat production and slaughter altogether.Check out Nicolette Hahn Niman's book, "Righteous Porkchop: Finding A Life And Good Food Beyond Factory Farms". She argues that eating humanely-raised, sustainable meat is not necessarily less "eco-friendly" than going vegetarian or vegan. She herself is a vegetarian but she also raises animals for meat.
I am also a farmer, Life, and agree with everything you've said so far. Animals are absolutely essential to creating and maintaining a sustainable closed-system in farming.
And besides, we all know about the controversy surrounding soy production, which I could also get into but others have already done so, very articulately, I might add. My point is that there is no easy, blanket solution to a problem as deep-seated as our current conventional system of meat production and slaughter. My advice to rabble readers is to go out and find out for themselves how their meat is produced and, for that matter, how all their food is produced.
just sayin'.
Hi vvjsamur, welcome to babble, and thanks for your thoughtful post! It would be great if we had a farmer respond to Anita's original blog about this. While I support the exercise, I'm inclined to agree with the criticism we've seen here--without an open discussion about the implications of veganism, food supply and farming, it looks like a lost opportunity for real engagement with the issues.
Discussing veganism as a way to help the planet seems to me to ignore the fact that if you can cut 50% of the meat you eat out of your diet then that's 50% better than if you didn't, and if you can cut 90% of the meat you eat out of your diet then that's 90% better and so on.
Why start with a full, 100% commitment that even many vegetarians have difficulty sticking with? Why set people up for failure, just to maintain some kind of ideological purity? If your real goal is to help the planet, wouldn't it make more sense to urge people to set realistic goals for themselves instead of directing them to a rigid ideology wherein if you eat something sweetened with honey you've already failed?
Not to mention the fact that veganism isn't natural? ;)
Aren't we all seeking ideological purity?
Anyway, that's not the reason I'm participating in the challenge. I think it's a good way to ensure you think about every time you consume food. I'm currently an omnivore who tries to eat local, sustainable (not necessarily organic) food. But I don't evaluate habits which have become familiar. That's where I think the value of this comes in--although I'm willing to be convinced by suggestions like Tehanu's.
That made me laugh. Most vegetarians I know have no problem not eating meat...that's what makes them vegetarians :)
In some measure it's still a good thought exercise.
But I can't help recalling a friend, who, years ago, experimented with vegetarianism. For the planet and all that.
Except she was pratically tearful when she told me how she'd had some bacon on a pizza a few nights previous! OMFG! And now she was wondering whether or not vegetarianism was really for her.
So, she went back to her old ways. She saw the challenge as one of perfection, not of good, and so even though she'd gone several weeks in which the only meat she ate was a few scraps of bacon on a pizza slice, she'd clearly failed so she gave up. She'd tried to be "a vegetarian" and evidently couldn't do it, so instead of being someone who eats a few scraps of bacon each month, she reverted to her old non-vegetarian diet.
I guess I'm thinking that if, say, you wanted to encourage people to use less fossil fuels, would it make more sense to suggest that people try to bike, walk or take transit occasionally? Or should they sell their car and vow to not use any public transportation that's not solar powered? I mean, we can see how the perfect is the enemy of the good in that case, yes?
So I'm really questioning whether this "vegan challenge" is being honest about its goals. If it's about the planet then I think they're off the mark and going about this in a way that will have all the lasting impact of Earth Hour. If it's about morality, or "meat is murder" or the poor widdle animals then they're not being honest.
Nope. Some of us are seeking a balance where the ideological and the practical can meet. Or at least I am - even if it's just me, that scuttles "all". ;-)
I think he meant veganism - many vegetarians find sticking to a strict vegan diet very challenging. I certainly did, going from vegetarian to vegan.
Exactly. I expect that most vegetarians, at least those who give up meat in whole or in part due to their belief in animal welfare or animal rights, would have no problem not eating meat.
But it's my understanding that a lot of vegetarians try to go vegan and end up falling off the wagon because it's so dogmatic. And of course you can't be a vegan who sometimes eats honey.
I think that's like "perfect circle". If it ain't perfect, it's not a circle. Or a vegan.
I have a lot of admiration for those with the self-discipline to go veggie or vegan after having gone through most of a lifetime of eating meat. I knock meat out of my diet in mid-summer when the veggies are ready for picking in my garden and the selection of veggies and fruits is better at our two small stores, and generally I feel lighter and healthier. That last about three months of the year.
It's one week. You clearly have no idea what a full, 100% commitment would mean.
Presumably, organizers would hope that a few people change their eating habits as a result, or else you've got the same laughable outcomes that Earth Day does (a few people turn their lights off for an hour, feel like they've saved the planet, return to running the dishwasher for two forks).
Again, if this was really about saving the planet, a simple vegetarian diet would be more than enough to get most North Americans having to think about what they're eating. And since a simple vegetarian diet doesn't tell you you're a big loser if you fail to source out the beer that isn't filtered using bone charcoal, maybe some people would stay on.
I've heard tales.