Halton Catholic schools ban gay-straight alliance groups

I don't necessarily agree with banning "GSA"s but I also don't think it's a bad idea to have these broader groups against bullying, etc. Bullying goes on and it shouldn't but it's done for all sorts of reasons. When I was in school (not all that long ago) the people who seemed to get teased or picked on the most were the fat kids or people somehow deemed sociall awkward. Instead of having a myriad of groups like a "Fat Skinny Alliance", would it maybe just make sense to have a broad group of everyone dedicated to making schools more accepting and combatting bullying no matter what form it takes?

Your point is well-taken, Maysie, however it seems that the argument being put forward regarding GSAs is that their presence would reduce bullying against gay students, who tend to be a frequent target of bullying. Obviously, that's an important goal. I'd add that ALL bullying is unacceptable and needs to be countered whether directed at someone for their sexual orientation, their appearance, their ethnicity, the clothes they're wearing or any other reason.

But now you're saying that bullying is a "separate issue" and that it's more about promoting acceptance of homosexuality.

On this, I admit to being somewhat torn. I'm not in favour of public funding going to Catholic schools. In fact, I rather resent the special treatment that Catholic parents are receiving, given that back in the fall, I wrote a cheque for over $10,000 to send my stepdaughter to a school of OUR religion. However, if we are going to ahve Catholic schools (and it seems we are, for now at least) I don't know how you can expect to force them to promote things which go against their faith. Presumably, parents and students chose these schools knowing what they were getting into (and choosing BECAUSE of that). So, for example, my wife and I chose an orthodox Jewish school for our child. It would seem rather odd to later complain that she's not allowed to bring a ham and cheese sandwich into school. If a Muslim family sends their kids to a Muslim school, I don't think they'd be perplexed if the school didn't permit their kids to form the "Pork and Alcohol appreciation club".

So, by all means, get rid of the funding. But in the meantime, it seems weird that you can have a "catholic" school as long as they don't actually behave in a catholic manner.

Unionist, do you think that religious people SHOULD be forced to "go against their faith"? Should Jewish and Muslim schools be forced to allow pork in the cafeteria, for example? Should Hindus have to permit beef or Mormons have to serve coffee if such things are not permitted according to their religion?

Like, I said, I'm torn because they receive public funding. Which is why I don't think religions should be publically funded as it inevitably leads to conflicts like this.

I guess you have no tolerance for people whose religious beleifs are different from your own.

I'm not saying that one's taste in food is like one's sexual orientation. I'm questioning whether religious institutions should be allowed to abide by their religious beliefs if they receive public funding and I'm not exactly sure where I stand other than that they shouldn't get public funding in the first place.

You compared Catholic schools preaching hate against queer folks to Mulsim/Jewish kids wanting to bring a ham sandwich to privat school. That is saying that one's taste in food is comparable to one's sexual orientation.

You are free to believe whatever you want so long as it does not encourage the extermination of people based on who they are.

Actually, at least in Eastern Ontario, there are 4 school systems-- Public/English, Public/French, Catholic/English, Catholic/French. 

OK, perhaps I can't defend Catholic school systems on universalist grounds, and I certainly think that any individual school guilty of persistent organized homophobia should be closed.  However, my experience of Catholic education was not one of homophobia, simply an "almost secular" public school with daily religion class and occasional trips to the church. As a non-Catholic atheist homosexual I feel that I have not been damaged in any way by my attendance there; in fact, I think I would be rather less cosmopolitan if I had done my schooling in the rather more right-wing (in my view) public schools of the same geographic area. 

Catholic separate school systems are a part of the history and culture of Ontario; if you want them universally closed or converted then you have plenty of company. 

And yes I realize the irony of nominally Catholic schools operating under that name with more and more non-Catholic students and mainly secularized instructors.  But I have yet to be convinced that this particular historical concession to the Franco-Ontarian minority should be closed on universalist grounds.

When they organize clubs ("SIDE") to talk kids out of being homosexual, aren't they kind of asking to be padlocked? Just wondering.

@Lachine Scot

I had a very different experience in a Catholic school as a queer person. So did many my friends in highschool (same school). It was at times completely terrifying. Teachers in those religion classes would talk about how there was nothing wrong with gay people per se, but if they acted on their "gayness" they were committing a sin. Outside of religion class students and teachers often made homophobic remarks with total impunity. There were also many threats of violence that were not treated as serious because they were directed towards gay students. There were even cases of people attacking gay students (it was called a "fight" but it was not) and both students were suspended. These stories are common.

I'm not saying that your experiences are not valid. It's kinda like how there are some people who did not have a bad time in Residential Schools but their rare stories do not discount the institutionalized hatred and violence that affected lots of people.

Dodger, how would you feel if your kid went to public school and the school board passed a policy that only ham and cheese would be served in schools and no other lunches were allowed? Your kid could be suspended, harrased and beaten or s/he could go hungryevery day for five years, their choice. It's not that the school was against wanting to eat Kosher, they just strongly believed that people should only eat ham and cheese for lunch and those who did eat Kosher would go to hell. It is about externmination by the way. They want to rid "their" schools of queer people, that is the goal.

First they came for the socialists, communists, liberals, religious minorities etc. It just never ends.

You're right, this is no place for tolerance of others just more of the same Itchy vs Scratchy routine. Carry on.

I'm not defending the Church just like you don't defend the very misogynist Taliban in collaborating with their CIA and ISI friends long time to destroy secular socialist thought in Central Asia since the 1980s. I won't call you a hypocrite, no I won't. 

[Re-posted below to avoid thread disruption.]

Nice try, Maysie. I've advised the mods.

I don't know how anyone in this day and age can continue defending the Catholic Church, or any such homophobic and woman hating institutions.  It seems they're most effective in maintaining the sort of faith which leads people to uttlerly ignore the fact that the entire premise is based on hateful exclusion or assimilation.