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China #2

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6079_Smith_W
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Joined: Jun 10 2010

Well the most important way of improving, certainly, I wouldn't say it is the only factor.

As I said, I have no problem with making the situation as advantageous as possible for workers to unionize; even making unionization the default position and requiring them to have a vote to opt out or decertify.

But making it a government-enforced mandatory process seems to me something that takes the choice out of the workplace, and has the potential for corruption, IMO. As we see in our province, the government is all for unionizing - on their terms

I don't need to discuss it further; we disagree.


George Victor
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Joined: Oct 28 2007

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

George-- you could take it as a critique of your post not of the person -- a little harsh but not way out of line.

I asked I think more politely the same question -- can you clarify because I have no idea what you are trying to say.

I was counting on folks to read the opening posts of this thread, Sean, more than a year back.Before it became all about Canadian unions there was a struggle to save it from Beijing's announcements about the greening of China, the world.


George Victor
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Joined: Oct 28 2007

NDPP wrote:

Joey Ramone wrote:

This is why I gave up posting in this thread.  I'm interested in talking about how to best support the interests of the hyper exploited workers of China and it's colonies, but as long as the gang of corrupt thugs who rule China cynically call themselves the "Communist" Party of China, all such discussion will be derailed by obfuscation about whether their capitalists are more efficient than our capitalists. 

NDPP

Keep trying JR. It's important and will become more so. Do you know China Labour Bulletin?

Going It Alone

http://www.clb.org.hk/en/node/100507

 

 

 

 

 

JR did give up.  And so it goes.


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

George Victor wrote:

And back in China, the party leadership spend sleepless nights formulating appeals to the leaders of the resource-rich nations coming under their protection to keep workers' rights in mind.Laughing

The CPC are taking advantage of the massive corruption and economic meltdown in the west by scooping up world resources. Apparently we'll have to democratize our own corrupt states here before we can do anything to stop Beijing consensus from replacing the Washington version.


Northern Shoveler
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Joined: Feb 17 2011

George Victor wrote:

And back in China, the party leadership spend sleepless nights formulating appeals to the leaders of the resource-rich nations coming under their protection to keep workers' rights in mind.Laughing

And back in Ottawa the party leadership spent a sleepless night formulating appeals to the leaders of the resource rich nations coming under their protection to keep workers rights in mind.  At dawn they decided the best way to ensure the protection of those workers was to bomb the fuck out of them.  

I hate that China is so ruthless. If only they would listen to good Western governments they could improve so much.


Sean in Ottawa
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Joined: Jun 3 2003

Actually, the Chinese are fascinated by what other countries do and they do like to study the actions of other countries. The words, not so much. those are unwelcome. Everyone, plays the word game, mostly for domestic consumption. We are not swayed by advice from China anymore than they are by the same from us. But when we or they do something that clearly works the other notices.

Anyone who thinks that people here are concerned about the reception of any appeal we make over there I think is rather naive-- those are politically calculated for here. The only time either country is concerned about an appeal or advice is when their own citizen's are involved. When we have an issue with a Chinese national -- either they have done something wrong or are in trouble or are hurt-- we will listen to them more. And in reverse, they will to us.

The main reason so many Canadians are better off than people in most other countries is because of the wealth in this country not because our government is superior.

When people get that they can see that if you want to help people in other countries you have to tone down the exploitation. You want to do that? You can start with Canadian mining companies and lobby the government for regulation of their behavior abroad. You can look to our procurement practices and lobby for regulation to stop the competition for who can find the cheapest most exploitative contract that would be based on illegal treatment of workers here. We can also consider the waste in energy, the environment here. There is a lot we can do to help the world. Thankfully it mostly can be done from here. And if you are one of those interested in our influence and you want to reach countries like China remember they will watch what we do even if they do not consider what we say. And we pretty much do the same as well-- we also are more interested in what people do than say. It would not take all that much to achieve a greater understanding. I have had many political discussions with Chinese people-- one thing I can tell you from those-- they are not impressed by hypocrisy. Many I have spoken to are very critical of their government but don't take kindly to BS and double standards.Of course there are many Chinese I know who absolutely detest thinking about or discussing politics-- even more than Canadians.

Others may have a different experience but there is mine -- interesting representative or not.


Northern Shoveler
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Joined: Feb 17 2011

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

I have had many political discussions with Chinese people-- one thing I can tell you from those-- they are not impressed by hypocrisy. Many I have spoken to are very critical of their government but don't take kindly to BS and double standards.Of course there are many Chinese I know who absolutely detest thinking about or discussing politics-- even more than Canadians.

Others may have a different experience but there is mine -- interesting representative or not.

Living in Burnaby that has been my experience as well.  I have met numerous people who left China because they were being repressed.  I have also met a fair number of business people who immigrated from Hong Kong and Taiwan.  It seems the one thing they all agree on is they hate the hypocrisy of the West.  They want change in their former country but cringe at the Orientalism in most of the commentary.


Sean in Ottawa
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Joined: Jun 3 2003

The motivations for coming here is a whole interesting topic.

I know some who came because family members did, others who believed our propaganda about how much better it was here and how well immigrants were treated (some of those have returned now). The most common has been people who came as a visitor, made connections here, or studied and got job offers here and then immigrated. Of course now it is not like that anymore since immigration is a long wait with mostly refusals.

For parents and grandparents it is something over ten years now-- The people arriving now applied more than 7 years ago but those currently in the system know that each step is moving slower so previous history is no indication. The progress for those who applied in 2007 towards the first stage has been moving one day forward in a month for some time now. That means if you are one year away you would expect to come to the top of the pile in 30 years. We are pretty much not taking anyone now since the delay for grandparents is beyond reasonable life expectancy. Canada won't say no because hopeful people pay $2,000 each in fees. It is far too profitable to take their money and throw the applications in storage than to admit the answer is really no. As well by taking the applications the government then has the reason to refuse them from coming as visitors. Once a family member applies they pay the money, can never visit and will never get to immigrate. For Canada I heard that over 100,000 people still apply each year. That would come to $200,000,000 revenue a year to the government if the figures are true. To bad it is such a lie. Our family has relations in China that nobody can see because the kids are in summer school like arrangements and the grandparents are not allowed to visit.

Most Canadians like it this way because of the massive amount of anti-immigrant propaganda that has been spread around the last few years.


NDPP
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Joined: Dec 28 2008

Leading US Think Tank Urges Naval Buildup in South China Sea  -  by Jim Lobe

http://original.antiwar.com/lobe/2012/01/10/leading-think-tank-urges-nav...

"...As the decades-old-rules-based system fostered by the United States is being called into question by a rising China, the South China Sea will be the strategic bellwether for determining the future of US leadership in the Asia-Pacific region..."


ilha formosa
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Joined: Feb 1 2010

China Explores a Frontier 2 Miles Deep

Quote:

The men, who descended more than two miles in a craft the size of a small truck, also signaled Beijing's intention to take the lead in exploring remote and inaccessible parts of the ocean floor, which are rich in oil, minerals and other resources that the Chinese would like to mine. And many of those resources happen to lie in areas where China has clashed repeatedly with its neighbors over territorial claims...The global seabed is littered with what experts say is trillions of dollars' worth of mineral nodules as well as many objects of intelligence value: undersea cables carrying diplomatic communications, lost nuclear arms, sunken submarines and hundreds of warheads left over from missile tests. While a single small craft cannot reel in all these treasures, it does put China in an excellent position to go after them.


NDPP
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Kingdom, China Ink Nuclear Cooperation Pact

http://arabnews.com/saudiarabia/article563797.ece

"Saudi Arabia signed an agreement with China in Riyadh Sunday for cooperation in the development and use of atomic energy for peaceful purposes, which will help to meet the Kingdom's rising demand for energy and cut its growing dependence on depleting resources..."


Gaian
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Joined: Aug 5 2011
And back to a two-year struggle (which included the late Joey and the late Sean, and which I gave up on.) Please read the un-moderated farce, with attempts to maintain the topic of this thread,including the fate of workers in a voracious China. It is understood, a "given", that the U.S.empire is "bad", and does not need underlinging in thhis thread, as are all those corporations who exploit workers abroad, just as Naomi Klein brought to western attention more than a decade ago. The following bit from AP, which I first raised last year in an appeal to promote RIM's Blackberry hereabouts, rather than iPhone, and which was given prominence last year by a young Chinese activist who appeared on Al Jazeera, suggests there's been little progress: "Apple Inc. has disclosed a list of its suppliers for the iPhone, iPad and other popular gadgets for the first time amid growing criticism over labour and environmental practices, especially in China. "The list for years has beenstrictly and vervently protected. Even a glimpse of an Apple iPhone or its components before a public release became a source of iontrigue and controversy. Investors have played a guessing game about which contractors would become Apple's next supplier, or who was on the outs. "Apple disclosed its list of its suppliers responsible for 97 per cent of its procurement expenditures worldwide. Some examples are Intel Corp., Broadcom Corp., Amphenol Corp. and Sanyo Electric Co...The 2012 'Supploier Responsibility Progress Report' released Friday documents 229 audits throughout its supply chain last year by Apple Inc. That's up 80 per cent from 127 audits in 2010. "The audits found labour, health and environmental violations, including instances of underage labour and discrimination based on pregnancy. Apple also outlined its response to each of the violations that were uncovered, which included ending its relationship with repeat offenders and requiring companies to come up with measures to prevent them from occurring again. "The report was issued a day after distraught workers who make Microsoft's Xbox video game consoles at Foxconn Technology Group climbed to the top of a six-storey dormitory and threatened to jump to their deaths. No one did, but the incident highlights growing labour unrest in China. Foxconn is a unit of Taiwan's Hon Hai Precision Industry Co. that makes iPads and iPhones for Apple. "There was a rash of suicides at the massive Foxconn plant in 2010 in the city of Shenzhen. About 300,000 people work at the plant and industrial park.Plant managers installed nets to prevent more people from committing suicide by jumping from the roof. "In its report, Appled found...just 38 per cent of the suppliers observed Apple's working-hours policies, and 69 per cent followed its code for wages and benefits..."

ilha formosa
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Joined: Feb 1 2010

Greenpeace says it is winning against genetically engineered rice in China.


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

Why China makes our electronic products (it's not just cheaper labor)

Quote:
It's not just that workers are cheaper abroad, according to an important article in The New York Times Saturday. Most of the components of cellphones, computers, and other electronic products are now manufactured in China (and European and other East-Asia countries), so assembling the device half-a-world away would create huge logistical challenges, the article points out.

China now has a far larger supply of qualified engineers than the U.S. And China's factories are far bigger and can react faster than those in the U.S. "Made in the USA." is no longer a viable option for most electronics products. So, many companies have closed major facilities in the United States to reopen in China, and middle-class jobs are disappearing as the nation has stopped training enough people in the mid-level skills that factories need.


ilha formosa
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Joined: Feb 1 2010

Jan 25, 2012- Quelling of rising unrest in Tibet , following self-immolations.

Quote:
Stephanie Brigden, Free Tibet Director (a UK based group):
"The international community must unequivocally condemn these shootings and call on China to act with restraint as well as hold those who have opened fire to account. ... It's the largest shooting of Tibetan unarmed civilians since 2008."

 


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

Don't quote me but I think the Free Tibet movement and the notoriously well-informed Radio Free Asia are intimately tied to the American National Clandestine Service/CIA based out of Langley, Virginia. They've been active in various surrounding areas in Central Asia, Nepal, golden drug triangle in SE Asia etc for many years since Chiang Kai-shek and his gangsters were chased to Formosa and Burma by 1949. It's no wonder there has been "unrest." International unrest has tended to manifest as armed insurrections and even acts of terrorism in recent times.


ilha formosa
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Joined: Feb 1 2010

Careful not to conflate the broader "Free Tibet movement" with the Free Tibet NGO quoted above.

I don't think one can say the Free Tibet movement is being masterminded by the CIA. The main impetus for it comes from Tibetans themselves. But it would certainly be logical for the CIA, such as it is, to support the movement and try to steer it in certain directions. Which of course would harden the Chinese government position. Ordinary Tibetans pay the biggest price, being used as pawns.


ilha formosa
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Joined: Feb 1 2010

China shows signs of neo-fascism, J. Michael Cole, Taipei Times

Chinese Fascism's Global Consequences, Roland Farris, Truthout

Quote:
...we have already seen the early stages of this global trend. A powerful fascist state of such maturity and size in the world will increasingly come to determine political debate in nominally democratic countries as the economic advantages of such a regime draws more and more financial resources away from less "efficient" political systems. If China continues to be able to use its fascist state apparatus to attract investment at the cost of liberal democratic nations, then the characteristics of these nations will tend toward increasing fascism in an imitative defensive response.


ilha formosa
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Joined: Feb 1 2010

China Investment Deal in Canadian Oil Sands a Sell Out, Says Party Leader

Quote:
China's totalitarian regime will be able to sue Canada over lost profits resulting from stricter environmental controls or other regulatory changes under a foreign investor protection agreement Stephen Harper announced during his current trip to China..."Our rights and sovereignty to exercise over decisions made in Beijing are narrowing down to very few choices on a limited menu," [Elizabeth May] said.


Gaian
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Joined: Aug 5 2011
Thanks for these postings, formosa. It was with this inevitable outcome in mind that this thread was initiated two years ago.

NDPP
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Joined: Dec 28 2008

China Sets Up Fund to Bankroll Takeovers

http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,15748467,00.html?maca=en-rss-en-bus-2091-rdf

"Boasting $3.2 Trillion in foreign currency reserves, China has created a new fund aimed at financing takeover bids abroad. The fund also seeks to boost China's currency in global financial markets.."


ilha formosa
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Joined: Feb 1 2010

The People's Republic of Wukan , Gordon Chang, Dec. 2011

Quote:
The Chinese people, in Wukan, Haimen, and a thousand other locations, are pushing the Communist Party out of their way. This spring, the unrest could be historic.

Meanwile, the official triumphalism: The China Wave (Al-jazeera interview, Jan. 2012; don't know if this prof is an official CCP mouthpiece, but he certainly must be tantamount to one)

Quote:
Professor Zhang Weiwei...is now an international scholar arguing a case for China as the world's exceptional civilisation. In his latest book, The China Wave: the Rise of a Civilizational State, he offers a robust rebuttal of critics, especially in the West, who keep emphasising China's shortcomings.

I think the interviewer gave the prof a terribly easy time.


ilha formosa
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Joined: Feb 1 2010

Gaian wrote:
Thanks for these postings, formosa. It was with this inevitable outcome in mind that this thread was initiated two years ago.

哪裡, all too happy to have a place to aggregate articles and hopefully have some discussion.


Gaian
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Joined: Aug 5 2011
Perhaps you saw in the Globe and Mail Business Report this week: "What China wants" It reads: "China has revolutionaized the way most other nations produce and shop for goods. It's where the world goes when it's looking for a bargain. But increasingly, China may be looking at the rest of us in a similar manner. Between 2005 and 2011, Chinese firms invested more than $300 billion in global enterprises (about $73 billion last year alone), predominantly oil and gas companies, mines, banks and real estate. " Australia hold the top spot, with $40.8 billiions in investments there. I believe I'm beginning to better understand the restiveness in Australia's Labout Party and Rudd's attempt to regain the helm this weekend. :)

NDPP
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Joined: Dec 28 2008

Insight: Conflict Looms in South China Sea Oil Rush

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/28/us-china-spratlys-philippines-...

"A decades old territorial squabble over the South China Sea is now entering a new and more contentious chapter, as claimant nations search deeper into disputed waters for energy supplies while building up their navies and military alliances with other nations, particularly with the United States.

Reed Bank, claimed by both China and the Philipines, is just one of several possible flashpoints in the South China Sea that could force Washington to intervene in defense of its Southeast Asian allies."


ilha formosa
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Joined: Feb 1 2010

- It would also be bad news if valuable resources (other than seafood-which may be contaminated now anyway) are found in the disputed Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands just northeast of Taiwan, along the way to Okinawa. They are claimed by China, Taiwan and Japan - a potential trigger for an intriguing (given the unsettled situation between Taiwan and China) multi-sided conflict that could drag in the US. In a crafty move to strengthen its claims, Japan started giving the islands in the group Japanese names, during a mini-honeymoon period just after the Taiwan election in January, when the party favored by both the PRC and US (the KMT) won re-election.

- China interest in Argentina land irks locals - reportedly to grow genetically modified soy and corn, for animal feed and biofuels.

Like in Australia and around the world, the name of the game China is playing is "buy up resources before others do," an updated variant of "colonialism."

 


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

ilha formosa wrote:
Like in Australia and around the world, the name of the game China is playing is "buy up resources before others do," an updated variant of "colonialism."

They've been unsuccessful at buying into key sectors of the U.S. economy, though. Apparently British free trade theory only works for marauding western capital when used as a Trojan horse for buying Asian labour, real estate and valuable assets. The west has basically asked China to please commit economic suicide by opening up more markets to marauding capital and floating the Yuan, selling off state-owned banks and investment funds. And Beijing is basically telling western capitalists to go fuck themselves.


ilha formosa
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Joined: Feb 1 2010

Fidel wrote:

And Beijing is basically telling western capitalists to go fuck themselves.

They're getting more and more refined at this.

Hong Kong's new leader must restore trust

Quote:
Perhaps Leung's most difficult challenge will be paving the way for full suffrage in the next chief executive election in 2017, as promised by Beijing.


NDPP
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Joined: Dec 28 2008

Unplugging Americans From The Matrix  - by Paul Craig Roberts

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/04/20/unplugging-americans-from-the-mat...

"...The Chinese are less threatened by their 'extractive elites' than Americans are by their counterparts. Moreover, it is America's not China's extractive elites who are bombing, occupying, and droning other countries. As the bumber-sticker says, 'Be nice to America or we will bring democracy to your country..'

and their little [Canucklehead] dog too...


NDPP
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Joined: Dec 28 2008

The South China Sea is the Future of Conflict  -  by Robert D Kaplan

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/08/15/the_south_china_sea_is_...

"The 21st century's defining battleground is going to be on water.."


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