babble is rabble.ca's discussion board but it's much more than that: it's an online community for folks who just won't shut up. It's a place to tell each other — and the world — what's up with our work and campaigns.
Support rabble | Advertise with us | Contact our staff | About rabble | Log-in or Register for a new account | Corrections | Privacy policy | Newsfeeds | Mailing lists
rabble: Features | Columnists | In Cahoots | Blogs | Books | Photos | What's Up | Polls
babble: Forum Topics | Active Topics
The rpn: About the RPN | Become a podcaster
rabbleTV: Program Guide | Features | Indie Inside | Best of the net
Copyright © 2001-2013 the authors
Syndicate
That is far from a foregone conclusion at this point. Since Jack died there have been articles in the media casting doubt on whether or not he would be a good leader, from the same outlets that said Jack would do badly in the next election and that Mulcair was going to pick up the pieces for sure. Someone could come up and surprise the field.
And I think it's a bit ironic for someone on the left to use the right-wing media as some sort of authoritiative voice.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/decision+March+date+boosts+Mulcair+l...
I hope those who don't want Mulcair coalesce behind a left candidate soon.
The more he thinks his victory would be a coronation, the more confident Mulcair would be about the notion that he had a mandate to be rabidly anti-left and anti-internal democracy(I.e., "moderate")and the greater the danger would be that Mulcair would make an NDP victory meaningless by moving the party even further right. It would be worth no one's effort to elect a federal government that was like the Manitoba NDP government, or Bob Rae's Ontario regime AFTER he surrendered to Bay Street-especially if Mulcair was to try to "out hawk the hawks" on foreign policy, as his natural inclinations would lead him to do.
To me, the logical choice of a anti-Mulcair coalition would be Saganash. Saganash represents First Nations voters, francophones, the poor, the dispossessed, the outsiders and the idea of treating social movements and social activists with respect-Mulcair represents the suburbs, the uptight, and what the MSM wants the NDP to stand for...obedience and deference to the powers-that-be. And Mulcair is the sort that would probably argue that electing an NDP government, on a platform dictated solely by him(i.e., a platform that would automatically stand for nothing)was the only valid form of politics and that movements and activists were just annoyances to be treated with scorn. And who the hell would want an NDP leader that represents THAT? Nothing could ever be worth having an NDP prime minister invoke the War Measures Act, or to sic the cops on protesters.
Saganash just seems real to me in a way that Mulcair doesn't. Mulcair simply represents the establishment notion of what the NDP should limit itself to if it must be in contention for power...an agreement not to use government as a means to transform life, and an acceptance of the idea that politics should ONLY include the political elite itself.
In any case...whether you like Saganash or not...stop Mulcair(or Topp or Dewar)...it's the only way to make an NDP government matter. Centrism equals irrelevance.
C'mon official candidates, declare your intentions already!
If E May speaks in French and nobody listens...does she make a sound?
My impression is that the people who don't want Mulcair are not objecting to him for ideological reasons - its invariably issues about his personality. It sounds to me like the people who have issues with Mulcair will coalesce behind Brian Topp - and there is ZERO ideological difference between Topp and Mulcair - Topp is simply reputed to be a somewhat nicer person with more roots in the party and more knowledge of Canada outside Quebec.
In English-speaking Canada, yes (apart from the few who paid attention when he said "I'm not from Toronto, I'm from Montreal.") However, any Quebecois who wanted to know would know that the Layton's have been in Quebec since before the founding of Layton Brothers piano manufacturers in 1887. Jack's great-grandfather was a blind activist (and musician) who who founded the Montreal Association for the Blind in 1908 and led a campaign for disability pensions in the 1930s.
Yes, really. Have people ever met the people they're trashing, or listened to them closely?
Now, as it happens, I think a Saganash candidacy could be quite exciting. There is a Facebook group up already, encouraging him to run:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Romeo-Saganash-For-NDP-Leadership/192438304157779
And now there's one for Megan Leslie:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Megan-Leslie-for-Leader-of-the-NDP-Megan-L...
As well as people saying "Run" on her own page:
http://www.facebook.com/MeganLeslieMP
I would assume that those who are convinced that a Mulcair victory would unleash all sorts of evil on the world plan to take out an NDP membership, have their say, and put their money where their mouths are and step up to the plate?
Make no mistake about it, I have expressed concerns about a Mulcair-led NDP many times. But seriously, this talk about Mulcair or about the Blairite monster hiding under the bed is starting to sound like a witch hunt. It's quite ridiculous. Yes, there are valid concerns about the direction of the NDP, but there are more constructive approaches. And I'm sure I will have my differences with many on these boards in the coming months, but disagreement is okay, I'm prepared to work with those disagreements and find common ground and solutions. How about the rest of you?
It's ironic that you're using the term "witch hunt" here, given that term is usually used(justly)for center, center-right, and right-wing persecution of people on the left(or simply suspected of being TOO far left), rather than the expression of suspicions about people in the center by people on the left.
I oppose Mulcair for the leadership...I don't want the guy burned at the stake, let alone stripped of his passport(as Paul Robeson was)or blacklisted from all but menial employment(as dissidents in the late 1940's U.S. AND the Soviet Union were) . He'd be a great Cabinet minister(so long as he wasn't at External Affairs-he's always been too Likudnik for that position), but the leader shouldn't be a person who's reflexively hostile to the social movements, as Mulcair can be assumed to be. OK?
Besides, it's not as if he's possessed of any personal electoral magic beyond all other mere mortals...if he was, he wouldn't have come close to LOSING Outremont in 2008.
Wow. Given the passions being stirred up here, it will really be up to the candidates to keep the discourse civil.
I certainly don't want the party to move to the right but can someone show me evidence that Mulcair is a centrist?
His stance on the I/P issue is one example. And yes, those that oppose or support ANY particular candidate should take out an NDP membership.
What stance is that?
His equation of anti-Zionism with antisemitism. He's been quoted on that.
Quote?
This is just my point. You're making assumptions without having even met the man, or heard him out. Why?
I wish people wouldn't do this. It's so unproductive.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/09/12/pol-ndp-brian-topp.html
@ Ken Burch #101
Since this thread is about to be retired anyway, I suppose a small diversion is okay.
I don't think any one political movement has a trademark on the use of "witch hunt". Arthur Miller may have used the image as a metaphor for McCarthyism, but Orwell used it to refer to something quite different.
And if you google 'Cambodia" "witch hunt" you can read about accusations (against the UN) of witch hunts against the Khmer Rouge, who were themselves accused of witch hunts (for among other things, wearing glasses).
I'm still searching for the precise quote of Mulcair I was thinking of, but unionist will remember it and it's come up in several threads here. I have to leave town for a week for my work now(as I do every other week)but will continue searching for the quote in question.
I'm not dodging the issue, just haven't located the precise reference as of yet.
John Rafferty:
Lots of his friends say "Go for it."
It is sad to see this kind of cannibalism aimed at Thomas Mulcair with so little factual basis. It is similar in tone (if not exactly ideology) to what I would expect from the Conservatives.
We can anticipate much anti-Mulcair propaganda from the mSM and the other parties, precisely because they perceive him as the candidate most likely to lift the NDP into power.
Must we endure it here on Babble as well?
It is sad to see this kind of cannibalism aimed at Thomas Mulcair with so little factual basis. It is similar in tone (if not exactly ideology) to what I would expect from the Conservatives.
We can anticipate much anti-Mulcair propaganda from the mSM and the other parties, precisely because they perceive him as the candidate most likely to lift the NDP into power.
Must we endure it here on Babble as well?
It is sad to see this kind of cannibalism aimed at Thomas Mulcair with so little factual basis. It is similar in tone (if not exactly ideology) to what I would expect from the Conservatives.
We can anticipate much anti-Mulcair propaganda from the mSM and the other parties, precisely because they perceive him as the candidate most likely to lift the NDP into power.
Must we endure it here on Babble as well?
Sorry for thr tripple post
Cannibalism? Jeez!!
I was opposing the guy as a possible party leader...I don't want to saute' him in a calvados reduction with a side of poutine!
Continued here.