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More Electoral Maps

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Wilf Day
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Joined: Oct 31 2002
Krago wrote:

Here is the draft report of the Krago Commission to draw 124 ridings in Ontario, based on the proposed changes to the seat formula.

Proposed 124 Ontario Ridings 

Oh, dear. All that work, and now it's to be 119 ridings? Is the Krago Commission going to revise its report now, or wait for the bill? And then wait for the final census figures? But that's a tight time-frame: Publication of census data February 8, 2012 Allocation of seats February 9, 2012 Establishment of commissions No later than April 8, 2012 http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=res&dir=cir/red/over&docume...


David Young
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Joined: Dec 9 2007

Any early ideas where Quebec's five new seats would be created?  On the island of Montreal?  the suburbs?

 


Wilf Day
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Joined: Oct 31 2002
David Young wrote:

Any early ideas where Quebec's five new seats would be created?  On the island of Montreal?  the suburbs?

 

It may be only two new seats; anyway, the biggest growth area is the Montreal suburbs. The Outaouais is also a growth area. Maybe the riding that straddles the edge of it (Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel) will become entirely within the Outaouais. The real problem will be, how many seats do the no-growth areas lose (Centre-du-Quebec, Chaudière-Appalaches, Bas-Saint-Laurent, Gaspésie.) Maybe three? and five new ones for the growth areas?


David Young
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Joined: Dec 9 2007

Wilf Day wrote:
David Young wrote:

Any early ideas where Quebec's five new seats would be created?  On the island of Montreal?  the suburbs?

 

It may be only two new seats; anyway, the biggest growth area is the Montreal suburbs. The Outaouais is also a growth area. Maybe the riding that straddles the edge of it (Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel) will become entirely within the Outaouais. The real problem will be, how many seats do the no-growth areas lose (Centre-du-Quebec, Chaudière-Appalaches, Bas-Saint-Laurent, Gaspésie.) Maybe three? and five new ones for the growth areas?

The news story stated that Quebec would be getting 5 new seats, so if some rural areas (where the Conservatives have their strongest support) will lose seats, won't that mean even more seats in the area in and around Montreal, where the NDP stands a much better chance of winning them?

 


toaster
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Joined: Sep 5 2011

^^ I have a hard time with any province that will be adding seats to take away rural/northern seats.  Just because an area isn't growing (but isn't losing population either) doesn't mean it should lose representation, IMO.  Just because the areas happen to be in provinces where other areas in that same are growing rapidly.  I mean any of the Maritime provinces would not lose seats to be put it Montreal or Ontario, so why should Northern Ontario or Rural Quebec.


Robo
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Joined: Jun 1 2003

So, Krago, would you like to post an "Ontario 121 Map", to complement Postings #12, #43, #78, and #84 above?


Wilf Day
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Joined: Oct 31 2002
Robo wrote:

So, Krago, would you like to post an "Ontario 121 Map", to complement Postings #12, #43, #78, and #84 above?

While waiting for Krago, here's a start.

Now that we know Ontario will have 121 ridings, we can have another look at boundaries.

I will try to follow districts and counties as much as possible, and District School Boards such as the Near North Board (Parry Sound – Nipissing).

We have some handy 2011 population estimates by districts and counties from the Ontario government:

http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/economy/demographics/projections/table6.html

The North, which now has nine seats north of the French River, but adding Parry Sound, deserves 7.18 seats by population, due to stagnant population numbers and actual declines in Rainy River, Timiskaming and Cochrane. I am assuming they will keep nine by adding Parry Sound, with average populations 80.96% of the Ontario 2011 quotient. In southern Ontario, I am assuming no greater than 10% deviation from the southern Ontario quotient of about 112,191.

Here’s what I find:

Ottawa – Prescott & Russell 9

Renfrew 1

Stormont, Dundas & Glengarry 1

Leeds & Grenville 1

Kingston-Frontenac-Lanark 2

Hastings-Prince Edward - Lennox & Addington 2

Peterborough 1

Northumberland—Peterborough 1

Kawartha Lakes—Haliburton 1

York-Durham 15

(includes a Durham North—Georgina alignment)

Simcoe-Muskoka-Dufferin (excluding North Dufferin) 5

(includes a South Simcoe—Dufferin alignment)

Grey — North Dufferin 1

Bruce-Huron-Perth 2

Toronto 24

Peel 12

Guelph-Wellington 2

Halton-Hamilton 9

Niagara Region 4

(Niagara Falls -– Fort Erie, St. Catharines—Niagara-on-the-Lake, Niagara Centre (includes Pelham and Wainfleet), St. Catharines -- Lincoln (include 31% of St. Catharines)

Haldimand-Norfolk 1

Waterloo-Brant 6

(includes a Waterloo South-Brant North alignment)

Oxford 1

London-Middlesex-Elgin 5

(London 3, Elgin--Middlesex: Elgin + Southwest Middlesex and reserves + 2% of London; Middlesex--London: most of Middlesex and 11% of London)

Windsor-Essex - Chatham-Kent – Lambton 6

(Windsor 2, Lakeshore-Tecumseh-Lasalle-Amherstburg 1; Essex – West Kent 1; Chatham-Kent—Lambton includes 72% of Chatham-Kent plus Petrolia, Oil Springs, Enniskillen, Dawn-Euphemia, Brooke-Alvinston, and Warwick; Sarnia—Lambton 1)

Parry Sound-Nipissing

Timiskaming-Nickel Belt

Cochrane

Sudbury

Sudbury-Algoma-Manitoulin (includes Bruce Mines)

Sault Ste. Marie (includes Michipicoten (Wawa))

Thunder Bay – Superior (includes White River and Hornepayne)

Thunder Bay – Fort Frances

Kenora – West Rainy River

15 more MPs: Peel 3.5, York 3, Toronto 1.5, Durham 1, Halton-Hamilton 1, Niagara 0.5, Waterloo 1, Simcoe 0.5, London-Windsor 1, Ottawa 1, Kingston–Peterborough 1


Orangutan
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Joined: Nov 12 2011

What software or program are you using to make your maps?  

 

Also, if you ever have time and can get around to it, how about these maps:

Newfoundland & Labrador

Cape Breton

Kenora

Simcoe/Grey/Dufferin counties

Peterborough & area

Kingston & area

Northern Saskatchewan

BC Interior 


Wilf Day
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Joined: Oct 31 2002
David Young wrote:

Any early ideas where Quebec's (three) new seats would be created?  On the island of Montreal?  the suburbs?

I've had a preliminary look, using Quebec's 2010 figures for their 17 Administrative Regions which are the first thing any new Commission should look at, and the electoral quotient of 102,303. Montreal and suburbs likely get four more.

http://www.stat.gouv.qc.ca/donstat/societe/demographie/dons_regnl/region...

Other than the metro Montreal growth area, most of the regions should be pretty unchanged betwen 2010 and 2011.

I don't see as much problem dealing with low-growth areas as I expected. The biggest is Saguenay–Lac-Saint-Jean which has 2.67 electoral quotients. To keep its three seats, as I have no doubt it will, means an average deviation of 11.1%, hardly extreme. And then there's Maurice—Centre-du-Quebec with 4.84 electoral quotients, where five seats means an average deviation of only 3.3%.

Nord-du-Québec, with 0.416 quotients, is entitled to special consideration. However, it and Abitibi-Témiscamingue, which now has 1.426 quotients, now share two seats, for an average deviation of only 8.1%. No problem.

Manicouagan can claim special consideration. However, the Côte-Nord region has enough people for one seat, with a deviation of only 6.6%. That means adding the 12,000 people of the compact municipality of La Haute Côte-Nord to Manicouagan, but the result is to put the whole Côte-Nord into one riding, a good thing to do.

Îles-de-la-Madeleine can claim special consideration. However, it is already part of Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine riding. To make that riding match Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine region means adding the 12,000 people of La Haute-Gaspésie, again a good thing to do, making a riding 8.3% below quotient. Still, the Bas-Saint-Laurent-Gaspésie regions lose a half a seat.

Bas-Saint-Laurent should have two seats with a deviation of only 1.6% below quotient. Guy Caron will not be happy since the city of Rimouski ends up in Rimouski-Matane-Matapédia-La Mitis where he has to run against the young Bloc star Jean-François Fortin, while the rest of Rimouski county is in Rivière-du-Loup—Kamouraska—Témiscouata—Rimouski where François Lapointe will likely expect to seek re-election.

This assumes that, in the four Chaudière-Appalaches ridings (3.98 quotients), minister Steven Blaney will run in Bellechasse—Montmagny—L'Islet, minister Christian Paradis in Les Appalaches—Lotbinière—Lévis, Jacques Gourde in Lévis (an NDP target riding), and (of course) reborn minister Maxime Bernier in Beauce.

The Capitale-Nationale region will rate seven seats, as it now has.

In Mauricie—Centre-du-Quebec which rates about 4.84 ridings and now has 5.03, Shawinigan—Maskinongé—Mekinac—La Tuque is a little above quotient, Trois-Rivières—Les Chenaux and Trois-Rivières—Becancour—Nicolet are each about 3% below quotient, Drummond is 4% below quotient, and Arthabasca—L'Érable (with a Bloc MP) is 9% below.

Estrie rates 3 ridings, each an average of 1% over quotient: Sherbrooke-nord, Sherbrooke-Magog, and Estrie—Saint-François.

Jumping over to the Outaouais, it rates 3.6 ridings, up from 3.2 ridings today. Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel becomes Argenteuil—Papineau—Gatineau-est.

So now we come to the new seats: Laurentides—Lanaudière (excluding Argenteuil) rates 9.7 seats, Laval 4. Vaudreuil-Soulanges is growing so fast (the second-largest riding in Quebec, by voters on the list) it needs to shift Île-Perrot to Montreal giving Montreal 19.4, and Montérégie about 14. However, due to some of the lower density seats, I have only 46 left, about one short (not bad). Montreal (including Île-Perrot) 19 (up 1), Montérégie 14 (up from 13.2 today), Laval 4 (up one-half), Laurentides—Lanaudière 9 (up from 7.5 today), the biggest winner (Montcalm is the largest riding in Quebec.)


Wilf Day
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Joined: Oct 31 2002
Krago wrote:

There is an even bigger keener than me who has prepared poll-by-poll Google Maps for every riding.  You can find them here.

Remarkable. For example, I checked Pierrefonds-Dollard to see how Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe managed to win such a riding, and found a unique poll, Poll 1 on L'Île-Bizard:

CPC Evereklian 62

LIB Patry 62

NDP Blanchette-Lamothe 62

GRN Lumer 4

BQ Jolicoeur 4

And I see Pauline Marois and her husband live on L'Île-Bizard. Lonely for them; only two other Bloc voters?


adma
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Joined: Jan 21 2006

Wilf Day wrote:
And I see Pauline Marois and her husband live on L'Île-Bizard. Lonely for them; only two other Bloc voters?

 

I know you're being snarky; but Poll 2 had 26 votes, Poll 3 had 27, and...well, all in all on L'Île-Bizard on E-day by my calculation, the Bloc got 690 votes and 11.6%, which was well above the just-under-5% it got riding-wide...


Wilf Day
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Joined: Oct 31 2002
adma wrote:

Wilf Day wrote:
And I see Pauline Marois and her husband live on L'Île-Bizard. Lonely for them; only two other Bloc voters?

 

I know you're being snarky; but Poll 2 had 26 votes, Poll 3 had 27, and...well, all in all on L'Île-Bizard on E-day by my calculation, the Bloc got 690 votes and 11.6%, which was well above the just-under-5% it got riding-wide...

I'll take your word for it. Still, the Bloc ran fourth on L'Île-Bizard; the NDP carried every poll except the one three-way tie. An odd place for Marois and her husband to live, eh? (As many Quebec commentators have been saying for some time.) I read that they are trying to sell their mansion; what took them so long?


Debater
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Joined: Apr 17 2009

Wilf Day wrote:
Krago wrote:

There is an even bigger keener than me who has prepared poll-by-poll Google Maps for every riding.  You can find them here.

Remarkable. For example, I checked Pierrefonds-Dollard to see how Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe managed to win such a riding, and found a unique poll, Poll 1 on L'Île-Bizard:

CPC Evereklian 62

LIB Patry 62

NDP Blanchette-Lamothe 62

GRN Lumer 4

BQ Jolicoeur 4

And I see Pauline Marois and her husband live on L'Île-Bizard. Lonely for them; only two other Bloc voters?

Pierrefonds-Dollard was a big upset, as were a couple of the other Liberal strongholds that went NDP (eg. Notre Dame De Grace-Lachine, LaSalle-Emard etc.).

The question is, will these ridings on West Island stay NDP or will they go back to their Liberal roots?  They have large anglophone and federalist populations.  Do these NDP MP's intend to oppose the NDP's pro-Bill 101 and anti-Clarity Act policies?  Because if they don't, they leave themselves vulnerable to defeat next time around.


Wilf Day
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Joined: Oct 31 2002
Mr. Jean-Pierre Kingsley:
Quote:
If I were to advise a commission on anything, I would say that instead of aiming at the 25% variation, aim at the 15% maximum. If you look at the results, this is generally what they do. I don't think there were exceptions, except maybe in one or two small provinces that are geographically spread out.

The exception for very remote areas, which means they can vary by more than 25%, should be maintained, because this is Canada. This is the way it is. Northern Saskatchewan is northern Saskatchewan. That is true for Alberta as well. You can't change that.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?DocId=5256072&Language=E&Mode=1&Parl=41&Ses=1

Mr. Michael Pal (Fellow, Mowat Centre, University of Toronto - School of Public Policy and Governance):

Quote:
At the Mowat Centre, we suggest that this bill should be amended to allow only a 5% to 10% variance, with some exemptions for ridings such as Labrador. Labrador is separated from the rest of Newfoundland by water. It only has 25,000 or 30,000 people, and it doesn't make sense to connect that riding with another riding in Newfoundland. That's the kind of riding where an exemption would be valid.

Dr. Nelson Wiseman (Associate Professor, Department of Political Science, University of Toronto, As an Individual):

Quote:
. . legislation permits a 25% variation above and below provincial average size, when you take into account the seats allowed to each province. The Supreme Court has upheld this variation. I have no problem with it, although like Michael, I would prefer that it be narrowed, perhaps to 10% or possibly 15%.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?DocId=5265161&Language=E&Mode=1&Parl=41&Ses=1

Mrs. Vivian Barbot (Interim President, Bloc Québécois):

Quote:
. . with Bill C-20, which essentially constitutes an attack on the Quebec nation, the masks are off. The pseudo-federalism of openness, in which the Conservatives wrap themselves in an attempt to charm Quebec voters, is over. With Bill C-20, that has become a closed federalism, a federalism of break-up and abandonment of Quebec. We see that the principles that led to the creation of Canada, particularly the union of two founding peoples, no longer mean anything for the current government. We also see that the recognition of the Quebec nation by the House of Commons in November 2006 is an empty shell. Nearly five years to day after that acknowledgement, we are now compelled to note that it will never result in real action, as though mere recognition had closed the debate for good.

Bill C-20 dispels the last illusions. The only place that Quebec could occupy in Canada is a place of promises among others in a country that is not like it and does not take that fact into account, in a country that seeks to limit its distinct voice, that wants and is trying to build itself without it. The Bloc Québécois is not the only group that has denounced the bill. On three occasions, Quebec's National Assembly has unanimously spoken out against the federal government's wish to marginalize the Quebec nation in the House of Commons. That was a denunciation by all the elected members of the National Assembly, federalist and sovereigntist, on the left and on the right. The most recent unanimous motion dates back to April 12, 2010. It reaffirms that Quebec, as a nation, must be able to enjoy special protection of its relative representation in the House of Commons and asks the elected members of all political parties sitting in Ottawa to refuse to pass any bill that would reduce Quebec's relative representation in the House. It is clear that this call has been deliberately ignored by the majority of members in the House of Commons.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?DocId=5275407&Language=E&Mode=1&Parl=41&Ses=1

There was also some discussion on cutting six seats (two from Saskatchewan, two from Manitoba, and one each from Nova Scotia and Newfoundland and Labrador.) This in turn would make it possible to cut a couple of seats from Ontario, and so on. We would still have a lot more than 308 MPs. I can't see the pain being worth the gain.


Rebecca West
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Joined: Nov 28 2001

Closing for length.


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