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Which helps to explain why you get so worked up over things when the real bricks start flying.
No, SJ, in summer 2010, when the real bricks started flying, the real pricks were long gone, their job done.
At any rate...a movement of this nature is bound to fail if they insist on making the same mistakes as the society they're arguing against. They'll become fractured, compartmentalized and isolated. If they can't walk and chew at the same time with respect to systemic marginalization and oppression, they have no business representing anyone let alone the 99%, when its the 1%'s everyday expectation of us they're actually mirroring.
Exactly.
The other thing is that there's bound to be mistakes in that regard. How could there not be with the level of conditioning that exists. They have to be corrected in order to move on to the next issue.
..with a diversity of people come a diversity of issues. some observations from the van occupy:
..there is no official leaders. so if something does happens who do you talk to? and if you report something to say security..they have no authority. and they often need to go over to the information tent and have a discussion with someone or ones there. when something threatens the encampment in some way a collective decision gets made..by the assembly if possible but with as many people you can, if not.
..there are work groups and committees that are very approachable and a way of raising your issue. or you can stand where people are gather and say “mic check” 2xs. people will repeat the check and then you can state your case. a 1/2 hr before the assembly is to meet we have a time to add something to the agenda. there are limits but serious issues are not ignored. people here don't shy away from controversy.
..the most repeated word in the camp is patience. yes we have problems. but we didn't come into this prepackaged. there are folks out there who have skills that are very much in demand here in trying to work this all out. more are needed as the workload is heavy. a motion is going to city council today for the removal of occupy van. working in these conditions is not easy but rest assured we are doing our best.
Seems to me like an unavoidable allocation issue. If there isn't enough yurt space for everyone, not everyone can sleep in a yurt and you need some way to figure out who gets to. The assumption that an unattended yurt is going to turn into a crack den is a bit much but they are quite costly and for Occupy Toronto, vital items. I don't blame them for trying to protect them.
..i disagree. it's a process issue. if you disagree with something going on there needs to be a way to resolve it rather then some folks just taking a dessison. in this case i feel it this needs to come to the assembly and in van there is a way to get it there. i'm sure that is the case in to.
..here we decreed that if you used a mic it was a power position and boundries were established. the same with facilitaters. they facilitated only and if they want to share their opinion they would need to leave the platform and join the rest of the assembly. power is a sensitive issue and must be adressed directly. it doesn't mater who is right or wrong.
edit: and in this encampment the assembly is the closest thing to the ultimate decider. a block vote in the assembly means that someone is so opposed to a position that she or he is prepared to leave the occupy. these are the building blocs of a future where decissions are made in the community and polititions are managers that implement those decisions. and not decission makers.
Holy smokes. Did anyone read the article?
Where does it say that anyone other than the assembly will make the decision? All we know is that the yurt is locked up until they decide.
One person is quoted as saying "We have to make sure [the yurts are] policed properly so they don’t turn into crack dens." That person is identified as being a member of the food team - not the Supreme Chair and Dear Leader. He expressed an opinion when some reporter waltzed along.
Molehill, meet mountain.
I just heard that at 10pm tonight, London, ON police are going into Victoria Park to oust the Occupy London people. Thank you Mayor Joe Fontana.
What the hell is this "Democratic Renaissance" in capital letters, btw? The person who started this thread started at least three others with those words in the title?
It's Truman. He's hoping for a renaissance of the Democratic Party. Good luck with that.
I didn't think they ran in Canada-wouldn't there be an eligibility issue?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_College#Drug_culture
I love what's happening. That's why I didnt put in editorial. I just asked "Why? Why not?" This kind of empassioned discussion is exactly what I was looking for.
But just because decisions are hard, doesnt mean we wont have to make them.
http://www.nowtoronto.com/news/story.cfm?content=183419
In closing, I'd like to remind people that the state is certainly not above pushing drugs, especially to leaders of marginalized communities, in order to stifle dissent, both by clouding the minds of activists and as a pretext for the use of force.
COINTELPRO anyone?
You gotta use? Fine. You want to look after users? Fine. Walk them off the site, look after them while they're on the nod, then bring them back to a tent and a sleeping bag and a meal and clean clothes and a community that gives a shit.
A Proposal From OWS - Spokes Councils
http://occupyto.org/2011/11/02/a-proposal-from-ows-spokes-councils/
"Occupy Wall Street recently proposed Spokes Councils. This is an interesting concept that maybe could be considered by Occupy Toronto to get more people involved and make us more productive as a whole.."
what's up currently at www.occupyto.org
Could they be losing focus a little here? Occupy Toronto walks in solidarity with Tibet
Why? Because they're protesting an imperialist policy of the People's Republic of Wal-Mart, y'know, where our overlords sent our jobs to be done by their slaves?
Protest everything and you might as well be protesting nothing.
wow. you're deep maaaaaaaaaaaaaan
Occupy Wall Street Protests in Greater China
http://chinastudygroup.net/2011/10/occupy-wall-street-protests-in-greate...
"A group of several hundred individuals in Zhengzhou protested earlier today in support of Occupy Wall Street, I believe earning them the first public action in China related to the occupation..."
well given that they are 'occupying' Missassauga sovereign land, and constitute the citizenry of a settler-state - it does all seem a bit...muddled.
it seems the occupy toronto movement is more occupied with how to peacefully live in the park while keeping drugs and violence out of their mvoement than about the original message of the occupy toronto. we need to stay focus on our demands, not on the process.
So re the above - 2 more relevent pieces:
Can Revolutionary Pacifism Deliver Peace? by Noam Chomsky
http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/287-124/8264-can-revolutionary-p...
"The global conquest took a particularly horrifying form in what is sometimes called 'the Anglosphere', England and its offshoots, settler-colonial societies in which the Indigenous were devastated and their societies dispersed or exterminated..."
Constitutional Democracy V Unconstitutional Empire - by W'Lawpsh
http://dissidentvoice.org/2011/09/constitutional-democracy-v-unconstitut...
"There is a real court case pending; or sort of pending except for the fact the Clerk of the Supreme Court of the US is blocking the Courthouse door to prevent the case from entering and being put in a file that will end up before the Justices and require a decision by them, supported by rational reasons for Judgment.
Its name is Mahican Tribe and Rick Vanguilder and Mi'kmaq Tribe and Gary Metallic v Canada, France, Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, Russia, United Kingdom and United States.
But the issue it raises amounts to asking the nine Judges of the most powerful court in the world to answer the constitutional question of Constitutional Democracy v Unconstitutional Empire in favor of constitutional democracy over unconstitutional empire.
Since that particular court is the imperial court of the empire, the question is really asking them to do a coup amounting to a counter counter-revolution..."
Wall Street is Mahican Tribal Territory yet despite supporting numerous other issues and causes, OWS or indeed Occupy Toronto, has NOT yet seen fit to march against the threshold issue the original sin of settler-colonialism, genocide and THEIR OWN ILLEGAL OCCUPATION. Some contradictions are never resolved, seldom raised, frequently avoided.
Free Tibet eh?
What about Caledonia?
They seem to be more taken up with removing or hiding certain conditions that have more or less resulted from economic oppression, along with the people represented within the conditions, anything apparently which might provide the authorities with a pretext to assault the encampment, while missing the point entirely that power is adept at inventing pretext if it is not first handed to it on a platter. In doing so, they protest against the existing economical structure by mimicking the way economy controls and categorizes 'their' society at large. In their outrage against the existing corporatist civilization, the occupy leaders have set about creating their own civilized spaces from which to register their outrage against a civilization that excels at hiding the problems it has created and magnified...taking lessons from it it seems. And no littering please....its the environment after all.
Yeah, I think the way to grow the movement is to let people know that drugs, violence, petty crime, spousal abuse, littering, etc. are all welcome in the encampment - oh, and masks and rocks and incendiary bombs too! We're not the well-fed comfortable first-world liberals, ya know - we're embracing the conditions that result from our economic oppression! And the cops won't be happy for an excuse to shut us down... No, they don't need excuses, they just crush us any time they like, so we might as well bring out the heavy weapons - we're not waiting for the revolution, we're losing it today!!
It wasn't meant to be deep. Nobody achieves any one thing by trying to do everything. It would be like trying to win a tug-of-war by attaching a bunch of strings to the rope, handing them out and telling people to run in all directions.
Well put unionist.