babble-intro-img
babble is rabble.ca's discussion board but it's much more than that: it's an online community for folks who just won't shut up. It's a place to tell each other — and the world — what's up with our work and campaigns.

Aliens Land!

102 replies [Last post]

Comments

Fidel
Offline
Joined: Apr 29 2004

I don't think they would want to probe Snert. He'd probably gross them out.

There are people who still believe that we are the crowning glory of Darwinian evolution in the universe. Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell come to mind.  Oh and of course, some babbler named Snert, too. You're in good company, Snert.


Snert
Offline
Joined: Nov 4 2008

Quote:

 

I laughed out loud the first time, Snert; but the second post, well, it's just sounding a bit obsessive...

 

I should have just left it, but I guess having it taken seriously caught me by surprise.

 


Fidel
Offline
Joined: Apr 29 2004

We don't take Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell seriously. Why should we think any differently of you, Snert?


al-Qa'bong
Offline
Joined: Feb 27 2003

Snert wrote:

Quote:
Why do people go to the zoo?

 

Not to probe the animals' asses. Also, if the zoo were 142 light years away, I think people especially wouldn't travel all that way just to probe some zebra butt.

 

The Kids in the Hall raised a similar point.  Why would aliens go to all that trouble just for a few anal probes?  All they learned was that one subject in ten didn't seem to mind.

 

 

 


Fidel
Offline
Joined: Apr 29 2004

Robertson Advocates Stoning for UFO Enthusiasts

Armchair UFO debunkers have quite a few things in common with creationists. They are rarely if ever objective when preaching their armchair debunkery.

Shoot Them Down! - The Flying Saucer Air Wars Of 1952

"Wull, why don't they land on the White House lawn, billy bob?


Fidel
Offline
Joined: Apr 29 2004

Jingles wrote:
Germany and Japan, presumably without the benefit of shitty alien drivers, managed to keep pace and/or outpace the US in technological development since the end of WWII.

You're assuming that the US couldn't compete with Japan and Germany without advanced technology from the heavens. Apparently it's not so hard to compete with ordinary earthlings using technology developed using Keynesian-socialist methods right there in the US. TVs and radios computers, US satellite tech, GPS, modern oil well drilling technology, metallurgical and medical advances etc in the US were a result of basic research and much of it subsidized by US taxpayers and handed off to a few hundred rich families, private enterprise and "the market."

They would have looked really stupid not being able to compete in markets which they themselves created. And still they had stiff competition from Japan and Germany. But there is another reason why Japan's economy spiraled after 1987, and it had nothing to do with not being able to compete with American industries and technology and everything to do with the Plaza Accord.

Alas, the armchair debunkery is easily reverse debunked using ordinary grey matter.

Jingles wrote:
Where is all the cool shit we're presuming comes from capturing a priceless alien technology?

If you were to give a library of the most informative science and technology texts to some chimps at the zoo, how long would it take them to invent something useful for them and all of their friends? And would they share it with working class slob-monkeys? What would their motivation be if the rest of the chimps are already pacified with ordinary useless widgets and are servile and obedient?

There is a long history of governments recovering crashed air vehicles of their enemies and studying them in secret to gain military insight and advantage. The problem with revealing super-duper advanced technology to the world is that your enemies would probably use the advanced tech in a military way against you at some point. And there goes your top secret superduper advantage. Best keep it under heavily armed guard at Wright Patterson afb, area 51 or wherever, and create a national security oriented military dictatorship beginning in 1947.

1947? Whoomp there it is! And...

Scientists will be discovering new laws of nature within the next ten or 20 years at CERN lab in Switzerland. Every time a new law of nature has been discovered, there were revolutionary technologies developed as a result. We are actually on the verge of a new age in scientific discovery and technological advancement. New laws of nature? Coincidence?


Fidel
Offline
Joined: Apr 29 2004

Pseudo-Science of Anti-Ufology

Stanton Friedman wrote:
For more than 60 years the primary approach by the media and scientific communities to the subject of UFOs and Flying Saucers has been based on pseudo-science. Proclamations and attacks, often given the appearance of being scientific, have been launched at every aspect of the phenomena. Despite an enormous array of real evidence and data, we have been treated to false claims, false reasoning, bias and ignorance. The basic rules of pseudo-science have been followed, including especially that there are no good reasons to present solid scientific information, that absence of evidence in the hands of the writers and proclaimers is proof of absence of such evidence, that everything claimed by a debunker must be true, that everything claimed by a believer is false, that one must denigrate “believers” and “buffs”, but accept all attacks as legitimate. [...]

The common features of these attacks include:


A. A failure to look at the literature that is available about all of these.

B. An unwillingness to recognize that the “specific details of how something is to be done” are very much more important than broad general notions about the laws of physics.

C. An enormous arrogance in thinking that if certain things were true or certain technologies were real, these all-wise pseudo-scientists would know about them. They don’t, so the notions must not be true. None of this is to say that there hasn’t been a lot of pro-UFO garbage published as well. But Ufologists tend to be critical of their own kind. The pseudo-scientific anti-Ufologists never seem to want to critique another debunker no matter how false the claims. They repeat the claims rather than pointing out the fallacies.


Mike Stirner
Offline
Joined: Jul 25 2009

Fidel do you watch coast to coast?

 

Anyway all will be known on december 21 12 and i'm not joking either, I take the mayan prophesies as well as terrence mckenna's modern update of the iching-timewave zero-very seriously.

 

At some point modern states along with law and order will be rubble and  a post civilized hominid will be able to walk into area 51 and get the final answers or interesting questions


Fidel
Offline
Joined: Apr 29 2004

Ah! The ol' December 21st, 2012 schtick. I AM aware of that important date for sure. I've read a little about it, and I'm not so sure now that the Mayan prophets have actually predicted an end of the world scenario. They seemed to be concerned about the white people and mankind in general being faced with two different paths of human development at some point in the present time. Duality seems to be a recurring theme for a number of old cultures around the world. I don't know,. Interesting for sure.

Art Bell Hosted Russell Targ(audio only) recently on Coast to Coast AM. Targ is another one who's "out there" so to speak.


Kaspar Hauser
Offline
Joined: Aug 15 2004

deleted


Fidel
Offline
Joined: Apr 29 2004

Ah! More of the why?

ufo ALIEN abduction interview with Betty Hill(youtube) 1961

Taken at face value, the evidence for this abduction is remarkable. There is eye witness testimony. There is corroborating RADAR evidence from the US Military. And Carl Sagan's former class mate, Canadian Stanton Friedman, says that the star map created by Betty and Barney Hill is remarkable evidence in itself. Betty says it was not fantasy or illusion. She said it happened.

As far as I can tell,  the two people in this famous story fully believed they were telling the truth.

The Zeta Reticuli Incident

Quote:
Pattern Recognition & Zeta Reticuli

by Carl Sagan & Steven Soter

"The Zeta Reticuli Incident" is very provocative. It claims that a map, allegedly shown on board a landed extraterrestrial spacecraft to Betty Hill in 1961, later drawn by her from memory and published in 1966, corresponds well to similar maps of the closest stars resembling the sun based on stellar positions in the 1969 Gliese Catalog of Nearby Stars. The comparison maps were made by Marjorie Fish using a three dimensional physical model and later by a group of Ohio State University students using a presumably more accurate (i.e., less subjective) computer generated projection. The argument rests on how well the maps agree and on the statistical significance of the comparison. ...


Fidel
Offline
Joined: Apr 29 2004

Recent announcements from scientific community boost search for extraterrestrial life

Quote:
Findings published in the December 1st advanced online publication of Nature show that astronomers are now estimating there to be three times the number of stars in the universe as previously thought. The new estimate of approximately 300,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (300 sextillion) stars is based on the observation of red dwarf stars, which have previously been difficult to detect because of their faint signatures. ...  “There are possibly trillions of Earths orbiting these stars.” The discovered red dwarf stars are typically more than 10 billion years old, and according to van Dokkum, have existed long enough for complex life to evolve.

Possibly trillions. The universe is bigger than we knew.


Lard Tunderin Jeezus
Online
Joined: Aug 27 2001

Interesting, but in relation to the topic, these extra stars don't really add into the numbers in close proximity to Earth.


remind
Offline
Joined: Jun 25 2004

No one listened to the NASA press release Thursday am?


Cueball
Offline
Joined: Dec 23 2003
Fidel
Offline
Joined: Apr 29 2004

Lard Tunderin Jeezus wrote:

Interesting, but in relation to the topic, these extra stars don't really add into the numbers in close proximity to Earth.

I think it's too early to tell. SETI has been searching for 50 years and only really advanced the state of telescope technology in recent years.

One of the parameters of the Drake equation is rate of star formation in the galaxy and the percentage of stars thought to have planets. Based on previous calculations, it was expected that they would find ET within 25 years. I think...?

I think they may have found something already and are keeping mum about it. Just my wild speculation. Keep in mind that they've only just now discovered life forms on this planet that are different from our own.

Unreleased Wikileaks cables refer to UFOs


Lard Tunderin Jeezus
Online
Joined: Aug 27 2001

First 'earth-like' planet discovered, with liquid water, in the 'Goldilocks' zone (not too hot, not too cold).


autoworker
Offline
Joined: Dec 21 2008

Lard Tunderin Jeezus wrote:

First 'earth-like' planet discovered, with liquid water, in the 'Goldilocks' zone (not too hot, not too cold).

Knowing that there may be life on Gliese 581g will certainly help me sleep sounder. Thank you LTJ.  BTW: I still think The Great Gazoo, at the top of the thread, looks like Steven Harper..maybe we can send him there? Perhaps he's really an alien?!


Fidel
Offline
Joined: Apr 29 2004

Alien Rock: The Rock 'n' Roll Extraterrestrial Connection

Haven't read it, but Luckman was on Coast to Coast am. Apparently Luckman is a long time UFO enthusiast and director of the New York Center for Extraterrestrial Research and founder of the Cosmic Majority, an organization that seeks to advance the views of the majority of people living on planet Earth who believe in UFOs. He's very into the late Zecharia Sitchin's writings on ancient astronaut-Earth connection, which I am not very high on myself. Then again who am I to say either way? Apparently the royal family are UFO enthusiasts including Prince William. Apparently Willy, an RAF pilot himself, was seen carrying a copy of Luckman's Alien Rock.

Will Wikileaks reveal anything about UFOs? Assange says there are cables that mention UFOs. I think gradual disclosure has been happening for some time.


al-Qa'bong
Offline
Joined: Feb 27 2003

Fidel
Offline
Joined: Apr 29 2004

'Cosmic masters' call for Govt investigation into UFOs

 

The New Zealand Herald wrote:

Alien worshippers are urging the Government to admit extraterrestrial life is out there after the release of thousands of secret files on UFO sightings.

The Defence Force released thousands of documents detailing alleged UFO sightings between 1952 and 2009 on Wednesday.

 

NZ Defence Force releases records concerning the world wide "swamp gas" and even "ball lightning" phenomenon.


Fidel
Offline
Joined: Apr 29 2004

Jingles wrote:
With these three things, we can now ask:

1. If aliens have the ability to travel vast distances, then why only land on a restricted US military base...

Okay, they didn't land at a restricted military base - they crashed. As the story goes, U.S. Military officials reported, and in this order, 

1. that they'd recovered a crashed saucer at Roswell

2. then the crashed disc wasn't a disc but a project Mogul balloon. Balloons, crashed saucers, whatever. It's really easy for US Air Force officers to confuse weather balloons with crashed UFOs. Happens all the time.

3. and then many years later the balloon story was updated with crash test dummies to explain away the fact that witnesses reported seeing bodies, and one of which was alive after the crash in 1947. But the US Military was not using crash test dummies in 1947 according to various officials. They don't launch crash test dummies with weather balloons very much today, either.

So, who was telling the truth about Roswell? in your opinion, would the accounts of eye witnesses to the event be less credible than U.S. Military reports that changed over the years?

Here is a person who says he knew the pilot who shot down a UFO at Roswell in 1947.

Jingles wrote:
What possible technological advantage has a crashed interstellar spacecraft provide the US that allows them to maintain such a stranglehold on the planet; Tang or Velcro?


I don't know the answer to that. I think we have to consider the country's politics and past record for cover-ups.

The U.S.A. is a militarized country since 1947 and signing of the National Security Act. The Republic was overthrown with the creation of the NSA and CIA, black budget operations and characterized by an overall lack of accountability and transparency to the American public in general. And they have used fear as a propaganda tool to control American citizens throughout the cold war. Even today Americans live in fear of their government. Americans will tell you that they are lied to all the time by their Government.

What if you are one of a number of high-ranking military generals who basically operate below the radar of Congress, and perhaps one of the mythical "Majestic 12" group alleged to have formed in 1947? Youre thinking along the lines of defense and all things military. The cold war is basically on at that point, and you are ultra-paranoid like the rest of the hawks.

And then you have this "die Glock" silver bullet technology dropped in your lap. It's advanced technology by not just a few decades but perhaps centuries, thousands, or even millions of years more advanced than 1947 technology. What use is it to you at that point in time?

You probably don't want it falling in the hands of the enemy, and in those days it was the Russians and Chinese and communists in general. It's kept under wraps for decades and protected by even more secrecy that the Corona spy satellite, which was well kept secret for over 30 years. There are communist spies everywhere in and out of U.S. Government. That the U.S. military is extremely secretive goes without saying with its 38 levels of security clearance.


Fidel
Offline
Joined: Apr 29 2004

10 Famous People Who Believe

Quote:
9. Dr. Josef Allen Hynek
Josef Hynek, a respected astronomer, was initially a UFO skeptic. The U.S. Air Force appointed him science consultant to the U.S. Air Force's Project Blue Book to be their official UFO debunker. After serving in that capacity from 1952 to 1969 and personally investigating hundreds of phenomena for which he could find no scientific explanation, Hynek's skepticism eroded. In a Nov. 27, 1978, speech before a U.N. committee Hynek stated, "It is my considered opinion, as a scientist who has devoted many years to its study, that the UFO phenomenon is real and not the creation of disturbed minds." Hynek's greatest contribution is the Center for UFO Studies that he established and which is now a major scientific repository for UFO reports.


Slumberjack
Offline
Joined: Aug 8 2005

I place alien visitations to Earth in the same category as stories and arguments relating to the creation of life and the universe from the design of a supernatural omnipotent being.


Fidel
Offline
Joined: Apr 29 2004

Slumberjack wrote:

I place alien visitations to Earth in the same category as stories and arguments relating to the creation of life and the universe from the design of a supernatural omnipotent being.

 

Well, sure, because there is a direct connection between shamans and the first religionists of the distant past and what the living have reported witnessing today. It goes without saying.

I do not believe in UFOs.

I do not disbelieve in UFOs.

Like you, SJ, I believe in UFO stories. And some of these stories today are told by some incredibly credible people from the low to higher echelons of society. And like those stories handed down through the ages from stone age people through the Orient and India, and North American aboriginals, the modern day equivalents read like the best science fiction has to offer. Chicken and egg? Like the X-files, there is still no hard physical proof, or no smoking gun in our faces proof positive of visitations from another world. But there is plenty of evidence apparently. I would like to believe, yes I would. Because if true, it would have to be the story of the millenium.

 


Slumberjack
Offline
Joined: Aug 8 2005

There's no evidence that I'm aware of.


Fidel
Offline
Joined: Apr 29 2004

Oh you're definitely wrong about that. It may be circumstantial evidence, but there is: eye witness evidence - physical photographs dating back to the 19th century before there was photoshop and which are not explained away by the experts - there are paintings depicting unknown objects in the sky dating back centuries - there is video taped evidence - and last but not least there is physical radar evidence corroborating certain eye witness testimonials. 

People have been executed by the state based on circumstantial evidence and court cases in general won on the circumstantial for lack of evidence supporting the contrary. These people are entirely serious about their claims, SJ.

If you've never been to Tokyo or Kuala Lumpur, or the South Pole, then how do you know they are real places?


Slumberjack
Offline
Joined: Aug 8 2005

It's fantastic...Fidel.  There's a great claim being made with an impact far and wide, including on our existence and our entire knowledge.  Greater claims require a greater body of proof.  This is the reason we shouldn't have faith for very long in any system that executes people on circumstantial evidence.  We don't keep 'a little' faith with this practice...we completely reject it and say that such a system needs replacing.  With UFO theories, alien visitations and what not, before long we should similarly find ourselves without faith, and in desperate need to change the conversation to something else, simply as a result of matching the important consequences being discussed against the quality, or absurdity as it were, of the evidence.


Fidel
Offline
Joined: Apr 29 2004

I couldn't have written a better reply. 

Yes,  accountability and transparency in government is what's needed here. We know this is true by observing the corrupt financial system and their muscle, NATO, and how they operate above international law. 

I don't know about you, but I tend to want to believe the many ordinary people and their evidence over that of the denialism of the most secretive governments in history and their vicious toadies in Canada, U.K., France etc. European Parliaments did acknowledge and condemn the cold war era Gladio terrorism by 1991 while the ringleader nation denied, denied, and denied some more. Yes they reacted to it.

And the U.S. Military dictatorship has told a number of lies, and each incompatible with the official lies before it about UFOs since 1947, which was also the same year that the U.S. republic was overthrown  and replaced with a militarized government with signing of the National Security Act and creation of the CIA and NSA. And our governments went on to embrace war criminals and welcomed them in to the English-speaking countries and West Germany where Himmler's SS was reconstructed to spy on our WW II allies, the Soviets for decades. 

You've identified the problem, S.J. It is an overall lack of transparancy and accountability to the public in general since at least WW II. IOWs, our democracy is a sham. What we have is an illusion of democracy and not the real McCoy by a long shot. And I want to thank you for underscoring that basic truth for us. The truth isn't out there - it's right here in this thread.

The glasnost is half full.


Slumberjack
Offline
Joined: Aug 8 2005

Fidel wrote:
I don't know about you, but I tend to want to believe the many ordinary people and their evidence.... 

But I tend to disregard out of hand flying saucers, alien abductions and accounts of strange looking things with conical heads.  And it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who indicates by exclusion to having no sense of the marketing gimmicks at work, that detecting the presence of an industry with its many spin offs requires a little more original imagination perhaps?


Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Login or register to post comments