babble is rabble.ca's discussion board but it's much more than that: it's an online community for folks who just won't shut up. It's a place to tell each other — and the world — what's up with our work and campaigns.
While we're on about Conservative MPs that deserve to be defeated, how about Ray Boughen in Palliser? Admittedly he hasn't done anything to distinguish himself, but that's mostly because he hasn't really donemuch at all. For example, he is at or near the bottom of the list for interventions in Parliament, so even as a trained seat for the HarperCons he still underperforms.
What about Bramalea-Gore-Malton, where the incumbent Liberal came third, and the Tory beat the New Democrat by less than 500 votes? This type of situation repeated all through Ontario (esp SW Ontario).
What about Bramalea-Gore-Malton, where the incumbent Liberal came third, and the Tory beat the New Democrat by less than 500 votes? This type of situation repeated all through Ontario (esp SW Ontario).
Where?
Not by 500 votes...I should have been more clear. What I was trying to get at was that the NDP had as many 1st and 2nd place finishes throughout Ontario as did the Liberals. Two things worked in the Tories' favour - 1) Unlike in Québec, the Orange Crush did not have as much time to ripen, leading to the NDP and Liberals splitting the opposition votes down the middle instead of decisively in the NDP's favour 2) The Tories' line to Liberals to vote strategically for them was quite effective.
I had meant this to be a discussion on who we NEED to defeat because of their bigoted views - not who CAN we defeat (as there are numerous other discussions that have focused on that).
Who, based on their views, should be targeted to defeat?
I had meant this to be a discussion on who we NEED to defeat because of their bigoted views - not who CAN we defeat (as there are numerous other discussions that have focused on that).
Who, based on their views, should be targeted to defeat?
Anders
Toews
Poilievre (just because he is soooo obnoxious!!!)
That's my top 3.
Edited to add:
Plus any MP that is too chicken-shit to come out of the closet, while telling the rest of us that "it gets better".
Oh...and Kevin Lamoureux, whose first vote in the House was AGAINST a woman's right to choose!
While we're on about Conservative MPs that deserve to be defeated, how about Ray Boughen in Palliser? Admittedly he hasn't done anything to distinguish himself, but that's mostly because he hasn't really donemuch at all. For example, he is at or near the bottom of the list for interventions in Parliament, so even as a trained seat for the HarperCons he still underperforms.
Of course, there's no guarantee that Boughen'll run again, given that he's going to be pushing 80 come the next election,
The problem with such an exercise is that no matter where you start from with this gang...ten from the top down starting with Harper, ten from the bottom of the pile and up, or ten selected at random, all your work is still ahead with the ones who remain.
He was my old boss when he was on the library board in Ottawa, totally arrogant guy. He also jumped from being a sleazy liberal to being a sleazy conservative without batting an eyelash when the fortunes of the liberals changed.
We need to defeat Wai Young (Conservative, Vancouver South), who bumped Ujjal Dosanjh out of the riding. Say what you want about Liberals and turncoats, but I thought Dosanjh was a really good MP. He's not returning to politics so now there is an opportunity for the NDP to move in without anyone appealing to vote "strategically" for the incumbent. Let's shut the Conservatives out of Vancouver again.
Unfortunately, as Robert Fife said on CTV on the night of the election, the increase in the NDP vote in that riding split the vote and allowed the Conservatives to take it.
Hopefully the Liberal vote will come back in the next election and we will be able to take it back.
Regardless of who said it, the numbers don't bear out the "NDP vote split" explanation for Vancouver South 2011.
A cursory overview of the numbers would suggest that most Conservative votes came from people who didn't go to the polls at all in 2008. The Liberals kept most of theirs but failed to get out the vote. The Green vote collapsed by almost as many votes as the NDP gained. Certainly the NDP gains did not suggest any significant vote shift away from the Liberals - this was all about the Conservatives mobilizing voters.
In 2004 the NDP nearly tied the Conservative candidate for 2nd place. It's not unthinkable that this riding could be an NDP target with no incumbent Liberal effect left.
While the politics of a number of those folks are very very right-wing, I still would not advocate wasting resources trying to defeat the ones in non-winnable seats. There are probably 60 other seats we should be looking at first.
While - from what I've heard - Rod Bruinooge in awash in religious right lunacy, getting back Elmwood-Transcona would probably be a better goal for the Federal NDP when it comes to Winnipeg. It's still very ironic how, what's an Orange Fortress Provincially, has so many Conservative MPs Federally.
In 2004 the NDP nearly tied the Conservative candidate for 2nd place. It's not unthinkable that this riding could be an NDP target with no incumbent Liberal effect left.
Right, I almost forgot about the boundary change...
Of course a big factor for the NDP in any BC riding will be, if Dix indeed becomes premier, can he keep the public happy long enough to avoid spoiling NDP ridings in the next federal election? :P
After all, the only time in decades that a stronghold like Vancouver East was snapped up from the NDP was in 1993, two years into a BCNDP government. Mind you that was also the year after the Charlottetown Accord.
Another name thus far missing in this thread: David "Promise Keepers" Sweet. (Even if his seat's likely to be redrawn in his favour, away from Westdale or even Dundas, etc)
I'd start with five Conservative MPs from Saskatchewan who I hope would not be in the House if we had a fair voting system. Let's say Brad Trost (Saskatoon-Humboldt), Maurice Vellacott (Saskatoon-Wanuskewin), Tom Lukiwski (Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre), Ray Boughen (Palliser), and Randy Hoback (Prince Albert).
Then eight from Alberta. Let's say Rob Anders (Calgary West), Jason Kenney (Calgary Southeast), Peter Goldring (Edmonton East), Jim Hillyer (Lethbridge), Kevin Sorenson (Crowfoot), Mike Lake (Edmonton--Mill Woods--Beaumont), Chris Warkentin (Peace River), and Rob Merrifield (Yellowhead).
Then pick your own: 11 from the GTA, five from Eastern Ontario, five from West Central Ontario, four from southwestern Ontario, two from the Lower Mainland, two from the rest of BC, three from Manitoba, and three from New Brunswick.
laine lowe wrote:
Perhaps it would be easier to identify the top ten Conservatives that are the least repugnant or useless or both.
That's easy: the ten least repugnant women. There are so few women in the Conservative caucus, that I'd hate to wish most of them out of parliament.
I find Del Mastro repulsive and the worst kind of politician. In the worst sense of the worst, he is offensive and biggoted. For a man who is against abortions, his support for the death penalty illudes me.
That's easy: the ten least repugnant women. There are so few women in the Conservative caucus, that I'd hate to wish most of them out of parliament.
Hmm... tough job.
Diane Ablonczy Calgary—Nose Hill Eve Adams Mississauga—Brampton South Leona Aglukkaq Conservative Nunavut Stella Ambler Conservative Mississauga South Rona Ambrose Conservative Edmonton—Spruce Grove Joyce Bateman Conservative Winnipeg South Centre Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar Lois Brown Conservative Newmarket—Aurora Pat Davidson Conservative Sarnia—Lambton Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative Delta—Richmond East Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke Shelly Glover Conservative Saint Boniface Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells Candice Hoeppner Conservative Portage—Lisgar Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre Kellie Leitch Conservative Simcoe—Grey Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo Bev Oda Conservative Durham Tilly O'Neill-Gordon Conservative Miramichi Lisa Raitt Conservative Halton Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Centre-North Gail Shea Conservative Egmont Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul Susan Truppe Conservative London North Centre Alice Wong Conservative Richmond Lynne Yelich Conservative Blackstrap Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South
I would say most who are in cabinet or have been are fair game. Perhaps Diane Ablonczy gets spared for independent thought because she supported funding for Toronto Pride before being quietly shuffled away. I can't think off the top of my head on who else has enough redeeming characteristics to be off the focus list.
I would say most who are in cabinet or have been are fair game. Perhaps Diane Ablonczy gets spared for independent thought because she supported funding for Toronto Pride before being quietly shuffled away. I can't think off the top of my head on who else has enough redeeming characteristics to be off the focus list.
Rempel and Leitch both seem to have a "Conservative as winning option" moderate-ish cast to them.
Then eight from Alberta. Let's say Rob Anders (Calgary West), Jason Kenney (Calgary Southeast), Peter Goldring (Edmonton East), Jim Hillyer (Lethbridge), Kevin Sorenson (Crowfoot), Mike Lake (Edmonton--Mill Woods--Beaumont), Chris Warkentin (Peace River), and Rob Merrifield (Yellowhead).
Yeah, principle is principle, but going from a Jason Kenney target to a Kevin Sorenson target is like, well, gong from wanting a pony to wanting a unicorn as a Christmas gift.
OTOH of rural Alberta MPs, I suspect the one who'd most likely merit a token free Babble pass is Ted Menzies (ex-PC, Joe Clark-endorsed, etc)
I would say most who are in cabinet or have been are fair game. Perhaps Diane Ablonczy gets spared for independent thought because she supported funding for Toronto Pride before being quietly shuffled away. I can't think off the top of my head on who else has enough redeeming characteristics to be off the focus list.
Rempel and Leitch both seem to have a "Conservative as winning option" moderate-ish cast to them.
Both dyed-in-the-wool backroom Conservatives before running. I'd cut some slack to Pat Davidson for speaking out against the overseas sale of asbestos, but I still think her seat of Sarnia should be one of our targets.
He [MP David Sweet] seems benign enough. Good start adma.
I respectfully disagree that he is "benign." He is a very active and virulent anti-abortion activist (too bad he does not show such touching concern for the children who are already here -- you know, like poor kids, foster children, kids in Attawapiskat --- seems they only merit action while in utero).
Sweet is also aggressively anti-feminist and believes women have no place in leadership. And on the lazy side, except for attending prayer breakfasts with the PM, it's hard to pin down anything he has done for the riding.
asma, I'm interested in what you say about the riding boundary proposed changes. There could be room for improvement here. Provincially, the PC candidate sank like a stone even in my very conservative part of the riding.
Peterborough is the Ontario bellwether riding. If the NDP is going to win Ontario, they will win that seat, I expect.
Yeah really! He is easily the most odious creature that has set foot in the House in generations!!!
While we're on about Conservative MPs that deserve to be defeated, how about Ray Boughen in Palliser? Admittedly he hasn't done anything to distinguish himself, but that's mostly because he hasn't really donemuch at all. For example, he is at or near the bottom of the list for interventions in Parliament, so even as a trained seat for the HarperCons he still underperforms.
Where?
http://www.punditsguide.ca/parties/?party=4&province=6&elec_event=26&qry=2
Ssshh (you'll wake him)
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2011/11/25/rob-anders-sleeping-video_n_1113337.html
Not by 500 votes...I should have been more clear. What I was trying to get at was that the NDP had as many 1st and 2nd place finishes throughout Ontario as did the Liberals. Two things worked in the Tories' favour - 1) Unlike in Québec, the Orange Crush did not have as much time to ripen, leading to the NDP and Liberals splitting the opposition votes down the middle instead of decisively in the NDP's favour 2) The Tories' line to Liberals to vote strategically for them was quite effective.
I had meant this to be a discussion on who we NEED to defeat because of their bigoted views - not who CAN we defeat (as there are numerous other discussions that have focused on that).
Who, based on their views, should be targeted to defeat?
I find Dean DelMasturbate of Peterborough to be one of the Tories with the most repulsive views.
Anders
Toews
Poilievre (just because he is soooo obnoxious!!!)
That's my top 3.
Edited to add:
Plus any MP that is too chicken-shit to come out of the closet, while telling the rest of us that "it gets better".
Oh...and Kevin Lamoureux, whose first vote in the House was AGAINST a woman's right to choose!
Of course, there's no guarantee that Boughen'll run again, given that he's going to be pushing 80 come the next election,
The problem with such an exercise is that no matter where you start from with this gang...ten from the top down starting with Harper, ten from the bottom of the pile and up, or ten selected at random, all your work is still ahead with the ones who remain.
Heh, why Royal Galipeau?
He was my old boss when he was on the library board in Ottawa, totally arrogant guy. He also jumped from being a sleazy liberal to being a sleazy conservative without batting an eyelash when the fortunes of the liberals changed.
Regardless of who said it, the numbers don't bear out the "NDP vote split" explanation for Vancouver South 2011.
Conservative: 16090 -> 19504 (+3414)
Liberal: 16110 -> 15604 (-506)
NDP: 7376 -> 8552 (+1176)
Green: 2065 -> 1151 (-914)
M-L: 211 -> 222 (+11)
Total valid votes: 41852 -> 45033 (+3181)
A cursory overview of the numbers would suggest that most Conservative votes came from people who didn't go to the polls at all in 2008. The Liberals kept most of theirs but failed to get out the vote. The Green vote collapsed by almost as many votes as the NDP gained. Certainly the NDP gains did not suggest any significant vote shift away from the Liberals - this was all about the Conservatives mobilizing voters.
In 2004 the NDP nearly tied the Conservative candidate for 2nd place. It's not unthinkable that this riding could be an NDP target with no incumbent Liberal effect left.
While - from what I've heard - Rod Bruinooge in awash in religious right lunacy, getting back Elmwood-Transcona would probably be a better goal for the Federal NDP when it comes to Winnipeg. It's still very ironic how, what's an Orange Fortress Provincially, has so many Conservative MPs Federally.
*And*, with a favourable redraw.
Right, I almost forgot about the boundary change...
Of course a big factor for the NDP in any BC riding will be, if Dix indeed becomes premier, can he keep the public happy long enough to avoid spoiling NDP ridings in the next federal election? :P
After all, the only time in decades that a stronghold like Vancouver East was snapped up from the NDP was in 1993, two years into a BCNDP government. Mind you that was also the year after the Charlottetown Accord.
Another name thus far missing in this thread: David "Promise Keepers" Sweet. (Even if his seat's likely to be redrawn in his favour, away from Westdale or even Dundas, etc)
Peter Goldring and Deepak Obhrai: I don't know if they get more sleep at home or in the House of Commons.
Jim Hillyer. His unexcused absences make Vegas girl seem like a saint.
Perhaps it would be easier to identify the top ten Conservatives that are the least repugnant or useless or both.
Mike Chong?
He seems benign enough. Good start adma.
ETA: Joyce Bateman hasn't done anything offensive so far.
James Moore voted in favour of same sex marriage. Royal Galipeau has a rep as more of a Red Tory.
I'd start with five Conservative MPs from Saskatchewan who I hope would not be in the House if we had a fair voting system. Let's say Brad Trost (Saskatoon-Humboldt), Maurice Vellacott (Saskatoon-Wanuskewin), Tom Lukiwski (Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre), Ray Boughen (Palliser), and Randy Hoback (Prince Albert).
Then eight from Alberta. Let's say Rob Anders (Calgary West), Jason Kenney (Calgary Southeast), Peter Goldring (Edmonton East), Jim Hillyer (Lethbridge), Kevin Sorenson (Crowfoot), Mike Lake (Edmonton--Mill Woods--Beaumont), Chris Warkentin (Peace River), and Rob Merrifield (Yellowhead).
Then pick your own: 11 from the GTA, five from Eastern Ontario, five from West Central Ontario, four from southwestern Ontario, two from the Lower Mainland, two from the rest of BC, three from Manitoba, and three from New Brunswick.
That's easy: the ten least repugnant women. There are so few women in the Conservative caucus, that I'd hate to wish most of them out of parliament.
Which of our Québec MPs (who benefitted as much from FPTP) would you get rid of? :P
PS: Don't answer that: it was a rhetorical question!
I find Del Mastro repulsive and the worst kind of politician. In the worst sense of the worst, he is offensive and biggoted. For a man who is against abortions, his support for the death penalty illudes me.
Hmm... tough job.
Diane Ablonczy Calgary—Nose Hill
Eve Adams Mississauga—Brampton South
Leona Aglukkaq Conservative Nunavut
Stella Ambler Conservative Mississauga South
Rona Ambrose Conservative Edmonton—Spruce Grove
Joyce Bateman Conservative Winnipeg South Centre
Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar
Lois Brown Conservative Newmarket—Aurora
Pat Davidson Conservative Sarnia—Lambton
Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative Delta—Richmond East
Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke
Shelly Glover Conservative Saint Boniface
Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells
Candice Hoeppner Conservative Portage—Lisgar
Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre
Kellie Leitch Conservative Simcoe—Grey
Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo
Bev Oda Conservative Durham
Tilly O'Neill-Gordon Conservative Miramichi
Lisa Raitt Conservative Halton
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Centre-North
Gail Shea Conservative Egmont
Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul
Susan Truppe Conservative London North Centre
Alice Wong Conservative Richmond
Lynne Yelich Conservative Blackstrap
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South
I would say most who are in cabinet or have been are fair game. Perhaps Diane Ablonczy gets spared for independent thought because she supported funding for Toronto Pride before being quietly shuffled away. I can't think off the top of my head on who else has enough redeeming characteristics to be off the focus list.
Rempel and Leitch both seem to have a "Conservative as winning option" moderate-ish cast to them.
Yeah, principle is principle, but going from a Jason Kenney target to a Kevin Sorenson target is like, well, gong from wanting a pony to wanting a unicorn as a Christmas gift.
OTOH of rural Alberta MPs, I suspect the one who'd most likely merit a token free Babble pass is Ted Menzies (ex-PC, Joe Clark-endorsed, etc)
Both dyed-in-the-wool backroom Conservatives before running. I'd cut some slack to Pat Davidson for speaking out against the overseas sale of asbestos, but I still think her seat of Sarnia should be one of our targets.
I respectfully disagree that he is "benign." He is a very active and virulent anti-abortion activist (too bad he does not show such touching concern for the children who are already here -- you know, like poor kids, foster children, kids in Attawapiskat --- seems they only merit action while in utero).
Sweet is also aggressively anti-feminist and believes women have no place in leadership. And on the lazy side, except for attending prayer breakfasts with the PM, it's hard to pin down anything he has done for the riding.
asma, I'm interested in what you say about the riding boundary proposed changes. There could be room for improvement here. Provincially, the PC candidate sank like a stone even in my very conservative part of the riding.