babble is rabble.ca's discussion board but it's much more than that: it's an online community for folks who just won't shut up. It's a place to tell each other — and the world — what's up with our work and campaigns.
Support rabble | Advertise with us | Contact our staff | About rabble | Log-in or Register for a new account | Corrections | Privacy policy | Newsfeeds | Mailing lists
rabble: Features | Columnists | In Cahoots | Blogs | Books | Photos | What's Up | Polls
babble: Forum Topics | Active Topics
The rpn: About the RPN | Become a podcaster
rabbleTV: Program Guide | Features | Indie Inside | Best of the net
Copyright © 2001-2013 the authors
Syndicate
Compare and contrast, though, with the polarization available to them with the other candidates. Maysie, thanks for the reminder.
If Romeo doesn't win, I think he'd make a great Deputy Leader. I'd actually like to see two Deputy Leaders again - a team of Saganash and Ashton would be awesome if neither wins the leadership.
I would qualify that a bit. Those Conservatives were heading for a comfortable majority government, if you believed the polls. What seemed to stall them and then make them slide right out of forming government was the overt racist nature of their attacks of the Liberal hiring proposal. So I don't know that it is a given that they were 'sucessful'. It was still ugly and I saw up front and personal how some people reacted to the racist tone of that campaign, including a guy at one meeting who looked like he was going to have an organsim clapping every time the Conservative candidate played that racist card in comments, but I am not sure successful is the right word.
On the broader question, many of the people you are talking about are not in the NDP universe anyway. Romeo's approach to politics and the kind of issues he is speaking about will appeal to a great many Canadians who have grown tired of the sword fighting that passes for political discourse in this country. Of course there is overt and hidden racism in Canada, but I believe even more Canadians could care less about a person's background if the person leading a party is talking about our values and building the Canada we know we could be. It isn't that they will stop being racist, but that other things will trump it.
Those two sentences are two entirely different things. The first one is what touches on the 'downsides' we are talking about.
I'm more than a bit rluctant to get into illustrating with examples how it works, but without going there bear these things in mind, all of which people know, but need to be taken together:
** racism is very very deep.
** and in many people- most- it 'operates' far from out in the open.
** our universe of voters is just as subject to that as other white people [and a lot of people of colour when it comes to First Nations].
Triggering a negative reaction in white people is all too easy- very often without the targets being aware in the slightest. Thay are not making a decision based on a concious assesment that includes the race of the person presented to them.
It would never be something like "Should this man be your Prime Minister?"
But a lot of the same people who would register a backlash on something like that against the perpetrators of the ad, would be unaware they are being negatively influenced by more subtle ads.
It works, and there is no basis for confidence that it would not work on voters in the NDP universe who would normally be receptive to Romeo's approach.
Considering how ugly racism is in Canada, I am surprised people are skeptical about this.
Compare and contrast, though, with the polarization available to Conservatives with the other candidates. And is Canada more racist than the U.S.?
But again, despite all that and because of that, there is every reason to have Romeo very prominent in the NDP.
Wearing down racism [if that is an appropriate term] is as subtle as is people deliberating using racism in non-overt ways.
Having Romeo in living rooms will help heal this country of the scars.
And following what BA says, people will like having their better selves catered to.
I'm not sure about 'more' [less] racist at all, as a concept.
But as far as the US and Canada go, they are more different in nature than they are more/less.
Racism in the US is very violenet, and very much on the surface. But the forms of it that can be played on without people knowing about it, I do not see one bit of difference with Canada.
And if anything, anti-aboriginal racism is uglier in canda than in the US.... although part of that MAY be more an effect of Candains being more likely to live close or close-ish to aboriginal communities.
This is making vey uneasy by the way. I'm not sure what to do about that, or exactly why.
My point: the U.S. elected someone that many thought was unelectable. He's president now.
My other point: I believe the other candidates are in fact *much easier* for the Conservatives to target with negative advertising.
Ken- Canada is still a deeply sexist society. Does that mean we should also be warning off electing a woman next?
All candidates have negatives and positives. All of them. I am not going to let what some little old lady from Summerside wants to call Romeo in her head, or even out loud dictate who I will support for leader. I am looking for a few things in my leadership choice, but my top two things are;
1. who best represents my values and the values of the party?
2. who is best able to be contrasted positively with Stephen Harper as offering a better way forward and can articulate it in a way that resonates in communities, big and small right across the country?
I am comfortable with all, but now one of the candidates, being able to answer that twofold test. But on balance I beleive Romeo Saganash is the best situated to contrast with Harper and to articulate values I believe are important for the future of this country. That's the way forward.
double post sorry
There's a difference. They never had that many seats in Quebec to begin with, and it was always a tough nut for them to crack. In Western Canada, they have pretty much maxed their seats, and have nowhere to go but down. Even if a racist campaign helps the Conservatives defend their seats, it certainly won't gain them any new ones, and I'm certain that an increase in turn-out of the Aboriginal vote will offset this. A slight or modest increase, and the 3 Saskatchewan seats I mentioned fall. A strong turn-out puts nearly every seat in Western Canada in play.
And you also glossed over the fact that I live in the region where this dynamic plays out particularly strongly.
I'm not warning off Romeos electability.
I think people are being sanguine about ehat would turn up.
My gut feeling is that concerns me in its own right- that it is not just about Romeo's electability.
And I'm not glossing over where you live A- maybe I'm just paranoid, but what needs to be looked at is not just the fact of racism and how 'much' there is. Its a question of how pervasive, the 'reach,' and how easily played on.
I'm certainly not contrasting Romeo to other candidates- there are criteria that matter too much for me that he just cannot meet, barring some different showing from them.
I haven't even considered what I think about the 'electability' question. To me Romeo is a rookie, and no amount of experience outside electoral politics can make up for that. So the electability question is kind of hypothetical to me; but my opinion is that if he could get as far as coming out front, racism 'just' would make him being the Leader complicated- not unelectable.
Ken, I haven't said anything comparing or contrasting Saganash to any of the other candidates. I am also well aware of how problematic racism is, especially where I live in Western Canada, but I feel as if you're talking to me as if I don't have any awareness of the situation at all.
There’s been something that has been bothering about this thread and the discussion. It is based on a sense of despair that nothing will ever change. That nothing can change. I don’t believe it. If I believed that nothing can ever be changed, even if it happens at a glacier pace, than I would never have joined the NDP, I would never have developed the progressive values I hold, I am not even sure I would ever venture outside my door.
I think back to my childhood where my mother waged a lonely battle, against not only her employer, but her union, for recognition of the equal value of her work. I think of my childhood friend and his father both being given the same nickname because they were black and expected to take it as a joke in both the workplace and the classroom. I think of the deep fear another friend had that others would find out he liked boys and then hugging him, both of us weeping for joy, moments after he married the love of his life. I think of these things and I have to believe things have become a little better, not great, not what I or any of us would want, but just ever so slightly better.
I live in hope. I refuse to give in to despair that we can’t change things. I know that sexism, racism and homophobia and more still all exist and that they are pernicious, strong and evil foes. But still I refuse to believe we can’t change. I refuse to believe that fighting for change isn’t worth it. I refuse to believe that the forces that would hold back sharing and celebrating our common humanity and our differences should be allowed to win because we have left the ice. I won’t do it. I can’t
Instead I will try to listen and learn from others and greet their experiences with an open heart. Instead I will try to raise my children to believe in a future that is better and to understand it is going to take work to get there. Instead I will try to live my life by my values, not my cultural baggage. Instead I will choose to believe that a hand raised in greeting is better than a hand raised in anger. Instead I will choose to believe that we can listen to the better angels of our nature. Instead I will choose to believe in love, hope and optimism.
It won’t be easy. There will be set backs along the way. It will take longer to get to where we want and hope to be than we will like. Sometimes victories will feel like defeats. But it is the only way to true and lasting change.
Call me naive and hopeless, but I refuse to give into a sense of despair and let it define the future I want for my party, for my country and in the end for my family, friends and neighbours. I believe we can make Canada better. And I believe Romeo Saganash is the candidate most capable of defeating Stephen Harper in 2015.
BA, to pick up on your point about living in hope, consider this:
Few people thought that the US would ever elect a black President within even our children's lifetimes. Yet we have all witnessed that. And it's true, old voting patterns and prejudices did rear their ugly head prior to that accomplishment. And white people overwhelmingly voted for McCain, with one important exception: those under 29 broke for Obama, and being relatively close to that age group, I can assure you that we don't care about skin colour. We've lived in several parts of the country and all over the world, we accept people's differences, and if you can appeal to us in the next election, our votes will be more than enough to take the NDP over the top.
Those 3 individuals are on my short list for consideration.
Bit of thread drift here, because I think the 'activist approach question' is moot as far as Romeo's campaign goes.
But on that general question digging into 'hard realities' does not equal despair, nor necessarily lead to dropping things because they are 'too hard'. And NOT digging into the hard realities has its costs too. Leaving it at only 'lets do this' means that you forgo the chance to be prepared for some obstacles, and it is hard on morale over the haul of 10 to 50 years of activism.
That said, thinking about it a bit, I cannot see that there is anything useful that can be done by Romeo's campaign around how people will deal with Romeo the obviously aboriginal person. And I say that knowing that Obama's campaign put a great deal of energy and thought and hard research into how to neutralize the effects of racism on his candidacy.... HOW to overcome the racism in those legions of white swing Dem/Rep voters who did ultimately vote for him. And they did that work all the way from early in his nomination campaign, through to election day.
Because as far as a campaign within the NDP goes, I think its pretty simple:
Countering the negative narrative that Romeo cannot win because he is aboriginal, is bound to be like trying to argue in rational discursive terms any other negative narrative that comes your way... you cannot win that way. And the attempt will just feed the narrative's effectiveness.
You go around negative narratives. Even blunting it is done largely or wholy through indirect means. In this case, narratives that have nothing to do with race and being aboriginal. [Which is a reason by the way that Romeo needs to be careful about how much and when he launches from his overcoming adversity narrative. It is a very good 'hook' and it is a lot of who Romeo is and what he has to say- but it is a double edged sword for him.]
This whole discussion may be a wandering and complicated way of expressing of what I thought as soon as I saw the thread title:
"This can't help Romeo."
Unless its a cathartic or reflective thing that even enthusiastic supporters need to work through for themselves.
Blunting the effects of racism on decisions of the universe of potential supporters looks in a general way something like this:
Understanding the operative racism in a general way does no good beyond helping you get at what you need. In a campaign you can do zero about the bigger picture of racism as it effects your candidate.
And besides, your target audience is people who "only" have the standard racist images and narratives mixed in with values that connect with your candidates appeal. You simply are not intereste in the people who would not vote for an Indian [and too few of them ever vote NDP to be worrying about them anyway].
So you sit down and 'unpack' all those racist images and narratives- make them as concrete as you can. Pictures and really basic concepts.
Then you set about looking for qualities in your candidate that are the opposite of those negative tropes. Build them up, and draw attention to them. It is a natural reaction for the candidate to feel like a lot of that is acting. Work with him on that. Work these alternative images and narratives into media and publicity.
Also take a look at what might be inadvertently playing into the negatives that you are working to blunt. The most obvious example of that is Romeo's story of overcoming adversity. Because the 'overcoming' part you want is pulling a caboose of Indians as victims that runs completely counter to the job description of Leader. So you think about how much and when and how Romeo brings out that part of his biography.
None of this requires in the least tarnishing the authenticity and sponataneity that is a big part of Romeo's appeal. For one thing, the senior campaign people are the ones that do the work, not Romeo. They work on it a lot, and present him with options.
I do hate this thread title, and was extremely ambivalent about posting at all. I find it somewhat offensive that we're announcing Romeo can't possibly win in the aboriginal issues and culture forum. What kind of message is that? Not a progressive one, at the very least. Certainly not an empowering one.
As a result, I think this will be my last comment here. Otherwise, what BA said. Beautifully.
I agree about the thread title - but we know it was posted in frustration by RP, and that it nonetheless addresses an issue which needs to be aired. I'm really encouraged by the direction of some of the comments here, and I'm grateful to you (writer) in particular for pointing us to some important information about Saganash's life and work.
All this to say, that I think the better course is to ask the mods to change the thread title to something like, "Romeo Saganash's leadership prospects" - if that's ok with you and others. I don't want to lose your voice or others' here, nor have to hunt around different threads while there's still something important to be said on this precise topic.
I understand RP's choice but agree that another thread title is in order. Upon request, I have made that change.
Ahem, Ken:
I still don't get the sense that anything I have said (or anyone else, for that matter) has registered with you.
Romeo Saganash on the Next Election
An example of how it's possible to communicate priorities and vision without putting others down ... in fact, while *raising others up*.
Edited to add: Thanks so much for the title change. It means a lot!
Thanks for this link, writer. The more I see him speak, the more convinced I am of his potential to win and change political discourse in this country.
I would love to see more public endorsements.