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Ford Desecration Pt IV - the march to Detroit continues

edmundoconnor
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Joined: Jul 7 2009

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edmundoconnor
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Joined: Jul 7 2009

Re: the talk about KWT - I don't think Kristyn's going anywhere other than councillor for a long, long time. She's made herself very visible on a number of issues, including (but not only) Pride, and if/when she reoffers in 2014, it won't even be close. She'll be posting Kyle Rae-like majorities, and it would take dynamite to lever her out. She might be willing to hunker down in her ward for a few terms, build up her reputation, and so forth, before she ventures on to other political office. She has a sure thing in Ward 27. Why risk it?

Shelley Carroll, on the other hand …


KenS
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Joined: Aug 6 2001

I havent been looking at this threads.

It was the cover that got my attention.

Is that 'march to Detroit' a commonly used phrase?

No one, nobody, can match Detroit. Not even get in its league.


Maysie
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Joined: Apr 21 2005

I agree KenS.

In other news....

Fees proposed for swimming, Riverdale Farm, library DVDs

Quote:

Right-leaning Toronto councillors want residents to start paying to swim in the city's outdoor pools, visit Riverdale Farm, and borrow feature films from the public library.

All three activities are currently free, and charging for library borrowing is illegal under Ontario law.

.....

Councillor Adam Vaughan argued that the proposals would hurt poor families. Del Grande, a staunch fiscal conservative, responded that council's left-leaning faction refuses to endorse necessary fiscal fixes because of an excessive focus on the city's "most vulnerable."

"If every argument always boils down to the most vulnerable - if every single argument, because everything you can do, the argument goes down to the most vulnerable - then we might as well not do absolutely anything," Del Grande said after a budget committee meeting.

The city already charges for indoor swimming.

.....

The provincial government would have to amend the Public Libraries Act before Toronto could impose fees on circulating materials. The library board, not council, would make the final decision.

Del Grande has a point.


edmundoconnor
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Joined: Jul 7 2009

KenS wrote:

I havent been looking at this threads.

It was the cover that got my attention.

Is that 'march to Detroit' a commonly used phrase?

No one, nobody, can match Detroit. Not even get in its league.

It's not a commonly-used phrase. I used it in the sense that Ford and company see Detroit as not what to avoid, but more of a goal.


edmundoconnor
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Joined: Jul 7 2009

Maysie wrote:

Del Grande has a point.

But not quite in the way he (probably) meant it.

Heavens to Betsy, if the government is going to start taking care of vulnerable people, then we might as well quit now! /sarcasm


Lachine Scot
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Joined: Jun 19 2010

Sadly, there are already user fees in lots of places in Canada. I'm glad people in Toronto think it's beyond the pale (as it should be), but some library users already have to pay to borrow DVDs or request books, to go to swimming pools ,etc.


M. Spector
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Maysie
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Joined: Apr 21 2005

RevolutionPlease
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http://www.thestar.com/news/cityhallpolitics/article/1106678--treat-audit-case-as-new-rob-ford-s-lawyers-argue?bn=1
Quote:
Ford, who initially said he welcomed an audit because he has “nothing to hide,” is appealing the decision. In documents filed Friday, his lawyers asked the court to treat the residents’ compliance audit request as an entirely new case rather than dealing with the matter as a regular appeal. In an appeal, Ford’s lawyers would have to convince the court that the compliance audit committee had made an error.

RevolutionPlease
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Joined: Oct 15 2007
Ya, sorry if I find fault in the media:
Quote:
For Councillor Adam Vaughan, a former police board member, there is a sensitive balancing act between personal privacy and possible conflicts. “What’s changed since the last time events made the headlines is that he has a designate on the police service board and he is involved directly with negotiations around the budget . . . the mayor can’t handle this the same way he handled it before. “He has a higher burden of responsibility here. If he’s involved with the police, either with calling them or having them called against him. . . he’s got to be much more clear how he’s exercising this authority and whether or not there is any potential conflict.” That probably would mean making a public declaration about what’s going on, he said. “That being said, clearly he is dealing with some significant private issues. . . he needs the time and the space to deal with that.”
How the fuck is this guy mayor? People of Toronto need to grow up.

Doug
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Joined: Apr 17 2001

TTC chair Karen Stinz experiences a sudden burst of rationality. It's also the only way to save the misguided Sheppard subway proposal which is not - surprise! - going to be built for free by the private sector.

 

Karen Stintz argues it makes more sense to put the LRT underground only along the most congested part of the route, in midtown, while building it on the surface in the spacious suburbs.


RevolutionPlease
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Joined: Oct 15 2007
Ford compares Councillors to Stalin: http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1120634--mayor-rob-ford-compares-riv...
Quote:
“I consider him a left-wing NDPer. I’m not surprised. It’s just like saying Adam Vaughan or (Gord) Perks or (Janet) Davis or (Paula) Fletcher is not voting with me,” he said. “These people are all two steps left of Joe Stalin. So I’m not discouraged by that and I don’t expect it. They don’t care about the taxpayers. But I know one person who does and that’s me.”

adma
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Joined: Jan 21 2006

Ah, Godwin goes dyslexic.


RevolutionPlease
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Joined: Oct 15 2007
adma wrote:

Ah, Godwin goes dyslexic.

Shouldn't go there, much as my first implication was to laugh...

RevolutionPlease
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Joined: Oct 15 2007
Ya, that's not cool. I'm laughing at dyslexia. That's not cool. How do we unprogram ourselves? One of the first things, is getting over my hate. I'm going to adopt a Conservative friend? Onward!

edmundoconnor
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Joined: Jul 7 2009

If Matlow is a "left-wing NDPer", does that make me the secretary of the Marxist-Leninist Party of Canada?


Lou Arab
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Sineed
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Joined: Dec 4 2005

Initial thoughts: ironic that Miller couldn't avoid a strike while Ford could. The workers knew they'd get locked out, and the public largely wasn't on their side.


M. Spector
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Joined: Feb 19 2005

When has the public ever been largely on the side of the civic workers?


Polunatic2
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Joined: Mar 12 2006

Can't offer too many thoughts until we hear about the details of the deal. Will the parties be able to dot the "i"s and cross the "t"s? Is it a deal the members will accept?

The City negotiators definitely played hardball with their "final offer" - threatening to stop remitting dues to the union among other cutbacks to the benefits and working conditions. It was a divisive offer pitting parts of the bargaining unit against each other while making the union itself pay a very high price (that I'm not even sure was "legal"). 


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

Why not legal, Pol2? Mind you, I don't know the Ontario legislation. Are you referring to the refusal to apply the Rand formula once the parties acquire the right to strike/lockout?

 


Polunatic2
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Joined: Mar 12 2006

No, I was referring to the idea that the employer would impose a new 4-year "agreement" which did not include application of the Rand formula at all. I was questioning whether an employer can opt out of dues check-off without the unions permission? 

In a strike or lock-out situation, there is an essential services regime. Those employees who are working are still paying dues I think. In my bargaining unit, dues rose to 30% for those who are working uring our two strikes against the Harris Cons. I don't know the mechanics of it but those dues were remitted by the employer when we were on strike. (The union also paid the employer 100% of the premiums for a bare-bones medical plan in both our strikes if I'm not mistaken but there was no requirement to do so). 


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

Well Pol2, the OLRA seems to say the following:

Quote:
47.  (1) Except in the construction industry and subject to section 52, where a trade union that is the bargaining agent for employees in a bargaining unit so requests, there shall be included in the collective agreement between the trade union and the employer of the employees a provision requiring the employer to deduct from the wages of each employee in the unit affected by the collective agreement, whether or not the employee is a member of the union, the amount of the regular union dues and to remit the amount to the trade union, forthwith.

That would mean that the Rand formula is a mandatory clause of the collective agreement - so, when the statutory freeze period is over (as it must be before there can be strikes or lockouts), there's no requirement to apply the Rand formula, even for those employees who remain at work.

Unless I'm wrong. But this has happened to one of our units before, under a different jurisdiction with a similar provision to Section 47(1).

 


Sineed
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Joined: Dec 4 2005

M. Spector wrote:

When has the public ever been largely on the side of the civic workers?

Generally speaking, support for unionized workers declines as fewer people enjoy the benefits of union membership. I'm referring specifically to CUPE's militant stance during the last round of contract negotiations, when they were dealing with Miller, who negotiated in good faith. 

The impression we have (talking about this in a bar with some friends), without knowing the details of the deal as yet, is that a deal was struck because Ford is willing to say "Fuck you!" to the workers. While a protracted strike was possible last time because Miller would put up with it, and continued to negotiate as garbage piled up in parks. not going to the province to get back to work legislation passed, for instance.


Polunatic2
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Joined: Mar 12 2006

Thanks for digging that up Unionist. It shows that their proposal to scrap the Rand formula in any new collective agreement was hot air. 


M. Spector
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Joined: Feb 19 2005

Sineed wrote:

The impression we have (talking about this in a bar with some friends), without knowing the details of the deal as yet, is that a deal was struck because Ford is willing to say "Fuck you!" to the workers. While a protracted strike was possible last time because Miller would put up with it, and continued to negotiate as garbage piled up in parks. not going to the province to get back to work legislation passed, for instance.

Are you saying you prefer Ford's approach to Miller's?


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

M. Spector wrote:

Sineed wrote:

The impression we have (talking about this in a bar with some friends), without knowing the details of the deal as yet, is that a deal was struck because Ford is willing to say "Fuck you!" to the workers. While a protracted strike was possible last time because Miller would put up with it, and continued to negotiate as garbage piled up in parks. not going to the province to get back to work legislation passed, for instance.

Are you saying you prefer Ford's approach to Miller's?

God, Spector, that was gratuitous.

 


M. Spector
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Joined: Feb 19 2005

I'm honestly trying to understand her point of comparison between Miller and Ford.


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

Now you've got me wondering and re-reading Sineed's post. I could have sworn she was praising Miller by saying he negotiated in good faith, and was willing to pay the heavy price of free collective bargaining. But maybe I'll let her comment herself rather than continuing with my Talmudic exegesis...


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