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NDP Leadership #102

NorthReport
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Joined: Jul 6 2008

;;


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NorthReport
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Joined: Jul 6 2008

Thank goodness the previous leadership thread is done - what a waste.

I'll re-post #99 by Brachina though as it does have some substance:

"Btw any buddy have research/science platform? I'd love Canada to be a world leader on stem cell research, more funding for developing pernnial crops, more for research on non addictive painkillers, and more money for studying the holographic theory of physics. Plus more science stuff."

 


NorthReport
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In the scheme of things this has to be huge seeing as holding onto our newly achieved base in Quebec while growing support the rest of the country is the only way we will ever form government. 

http://accidentaldeliberations.blogspot.com/2012/02/leadership-2012-roun...

- Thomas Mulcair earned a public endorsement from Charles Taylor - leaving roughly zero room for anybody to counter with a more distinguished party figure in Quebec.


socialdemocrati...
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Joined: Jan 10 2012

Here's arguably the top most concern for me.

Austerity.

I've read a few articles this week talking about Ontario, saying that in order to balance the provincial budget there would need to be cuts even bigger than those in the Mike Harris years.

Few pundits talks about taxes. And no one acknowledges the Dutch Disease, which is killing the Ontario economy. No one acknowledges the horrific labor conditions in countries like China that are literally impossible to compete with until they have some kind of labor movement of their own.

And I've been reading articles in the international press, which talk about a Greek economy that's been so horribly mismanaged that no one in the ideological spectrum would defend it. But the mismanagement is pinned on "socialism". And the Greek situation is often used as justification for the idea that we need to slash the social safety net in Portugal and Ireland. Even France.

And then the idea gets imported overseas. I see "progressive" American sites suggesting that the only way to be "fiscally sustainable" is to slash social security. In the burning house that is the Liberal Party of Canada, I hear some people saying that their path back to power is to take a "courageous" stand to "save" health care and pensions by slashing them. Only in the LPC would anyone consider that "courage".

In good faith, I don't think any of the candidates believe in austerity. Not even Brian Topp, who praised the Greek austerity to make a point that we don't want our social programs to be vulnerable to the whims of bankers. I take his point in good faith: we're not trying to emulate Greek austerity, we're trying to avoid getting into that position in the first place.

We're trying to avoid a huge deficit, for the sake of social democracy.

And then I look at the Conservative government. They're slashing taxes and growing the deficit, and using the deficit to justify the idea that "one day we're gonna have to slash spending". The Occupy movement has given me some hope that maybe we can restore taxes to where they were before, at a minimum. But Conservatives point out that tax revenues have been increasing despite tax cuts, proving that low taxes are good for everyone. Which ignores that tax revenues might be even higher without those cuts.

What worries me the most isn't even that the conservatives will cut spending. What worries me is that Conservative governments around the world have been happy to NOT slash spending. Just cut taxes, create a huge deficit, and hand the car keys to the supposedly more progressive opposition. Then those progressives will have to make the kinds of cuts that no Conservative could get away with.

I'm concerned that by 2015, even if we elect a New Democrat, we're going to inherit the worst economic situation in Canadian history. A record deficit with a shaky recovery. Maybe even a double dip recession, if not a world community on the verge of one. Our NDP leader is going to have the car keys, and the pundit class is going to overwhelm him or her with the steady drum beat of "austerity, austerity, austerity".

Even though I want to advance a progressive and social democratic agenda, I often find myself worrying about whether we'll even be able to withstand the attacks on the social safety net.

I'd really like to hear one of the candidates call out this problem for what it is.


NorthReport
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Joined: Jul 6 2008

If that is the case we should put it all back on on the backs of the no tax rich who supported this approach to government.

How much has been stolen from the poor and the middle class by these dead end policies?


NorthReport
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Joined: Jul 6 2008

Moi aussi.

Je suis confiant qu’on va gagner » - Thomas Mulcair

http://www.pointdevuemonttremblant.com/Actualites/Politique/2012-02-19/a...


NorthReport
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Brachina
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Joined: Feb 15 2012
socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

Here's arguably the top most concern for me.

Austerity.

I've read a few articles this week talking about Ontario, saying that in order to balance the provincial budget there would need to be cuts even bigger than those in the Mike Harris years.

Few pundits talks about taxes. And no one acknowledges the Dutch Disease, which is killing the Ontario economy. No one acknowledges the horrific labor conditions in countries like China that are literally impossible to compete with until they have some kind of labor movement of their own.

And I've been reading articles in the international press, which talk about a Greek economy that's been so horribly mismanaged that no one in the ideological spectrum would defend it. But the mismanagement is pinned on "socialism". And the Greek situation is often used as justification for the idea that we need to slash the social safety net in Portugal and Ireland. Even France.

And then the idea gets imported overseas. I see "progressive" American sites suggesting that the only way to be "fiscally sustainable" is to slash social security. In the burning house that is the Liberal Party of Canada, I hear some people saying that their path back to power is to take a "courageous" stand to "save" health care and pensions by slashing them. Only in the LPC would anyone consider that "courage".

In good faith, I don't think any of the candidates believe in austerity. Not even Brian Topp, who praised the Greek austerity to make a point that we don't want our social programs to be vulnerable to the whims of bankers. I take his point in good faith: we're not trying to emulate Greek austerity, we're trying to avoid getting into that position in the first place.

We're trying to avoid a huge deficit, for the sake of social democracy.

And then I look at the Conservative government. They're slashing taxes and growing the deficit, and using the deficit to justify the idea that "one day we're gonna have to slash spending". The Occupy movement has given me some hope that maybe we can restore taxes to where they were before, at a minimum. But Conservatives point out that tax revenues have been increasing despite tax cuts, proving that low taxes are good for everyone. Which ignores that tax revenues might be even higher without those cuts.

What worries me the most isn't even that the conservatives will cut spending. What worries me is that Conservative governments around the world have been happy to NOT slash spending. Just cut taxes, create a huge deficit, and hand the car keys to the supposedly more progressive opposition. Then those progressives will have to make the kinds of cuts that no Conservative could get away with.

I'm concerned that by 2015, even if we elect a New Democrat, we're going to inherit the worst economic situation in Canadian history. A record deficit with a shaky recovery. Maybe even a double dip recession, if not a world community on the verge of one. Our NDP leader is going to have the car keys, and the pundit class is going to overwhelm him or her with the steady drum beat of "austerity, austerity, austerity".

Even though I want to advance a progressive and social democratic agenda, I often find myself worrying about whether we'll even be able to withstand the attacks on the social safety net.

I'd really like to hear one of the candidates call out this problem for what it is.

I don't think Topp appluaded the Greek austerity so much as had pity for the Greek PM who you can tell loathed what he was doing and who clearly felt entrapped by the situation,, who was clearly out of his depth. Still I'm looking forward to an NDP government in 2015 federally and hopefully in Ontario too.

Brachina
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Joined: Feb 15 2012
To anwser Algomafalcon's question about when membership number will be released from the other thread, the answer is the 21 of feburary, so tuesday. Mulcair has indicated that the Quebec membership was around 10,000, although alwhile back I believe Topp suggested it was around 15,000. So I guess we'll see.

mark_alfred
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Joined: Jan 3 2004

A while back I expressed some reservations about the way Mulcair's child care promise was phrased in his Proposal to Advance Women's Equality.  Some suggested that I write my concerns to him, so I did on February 10.  I still haven't heard back from him or his campaign. 

Here's a copy of the email I sent:

email sent Feb 10 wrote:
Dear Mr. Thomas Mulcair,

The 2011 platform stated, "We will work with the provinces and territories to establish and fund a Canada-wide child care and early learning program, enshrined in law".  Your backgrounder states, "Provide funding and a national framework to assist provinces to adopt a quality, low cost, universal child care program".  This hints to me that you are backing away from the "enshrined in law" portion of the former platform promise, and moving to a more voluntary set-up with the provinces.  Is this the case? If so, I'm not particularly comfortable with this direction.  I feel the work that Olivia Chow did on Bill C-303 (Early Learning and Child Care Act) was exemplary, and should be the direction that the NDP takes when bringing in universal childcare.

Sincerely,

I may be overreacting to his not including the "enshrined in law" phrase in his backgrounder.  Still, I feel child care should be treated the same as health care (via the Canada Health Act) was.  So, I'd prefer the NDP to stick to the path that Olivia Chow set out.  I am glad that Brian Topp has reaffirmed his commitment to this path within his Support For Families document.  Anyway, if Mulcair ever answers me, I'll let people know.  Is Mulcair going to take part in a "questions for Thomas Mulcair" event in the near future here on Babble?  If so, perhaps I could ask there.


Hunky_Monkey
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Joined: Jun 11 2004
I agree @ enshrined in law. That said, if it's something else, it's not a deal killer. I'd rather a Mulcair NDP government that introduces childcare along with other progressive inititives than an NDP protesting from the opposition benches because we picked the wrong person to lead us over how a program is introduced.

Hunky_Monkey
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Joined: Jun 11 2004
Wilf wrote...
Quote:
Wrong. You can't be a member of another federal party, such as the Bloc. You can be a member of a provincial party such as the Quebec Liberals (as I assume Mulcair still is), Quebec Solidaire, the PQ, and so on.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was changed recently to allow membership in provincial parties where an NDP doesn't exist. I recall it being pretty straightforward before... not a member/supporter of another political party.

CanadaApple
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Joined: Dec 1 2011

I've had a thought. We've all been talking about how the next NDP Leader will compare to Harper, but what about how the next NDP Leader will compare to the potential Liberal Leaders? And if Bob Rae ends up being the next permanent leader, might that effect our chances of making gains in Ontario?


algomafalcon
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Joined: Oct 14 2011

Brachina wrote:
To anwser Algomafalcon's question about when membership number will be released from the other thread, the answer is the 21 of feburary, so tuesday. Mulcair has indicated that the Quebec membership was around 10,000, although alwhile back I believe Topp suggested it was around 15,000. So I guess we'll see.

 

Thanks. I figured we would hear within a few days. I was just curious. 


Stockholm
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Joined: Sep 29 2002

CanadaApple wrote:

I've had a thought. We've all been talking about how the next NDP Leader will compare to Harper, but what about how the next NDP Leader will compare to the potential Liberal Leaders? And if Bob Rae ends up being the next permanent leader, might that effect our chances of making gains in Ontario?

If Rae becomes permanent Liberal leader he will be close to 70 by the time of the next election. He is looking flabby-faced and loses his train of thought more and more - imagine what he'll be like 3.5 years from now. Best for the NDP to just subtly suggest that he is a "has-been" retread who has been on the shelf long past the "best before" date.


Stockholm
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Joined: Sep 29 2002

CanadaApple wrote:

I've had a thought. We've all been talking about how the next NDP Leader will compare to Harper, but what about how the next NDP Leader will compare to the potential Liberal Leaders? And if Bob Rae ends up being the next permanent leader, might that effect our chances of making gains in Ontario?

If Rae becomes permanent Liberal leader he will be close to 70 by the time of the next election. He is looking flabby-faced and loses his train of thought more and more - imagine what he'll be like 3.5 years from now. Best for the NDP to just subtly suggest that he is a "has-been" retread who has been on the shelf long past the "best before" date.


Boom Boom
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Joined: Dec 29 2004

I think Rae is doing a reasonably competent job as Interim Leader of the LPC, but, honest to God, I can't see him running to be the permanent leader.


Chris Borst
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Joined: Jun 6 2001

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

Here's arguably the top most concern for me.

Austerity.

I've read a few articles this week talking about Ontario, saying that in order to balance the provincial budget there would need to be cuts even bigger than those in the Mike Harris years.

Few pundits talks about taxes. And no one acknowledges the Dutch Disease, which is killing the Ontario economy. No one acknowledges the horrific labor conditions in countries like China that are literally impossible to compete with until they have some kind of labor movement of their own.

And I've been reading articles in the international press, which talk about a Greek economy that's been so horribly mismanaged that no one in the ideological spectrum would defend it. But the mismanagement is pinned on "socialism". And the Greek situation is often used as justification for the idea that we need to slash the social safety net in Portugal and Ireland. Even France.

...

What worries me the most isn't even that the conservatives will cut spending. What worries me is that Conservative governments around the world have been happy to NOT slash spending. Just cut taxes, create a huge deficit, and hand the car keys to the supposedly more progressive opposition. Then those progressives will have to make the kinds of cuts that no Conservative could get away with.

I'm concerned that by 2015, even if we elect a New Democrat, we're going to inherit the worst economic situation in Canadian history. A record deficit with a shaky recovery. Maybe even a double dip recession, if not a world community on the verge of one. Our NDP leader is going to have the car keys, and the pundit class is going to overwhelm him or her with the steady drum beat of "austerity, austerity, austerity".

Even though I want to advance a progressive and social democratic agenda, I often find myself worrying about whether we'll even be able to withstand the attacks on the social safety net.

I'd really like to hear one of the candidates call out this problem for what it is.

This is absolutely the most important issue and it is an issue on which I think the candidates have been all too silent -- or, at least, all too indirect.

In the Ontario context, Drummond at least has the honesty to stress -- repeatedly -- that looking at tax levels was specifically outside the Commission's mandate and that there are tax measures that would make his proposed cuts unnecessary. The rest of the punditry, of course, make no such qualification. What is actually least satisfactory about the Commission's report is that, despite much vaunted talk about "transformation", there really isn't anything the least bit transformational in the document -- it's just more-of-the-same "efficiencies" (that haven't worked) plus cutting some major programs.

In the broader context, the big issues that sdm points to simply aren't front-and-centre in the race: Is it Canada's goal to be a Germany or a Saudi Arabia? Being a Saudi Arabia is perhaps compatible with having a Chinese-type manufacturing sector, but not a German-type one. And the Conservatives clearly see Canada in Saudi Arabian terms. But, there is a complication in even the comparison. For German-type economies have been built on the impoverishment of other economies -- traditionally, in our now-emerging "Third World", more recently, in the eurozone's periphery. Again, there is a transformation called for -- high mass consumption and "social safety nets" have depended on a kind of world economic inequality that is rapidly changing, but who is talking about how we can adjust, save for the Right telling us to accept poverty?

I've long said, "I'd rather be a tax-and-spend liberal than a borrow-and-spend conservative". But with the caveat that I'm not actually, and don't want to be, any kind of liberal. I respect that Topp has made increasing taxes the central plank of his candidacy. Not only is that an essential part of any longer-term social democratic strategy (no matter who wins), it also shows an excellent appreciation of the need for "branding" in a crowded competitive field. But, I have the same concern as sdm about 2015. I think that competing on "increase taxes" v. "cut spending" isn't likely to be especially politically profitable, but I'm not convinced that -- even if it works in the election -- it'll actually do the job in the economy.

So, I come back to transformation. Where is the discussion of how to have a prosperous economy that doesn't need expensive "social safety nets", high taxes and endless "government programs" (because reliable, equitable consumption standards are the "automatic" outcome of that economy's operation)? How to have a prosperous economy that doesn't depend on having most of the world living in "Third World" conditions -- or returning us to those conditions? I have the unpleasant feeling that this leadership race is going rather too much like the recent Ontario election -- where no one talked about any of the nasty hard problems -- with the result that we really have no idea how to address the emerging world and will end up easy prey for the Right's lethal nostrums.


nicky
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NorthReport
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Cullen is addressing the austerity issue and I believe he is going to do a lot better in this Leadership race than many realize. 

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/ndps-cullen-would-make-rich-cana...

 


DSloth
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Joined: Apr 26 2011

nicky wrote:

Has anyone else received a call like the one described here?

http://restraint.org/politics/2997/topp-gun/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=topp-gun

Who goes negative in their phonebanking? That's going to burn them more bridges than it wins them support if this is actually the new strategy. 


writer
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Joined: Apr 11 2002

nicky, it is similar to a call I received a couple of weeks ago, in which it was claimed that Romeo Saganash couldn't speak fluent French.


Brachina
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Joined: Feb 15 2012
nicky wrote:

Has anyone else received a call like the one described here?

http://restraint.org/politics/2997/topp-gun/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=topp-gun

I think this tears, I've given Topp the benifit if the doubt and understanding because he wanted to make thing interesting, but lying, and lying poorly at that, about other candiates by phone bank is too far, I'm putting him second last, just about Paul "unilingual" Dewar. Do you here that Brian, this tactic is costing you support, including down Ballet support.

NorthReport
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Joined: Jul 6 2008

My hunch is when things are not going well in your campaign, the campaign strategy may be what do you have to lose by adopting a scorched earch policy.

Don't get me wrong, i like Brian, I also think he could do a commendable job as Leader, but my perception is that his Leadership campaign is in a lot more trouble than anyone expected.


Brachina
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Joined: Feb 15 2012
I will say the campaign from now on will be a different beast. Its no longer recruitment mode, its target the undecided members and switch voters as well as down ballet support. Its also closer to E-Day so things are only going to get worse/better from here. This the push.

Hunky_Monkey
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Joined: Jun 11 2004
DSloth wrote:

nicky wrote:

Has anyone else received a call like the one described here?

http://restraint.org/politics/2997/topp-gun/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=topp-gun

Who goes negative in their phonebanking? That's going to burn them more bridges than it wins them support if this is actually the new strategy. 

I had one and she asked me why I was supporting Tom. She didn't push any talking points against him after I answered her... she probably clued in from my answer that it wasn't wise. For someone who says he walks in Jack's footsteps... I can't see Jack ever running such a campaign as Topp is now.

josh
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Joined: Aug 5 2002
NorthReport wrote:

Cullen is addressing the austerity issue and I believe he is going to do a lot better in this Leadership race than many realize. 

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/ndps-cullen-would-make-rich-cana...

 

Good to see.

flight from kamakura
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Joined: Nov 24 2006

i've had three calls - each time i've signalled my strong support for mulcair in no uncertain terms ("i'm strongly supporting thomas mulcair") and each time the caller respectfully thanked me and didn't ask me a follow up.


dacckon
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Joined: May 19 2011

NorthReport
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Joined: Jul 6 2008

Going on now as we speak.

And I wonder how Peggy Nash's event went last evening at the CAW's Hall in New West.

http://www.saanichnews.com/news/139649013.html


socialdemocrati...
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Joined: Jan 10 2012

I'm excited to see Cullen's very honest and fair tax plan. I still think his strategy for Liberal-NDP cooperation is dangerous and would backfire terribly. But I do like his speaking style, and I really think his tax plan is important considering my concerns about austerity-mania.


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