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Actually considering that the Episcopalian church in the US has become one of the most liberal denominations...someone should tell James Baker that Episcopalians themselves "earn like Episcopalians and vote like Puerto Ricans".
PS: I'm Jewish too (well culturally not religiously - but you know what i mean)
Maysie, there's nothing anti-Semitic about that statement. It was coined by a Jewish sociologist, Milton Himelfarb.
It's pretty well known by students of electoral behavior that when one accounts for income levels, Jews vote to the left of their non-Jewish counterparts, as studies from a variety of countries have shown.
Nor do I think discussing (and certainly not endorsing) conservative and Christian complaints about "Jewish liberalism" is engaging in stereotyping.
The phrase Jews "earn like Episcopalians but vote like Puerto Ricans" is without a doubt reiteratting stereotypes.
Does that sound nicer than calling it anti-semitic and racist?
Shall I quote Ernst Zundel just for fun?
If it's a "stereotype", then it's a stereotype based on a statistical analysis of electoral behaviour that's been well-documented over numerous years. It's hardly "stereotyping" or "anti-Semitic" to point out that the vast majority of Jews (in the U.S. context in which the quote occured) are overwhelmingly liberal and overwhelmingly vote Democratic or to point out that when controlling for variables like income, Jews vote signifcantly to the left of what others in similar socioeconomic circumstances. It's what most of us would call an "observation" or a "fact".
Indeed, analyzing Jewish voting behaviour in the U.S., I think provides a pretty good framework to look at broader shifts in overall American voting patterns and how cultural and social issues have overtaken economic issues as the key driver of voting behaviour. Indeed, while American Jews (who tend to be wealthier than the general population) are overwhelmingly liberal, the more orthodox someone is in their Judaism, the more likely they are to vote Republican. So you have ultra-Orthodox hasidic communities with the highest poverty rates in the country (but who are strong social conservatives) voting overwhelmingly Republican while wealthier Jews on the Upper East Side of Manhattan (who are strongly liberal on social issues) are solidly Democratic.
It would be nice to be able to discuss such issues without having to worry about being called "anti-Semitic", a particularly preposterous accusation given that it was JEWS who were discussing the issue.
It's a well-established, albeit tongue in cheek, sociological and political observation.
I didn't realize that racist comments were considered acceptable on this "progressive" message board as long as they're delivered "tongue in cheek".
And for the argument that this is somehow ok because it's Jews talking to Jews about Jews... there are two other groups being stereotyped in that brief, but offensive quip.
Jesus Christ. Someone please close this thread.
I don't see how mentioning a direct quote that is in the public record is "racist" especially when if anything it is very complementary to the group being mentioned!
What if someone wrote "I went on a trip to Mexico. I found Mexican people to be warm and friendly". Am i now a racist because i "sterotyped" Mexicans as being "warm and friendly"??
biting my tongue...
Perhaps Coren's original family name was Cohen 'way back and he's trying super-hard to disassociate himself from Jews.
Kind of like Santorum and his Communist family?
Should say Coren is quite the apologist for the Vatican during World War II.
He should be made to read John Cornwell's "Hitler's Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII" (NY, Viking, 1999). (Which I recommend to anyone interested in that pope.)
Cripes. What is going on in this thread.
First. Mr. Tea, calling someone a "publicity-whore" is not allowed. It's oppressive language which uses a derogatory word for sex workers (and usually women in general) to make a point. It's not needed, and it's against policy. That should be straightforward.
Second. This nonsense line about Jews, Episcopalians and Puerto Ricans is also against policy. It's light-heartedness, tongue-in-cheekness and widespread use amongst Jews does not mitigate the fact that it engages in stereotypes touching on Jews and money. It also relies on the primacy of whiteness, as its comparison of one non-white group to another is an act of othering (the mentioning of Episcapalians notwithstanding). We can have a discussion on the manifold strategies of othering employed by mainstream Western culture (which we are trying to avoid on babble) elsewhere, but as a shorthand, just don't make broad generalizations about groups.
And the creepy speculations about Coren and how Jewish he may or may not be should stop also. I'm close to closing this thread, but there seems to be some interest in it. The quicker we all come to the conclusion that SunTV is hateful and xenophobic, the better.
Plus, if his heritage had any relevance it is so hard to do a search and find out the truth rather than make a slur:
His family name is English - from Cheshire.
http://www.houseofnames.com/coren-coat-of-arms
Has fuck all to do with fuck all - especially about his attitude.
I accept that the statement is problematic and I will refrain from using it. But uh....why are you saying that Jews are a "non-white group"? 100 years ago things were quite different but today like the descendants of Irish and Italian immigrants they benefit from white privilege and aren't victims of institutional racism (though certainly anti-Jewish bigotry exists, as this discussion about Coren demonstrates).
I don't think saying/observing that Jews generally have left of center voting patterns is beyond the pale though. There are historical reasons for that.
But yeah, the main point is Sun TV is indeed hateful and xenophobic. And that being a "supporter of Israel" doesn't make one immune from anti-Semitism.
Nice to see Coren in such esteemed company...
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/02/24/jewish-groups-defend-corens-comments
He converted to Catholicism in the 80s, then to various forms of evangelical Christianity and then again to Catholicism. He doesn't generally identify himself as Jewish but he's been saying he's Jewish today out of convenience.
To be fair, having watched the exchange, it does seem like Boteach is trumping things up somewhat. Coren did insinuate that Jews (or rather "liberal Jews") collectively are responsible for Hollywood's messaging and the rabbi was right to challenge that but he didn't actually say the Jews "control" Hollywood or the banks etc. However, in the video Coren also tells Boteach that Jesus "prefected" Judaism which is problematic and the exact same claim that got Ann Coulter in trouble a few years ago.
Still, Coren has been one to accuse pro-Palestinian activists of anti-Semitism without one scintilla of evidence so it's interesting now to see Coren, Bnai Brith and the JDL accuse someone of being too quick to claim anti-Semitism when they've all done the same thing themselves with less evidence. I suspect if Coren weren't an uber-defender of Israel or a conservative the Bnai Brith and JDL would probably be backing Boteach rather than Coren.
Of that, there can be no doubt. And that's a more crucial observation IMHO than trying to discern whether Coren's remarks were anti-semitic or not.
Yup, they're defending Coren because of who he is, not what he said.
Jews come in all sorts of colours. Some are white, others (like my family) are not.