NDP leadership race #127
Comments
I am a little disappointed in Broadbent. Traditionally former leaders play the role of senior statesmen.If I remember correctly when Douglas retired he did not criticize Lewis even though there was hard feelings and he did not approve of a man not much younger than himself taking the leadership. Similarly, former provincial leaders have played a role in the party but usually not so partisan as Broadbent.
Now which story do you find more credible? A campaign manager that showed up in the 80s, toiled imperceptibly for 30 years, or the Quebec lieutenant who was in the Quebec media every day for 5 years, recruited, and campaigned for almost all the Quebec candidates? Clearly Mulcair="high profile" window dressing.
Tom was a highly effective and articulate spokesman, yes. However, it's far from true that he recruited most, or even many, of our Québec candidates. In fact, his achilles heel in my view is that he kind of sucks at ground level organisation. Point at our high-profile front bench, and it's a bunch of people that were most pointedly not recruited by Mulcair. Boivin was brought in by Broadbent. Turmel was in the party for decades. Guy Caron's been around for a while. Hoang Mai and Boulerice were active in the party before Mulcair. Saganash was recruited by Jack. Laverdière literally walked into the Papineau office and asked "Uh, how can I help out?" Benskin served on the ACTRA executive with Topp and Guardia. The Québec City organisation is kind of more insular and do their own organisation and recruitment.
I'm not denying that there are several candidates that were recruited by Mulcair, and he certainly had a huge part in creating the climate that turned those great candidates into great MPs. But if we have a strong front bench from Québec, it's not thanks to Mulcair's recruitment efforts.
1)He really believes Topp is the only one who can lead the NDP. This is dead wrong
2)He is being manipulated to say these ridiculous absolute statements, in which case I feel terrible for him, and hatred for Topp if this is the case
What parallel universe is it that people are living in.
Ed Broadbent as Topps unwitting manipulated tool?
Thats probably a little extreme for most of the tin hats around here- but the notion that this is all the establishement trying to force things down our throats is only ostensibly more sensible.
I guess the histrionics of "what is Ed doing to party unity?" follows from being so sure that the party establishment has been intent on forcing something on us, and now they are getting desperate. Then it does follow that when its all over and Mulcair wins anyway, the shit is going to hit the fan.
If.
I don't know if any of you watched "At Issue" where they discussed this. They certainly seemed to suggest that Broadbent's comments could be damaging to the NDP and efforts to unify the part behind the next leader. All seemed to agree that Broadbents intervention was "unprecented" for a past party leader. Usually they stay neutral and above the fight, but to actually go so far as to attack the front runner - they thought that was totally unprecedented.
Mansbridge played part of an interview with Stephen Lewis. Peter ask Lewis why he had been silent during the leadership campaign. Lewis indicated that as someone who was an "old warhorse" from the party establishment, he thought it was maybe time for a new generation to step forward. And he said he was struggling to make a choice amongst the candidates.
This has been a very sad day in the leadership race.
About a week ago I posted that I thought the race could go in one of two directions. Mulcair would be perceived as a prohibitive frontrunner and that would result in a respectful and responsible debate for the balance of the campaign. OR the party establishment would embark on a scorched earth campaign to block Mulcair at any cost and regardless of damage to the party.
Unfortunately Brian Topp has steered the contest down the second road.
Make no mistake. It is Topp and not Broadbent. Broadbent says in his Toronto Star interview that he is speaking out because "I was asked to do it."
What is most disappointing is the personal attack on Mulcair, focused on supposed character flaws. This echos the surreptitious whisper campaign at the beginning of the race which was in retrospect so obviously designed to kneecap Mulcair and cripple his campaign at birth.
We have seen it more recently in the despicable Know Mulcair and True Mulcair slander websites. It is apprent to me that they are no longer anonymous except in an utterly unblievable sense. Topp's fingerprints are as much on them as they are on Broadbent's broadside.
Tom Flannagan today on Power and Politics gloated that Broadbent has given the Conservatives a "great gift" - quotes and videos to be used in future attack adds against Mulcair.
Frankly I think Broadbent's tirde should be denounced by all candidates, including Topp.
If not, it is another reason not only to defeat Topp but repudiate him decisively for these destructive, irresponsible and utterly Nixonin tactics.
The myth of Topp as a formidible strategist should be buried with this latest blunder. Topp didn't have the guts to impugn Mulcair's character himself so he recruited Broadbent to do it for him. He can't deny it because Broadbent said so.
It is obvious now that Topp will do almost anything to win. We can only shudder in anticipation of his next move.
Howard wrote:Now which story do you find more credible? A campaign manager that showed up in the 80s, toiled imperceptibly for 30 years, or the Quebec lieutenant who was in the Quebec media every day for 5 years, recruited, and campaigned for almost all the Quebec candidates? Clearly Mulcair="high profile" window dressing.
Tom was a highly effective and articulate spokesman, yes. However, it's far from true that he recruited most, or even many, of our Québec candidates. In fact, his achilles heel in my view is that he kind of sucks at ground level organisation. Point at our high-profile front bench, and it's a bunch of people that were most pointedly not recruited by Mulcair. Boivin was brought in by Broadbent. Turmel was in the party for decades. Guy Caron's been around for a while. Hoang Mai and Boulerice were active in the party before Mulcair. Saganash was recruited by Jack. Laverdière literally walked into the Papineau office and asked "Uh, how can I help out?" Benskin served on the ACTRA executive with Topp and Guardia. The Québec City organisation is kind of more insular and do their own organisation and recruitment.
I'm not denying that there are several candidates that were recruited by Mulcair, and he certainly had a huge part in creating the climate that turned those great candidates into great MPs. But if we have a strong front bench from Québec, it's not thanks to Mulcair's recruitment efforts.
I appreciate the correction.
I don't know if any of you watched "At Issue" where they discussed this. They certainly seemed to suggest that Broadbent's comments could be damaging to the NDP and efforts to unify the part behind the next leader. All seemed to agree that Broadbents intervention was "unprecented" for a past party leader. Usually they stay neutral and above the fight, but to actually go so far as to attack the front runner - they thought that was totally unprecedented.
For the umpteenth time- the media is in this for the circus aspects. "Could be damaging" is the stuff of stories and punditry. Doesnt make it true.
And it is true that most ex-Leaders stay neutral. Or, it used to be true until recently. At any rate, Ed has clearly never fit that mold. [Hes also remained more generally active than predecessors.] Ditto for Alexa [who never liked feeling obliged to stay neutral].
So now it has changed. Given that until recently ex-Leaders were expected to keep quiet, of course its unprecedented one of them would go after the front runner.
Duh.
I guess the histrionics of "what is Ed doing to party unity?" follows from being so sure that the party establishment has been intent on forcing something on us, and now they are getting desperate. Then it does follow that when its all over and Mulcair wins anyway, the shit is going to hit the fan.
If.
Who's engaging in histrionics now? If Mulcair wins, "the shit is going to hit the fan."
We don't need to worry about a candidate turning the NDP into the Liberals anymore. We are the Liberals now. Experts at stabbing eachother in the back and anointing leaders from on high.
And where is this great blunder of Topp's?
People here are ready to crown Mulcair. Its been all but a done deal for months to a lot of people here. [Switching back and forth from "if it isnt a done deal, there must be a conspiracy to stop that".]
At any rate, if you think that Mulcair is running away with it, how is it bad strategy for Topp to be attacking Mulcair's bona fides? You dont like it. Fine. But hardly a surprise. You arent the audience. But lots of undecideds arent going to like it either- thats a fair point.
But that still doesnt make it bad strategy. Bad strategy is something that undermines your chances of winning. And if you think Mulcair is running away with it, then what is it the Topp campaign has to lose?
Oh, give it a break. For a brain-dead former leader to pontificate like that plays right into Harper's agenda. How much good is that? He's retired, and he needs to stay that way. Somebody out there needs to give him a shake. Who has some duck tape?
My overall point... the party is NOT imploding. We're having a leadership contest.
Ed Broadbent's points might strongly advocate for Topp, and say that Mulcair is a weaker candidate. But that's what's supposed to happen in a leadership contest. We all talk about who the best candidate is, in our minds.
Amazed that some Mulcair supporters can dish it out, but overreact to the most reasonable of criticisms.
Take a close reading. These aren't "attacks". They're not the kind of thing that will prevent Broadbent from supporting Mulcair, or prevent Mulcair from supporting Topp.
The only way this harms party unity is if the sewing circle starts gossiping and making it bigger than it is. If we start taking this stuff personally.
And that is downright comical that you cant take the echoes here, G.
We have dozens and dozens of posts of people yapping about doom for the party, for Topp, for poor old addled Ed.
We have two or three people interjecting in the waves, that this is more than a bit overwrought, and we are the echoes?
This has been a very sad day in the leadership race.
About a week ago I posted that I thought the race could go in one of two directions. Mulcair would be perceived as a prohibitive frontrunner and that would result in a respectful and responsible debate for the balance of the campaign. OR the party establishment would embark on a scorched earth campaign to block Mulcair at any cost and regardless of damage to the party.
Unfortunately Brian Topp has steered the contest down the second road.
Make no mistake. It is Topp and not Broadbent. Broadbent says in his Toronto Star interview that he is speaking out because "I was asked to do it."
What is most disappointing is the personal attack on Mulcair, focused on supposed character flaws. This echos the surreptitious whisper campaign at the beginning of the race which was in retrospect so obviously designed to kneecap Mulcair and cripple his campaign at birth.
We have seen it more recently in the despicable Know Mulcair and True Mulcair slander websites. It is apprent to me that they are no longer anonymous except in an utterly unblievable sense. Topp's fingerprints are as much on them as they are on Broadbent's broadside.
Tom Flannagan today on Power and Politics gloated that Broadbent has given the Conservatives a "great gift" - quotes and videos to be used in future attack adds against Mulcair.
Frankly I think Broadbent's tirde should be denounced by all candidates, including Topp.
If not, it is another reason not only to defeat Topp but repudiate him decisively for these destructive, irresponsible and utterly Nixonin tactics.
The myth of Topp as a formidible strategist should be buried with this latest blunder. Topp didn't have the guts to impugn Mulcair's character himself so he recruited Broadbent to do it for him. He can't deny it because Broadbent said so.
It is obvious now that Topp will do almost anything to win. We can only shudder in anticipation of his next move.
+1
"sewing circle" what the fuck is that?
not a inside NDPer here having only joined last month to support 1 person mainly and I do not believe in my world view that someone with the label "NDP elderstateman" should be endorsing anyone let alone trashing a sitting MP. But that is just my world view.
And as I said is the stuff that drives people AWAY from politics not towards it, nothing like being a nasty conservative type person...and here I thought the NDP, according to my mom, is different. Guess not so and even worse you seem to think we should just shrug it off and stop "gossiping" about it.
And I took your nasty bigoted comments personally.
There has been a strong rumour, previously mentioned in some of these leadership threads that because Mulcair has on several occasions crtized the office staff in Ottawa that he will get rid of them and bring in his staff. It's not elitest and sorry if it was interpreted that way.
oh, and I'm not interested in playing anymore.
Do you not think it's poor political judgement to publicly criticize a running fellow ndp member to score political points?
Incidently. I am a new NDP member. I am not one of 'your crew' and found that comment very elitist. The NDP is not such a welcoming party after all to members who fall outside the standard idealogue.