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NDP Leadership Race #137

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Michelle
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Joined: May 10 2001

Oh, I know.  I'm more interested in what candidates are like when they're not in campaign mode trying to get votes, though.


Hunky_Monkey
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Joined: Jun 11 2004
Yah know, Michelle... he said Libby shouldn't freelance on the issue as DEPUTY LEADER and should follow PARTY POLICY. That's trashing someone? Right. Also notice Tom didn't trash Brian over his history of being "difficult" in Saskatchewan... or Peggy being difficult to work with and having several staff change overs. No. He took the high road.

Michelle
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Joined: May 10 2001

No, actually, that's not all that happened, Hunky.  But you keep spinning!

In any case, you probably don't have to worry.  I'm sure he'll win.


Hunky_Monkey
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Joined: Jun 11 2004
Michelle wrote:

No, actually, that's not all that happened, Hunky.  But you keep spinning!

In any case, you probably don't have to worry.  I'm sure he'll win.

I'd suggest you take off those Libby goggles :)

blairz
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Joined: Nov 24 2008

I think the whole Ed gave Harper his attack ad meme is pretty lame. Can you really see a campaign Ad using "I think Tom Bombed" as a sound bite?

The NDP owe Ed a significant debt for keeping Evan Soloman awake.

 


Mucker
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Joined: Mar 8 2012

I don't think Broadbent is hurting Mulcair, but I think it's hurting the party.  If Mulcair wins, there will be unnecessary divisiveness between the people Topp/Broadbent have managed to spin out of control, and those who support the new leader.


chimurenga
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Joined: Mar 23 2012

Broadbent has never had much perspective, actually. He was lucky to be the avuncular figure of a party the media paid little attention to. That changed briefly in 1988 when, riding high in the polls, he flushed the party's chances of becoming the government (or at least Official Opposition) by deciding NOT to attack the Conservatives' Free Trade proposal. On the advice of a US PR firm, he left that issue to John Turner's Liberals, and they rode it to a surprisingly successful second place.


JeffWells
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Joined: Dec 15 2003

More fun than watching: real-time sketches from the convention floor.

 


Michelle
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Joined: May 10 2001

You know, I'll tell you something, Hunky.  That incident pissed me off greatly at the time, but what really got me was the weeks afterwards of attacks that she endured on social media, and there wasn't a single bit of support that came her way from the man who created the whole situation and stood shoulder to shoulder with the Conservatives and Liberals to condemn her.

And now that man is going to become the leader of the party. 

I knew at the time that someday he was going to get more ambitious if Jack ever stepped down.  And it was his complete lack of remorse and lack of support for his colleague who was suffering because of his attack on her that made me swear that I wasn't going to forget.

I'm sure you'd love me to shut up about it.  But I'm not going to.  If he ever shows even the slightest remorse for what he did to a colleague, or makes any move to mend fences, I'll change my mind.  But I think it's pretty clear that that would be a long shot for Mr. "I am an ardent supporter of Israel in all situations and in all circumstances".


JeffWells
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Joined: Dec 15 2003

Broadbent's digging a hole for Topp that'll soon be deep enough to bury us all. At least we'll find unity there.

Sorry to see Ed become our Diefenbaker.


TheArchitect
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Joined: Sep 15 2011

As a Topp supporter, I'm feeling pretty good about the way things went with the showcases.  I thought Topp gave an outstanding speech, and his presentation in general went really well.  Shirley Douglas was fantastic.

The Dewar musical performance was strange and surreal, but Paul Dewar actually gave, I thought, a very good speech—much better than I was expecting.

Niki Ashton also gave a pretty good speech, though I thought her video wasn't too good, and the appearance by Francine Raynault and Noah Evanchuk was a lot longer than it should have been.

Cullen was the only candidate who spent the entire twenty minutes on a speech.  I thought his speech was poor.  I don't really have much more than that to say about it.

I had expected Mulcair to put on a good show, and I was actually surprised by how poor his showcase was.  The video at the beginning, I thought, looked like it could have been made with Windows MovieMaker, and the lighting on Mulcair during parts of the video was strange, making him seem oddly pale.  It honestly reminded me of Stephane Dion's disastrous coalition speech video with its low production values.  Mulcair's speech, I thought, was one of the worst I've seen him give.  He's usually able to give a decent speech, but not today.  I think part of the problem was that the drumming went on too long, causing him to be very rushed in his delivery.

I don't think the music was supposed to start playing during Nash's speech; her endorsers spoke for way too long, causing Peggy's speech to be delayed a bit.  I'll give Peggy points, though, for handling it extremely well.

Martin Singh's presentation was quite enjoyable.  His video was a lot of fun to watch, and he actually gave, I thought, a darn good speech.  The references to Tommy Douglas were nice.  He might have the second best showcase overall, after Topp.


iancosh
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Joined: May 3 2011

chimurenga wrote:

I noticed that the mainstream commentators were contemptuous of the drumming intro for Mulcair (to say nothing of how dismissive they were of his presentation - the excessiveness of the response revealing a mix of hatred and fear of the Mulcair option)... To those who are familiar with protests in Quebec, and with the massive student strike happening now, the drumming is a direct nod to Quebec and those students (the drummers were wearing red, the colour of the Strike). And this style of drumming - far from that of "a marching band", as one ignorant pundit put it - comes from a combination of Latin American music and protests and many marches over the years in Montreal (and elsewhere in QC) in which organised groups of street drummers liven up the scene. 

 

Thanks for sharing this, chimurenga. The CBC commentators continue to call it "theatrics" while missing the reference. It's a small example of how Quebec political culture can get lost in translation.


Lachine Scot
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Joined: Jun 19 2010

JeffWells wrote:

More fun than watching: real-time sketches from the convention floor.

 

Haha! Some of those are pretty funny!


Mucker
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Joined: Mar 8 2012

I'm beginning to think this whole "showcase" thing is just an awful idea after a 7 month campaign.  What, substantively, can be accomplished when compared to what is at risk?  The media is making the party look like a mickey mouse outfit, and actually its kind of easy to see their point.  Isn't it somewhat ridiculous that multiple candidates totally screwed up the timing of their presentations?

Cullen's approach to the day was obviously, without question, the absolute right choice.  Keep it simple, say what you think, and let the voters choose to support you or something else based on your substance.

I'm glad I put him at #2.


Michelle
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Joined: May 10 2001

Well, on the timing thing - it is the (sort of) left, after all.  As someone who has helped organize many social justice and activist events where there were lots of speakers, if there's one thing I've learned, it's that for lefties, there are no such thing as time limits when it comes to speeches and presentations, even when you try to impose a time limit on each speaker in order to stay on schedule! :D


Mucker
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Joined: Mar 8 2012

Removed.

I hope the word "removed" is not offensive.


Michelle
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Joined: May 10 2001

I just saw a clip of the drumming - it looked really great.  What's wrong with drumming?

Edited to add: I just took a look at those sketches by the iPolitics blogger - they're great!  Very amusing.  Good for those of us without cable and therefore can't watch everything live on Newsworld!


chimurenga
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Joined: Mar 23 2012

Michelle wrote:

I just saw a clip of the drumming - it looked really great.  What's wrong with drumming?

 

Indeed! Mainstream commentators just don't get the reference... they have visions of half-time shows at high school football games, presumably...


MegB
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Joined: Nov 28 2001

Mucker wrote:

Mansbridge was just on PandP and he looked drunk.

Hi,

You're new, so I need to tell you that you need to be careful about what you say about public figures in a public forum.  rabble.ca has no budget for a libel/slander suit -- righteous or not -- and would cease to exist if it had to pay lawyers to fight it.

Thanks.


socialdemocrati...
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Joined: Jan 10 2012

Michelle wrote:
I'm sure you'd love me to shut up about it.  But I'm not going to.  If he ever shows even the slightest remorse for what he did to a colleague, or makes any move to mend fences, I'll change my mind. 

He did accept her apology, as did Jack. That counts for something.


Michelle
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Joined: May 10 2001

Uh, HIM accepting HER apology after HE attacked HER is not quite where I was going with that thought.


socialdemocrati...
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Joined: Jan 10 2012

Yeah, some of the presentations were a little off key, and I found Paul Dewar's a little embarassing. But if you're watching the NDP convention fanatically, you're either (1) an NDP member trying to figure out who to vote for, and thus you support the party, or (2) you're an NDP hater looking for some kind of sign that they're the wild, dirty, disorganized mob that you fear them to be, and you probably found the sign you were looing for.

I suppose that next time we do this whole process, we'll have learned some things that don't work.


radiorahim
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Joined: Jun 17 2002

I just cast my online first ballot for Peggy Nash.

She's the only candidate with a shot at winning who "gets" social activism.

 


Mucker
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Joined: Mar 8 2012

Watching the replays of the speeches on CPAC, and here is what I've concluded as of now:

Ashton = good

Topp = way overrated.  Not sure what he did today that made everyone think he gave such a good speech.

Mulcair = no where near as bad as everyone is making it sound.


vaudree
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Joined: Sep 7 2001

Boom Boom wrote:
I thought the Mulcair 20 minutes were just weird, very American-like, but, regardless, I think Tom will win this.

Mulcair's speech struck me as one directed at his critics rather than undecideds. He said that the only people he was against were the people on the other side (ie Harper's bunch) and talked about the Middle East. The only candidate to mention the Middle East during the debates was Ashton and Independent Jewish Voices had just put out an anti Mulcair video. Except for Broadbent, those criticizing Mulcair's speech seem to be saying that this Mulcair speech is not as good as other Mulcair speeches they've heard.

Ashton talk of taking on Harper sounded like a threat (thumbs up!) with her natural snarl when she said it - but Mulcair seemed to be promising that he was not going to treat NDP MPs like he plans to treat Harper.

Shirley Douglas has one presence! Not sure if the red ridinghood outfit was planned. Agree with Alexa over Ed.

The two which ran out of time seemed to be the ones with the biggest crowds. Ok, with Ashton or Cullen, it did not matter how big the crowd was because it would not slow people up getting on stage.

blairz wrote:
Singh's video is excellent.

Singh's son much take after his father a bit to be able to get up on stage in a room full of people by himself and know that his performance is going to be broadcast around the country.

Both me and my mom figured that the live music/performances was better at the Convention than the music Will and Kate were exposed to. Charlie Angus looked like he was really enjoying himself. I wonder who the drummers are - have a vague memory of a Quebec MP whose brother is in a band like that but not sure.

Kinetix wrote:
Online voting is down.

Doesn't surprise me. It probably just crashed because everyone was voting right after the speeches. Any time after midnight should be ok since the traffic should be less.

 


socialdemocrati...
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Joined: Jan 10 2012

Michelle wrote:

Uh, HIM accepting HER apology after HE attacked HER is not quite where I was going with that thought.

Maybe you have a skewed perspective if you saw it as an attack.

He said that she shouldn't have gone off script, as did Jack Layton, and she apologized for it.

If she was in the right, why apologize?


Michelle
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Joined: May 10 2001

Quote:

Maybe you have a skewed perspective if you saw it as an attack.

He said that she shouldn't have gone off script, as did Jack Layton, and she apologized for it.

If she was in the right, why apologize?

Yes, why would she apologize when her colleague starts a shitstorm that results in constant attacks against her in the media and the House of Commons that lasts for a week?

Have you ever been attacked like that and wanted it to stop?

I remember a time in my life when I often apologized when I wasn't wrong in order to stop verbal attacks against me at the hands of a bully.  It was unfortunate that she should have been forced into such a damage control move by the media attack that Mulcair launched on her.


Michelle
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Joined: May 10 2001

Wow, look at all the empty chairs behind the woman who is introduced the Jack tribute.  (I didn't catch her name.)  You'd think they would have positioned her a bit better so that it doesn't look like the place is empty behind her!


pookie
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Joined: Dec 13 2005

So far this is underwhelming.  It's made far worse by the translation when Jack speaks in French.  I hope the whole thing isn't like this.

ETA: Good God.  Could they not have designed the video to have the translation done beforehand?  This is painful.


Hunky_Monkey
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Joined: Jun 11 2004
Michelle wrote:

Quote:

Maybe you have a skewed perspective if you saw it as an attack.

He said that she shouldn't have gone off script, as did Jack Layton, and she apologized for it.

If she was in the right, why apologize?

Yes, why would she apologize when her colleague starts a shitstorm that results in constant attacks against her in the media and the House of Commons that lasts for a week?

Have you ever been attacked like that and wanted it to stop?

I remember a time in my life when I often apologized when I wasn't wrong in order to stop verbal attacks against me at the hands of a bully.  It was unfortunate that she should have been forced into such a damage control move by the media attack that Mulcair launched on her.

You're equating Tom's remarks with what the Liberals and Tories said about her. Apples and oranges. And if you don't think the other parties would have ignored the story if Tom hadn't commented... nope... not at all.

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