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As a Bill Siksay-Lib Davies-Svend Robinson inclined NDP supporter, this victory is more than meh. But congrats to all you babblers who are celebrating Mulcair's victory. I'm happy for you and hope you're right in his ability to take down Harper.
Some 10 years ago, I abandoned being active in the NDP because I was not pleased with the right ward direction Layton was taking the party. I only renewed my membership to support Saganash for leadership. Don't get me wrong, I liked Layton the individual and in retrospect, he should be commended for doing a good job in balancing the "old, decrepit" ideals of socialism with the "new, pragamatic" ideas of progressive politics very well. But foreign policy and public safety positions sucked.
I don't foresee those positions improving. And I certainly hope Mulcair does not go in Blair's direction. If he and the NDP stand strong for unionized workers, promote income equality through progressive taxation, protect the public sector (i.e. NO to P3s), adopt a strong adherence to restricting foreign investment, strengthen evironmental oversight on resource development, protect our universal health care system from any privatizing incursions and increase funding to strengthen it, ditto for our public broadcaster, and fight hard to stop us from entering any further US-NATO inspired, legally dubious wars, then I will continue to vote for and support the NDP. I would also like him to have the courage and admit that Israel's current policies re: Palestinians are atrocious and a violation of human rights.
I never got a very clear picture on all these issues from any of the candidates. Some touched on some issues more than others but none made me think that I can trust you 100%.
On a final point, if Mulcair can stop Harper from having his backbench henchmen move forward with a motion that amounts to regulating women's reproductive parts, I will give him a gold star.
In case you wanted to know how the Liberals are going to paint our new leader...
http://warrenkinsella.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/20120324-233936.jpg
Remember who your enemies are. Don't give them an inch.
Sigh, on the Huff Post:
New NDP leader Thomas Mulcair wins weak mandate after glitches and low voter turnout at convention. Also, Orange Crash.
Really, why doesn't the Huff Po Admit it is simply another arm of the Lib Party in Canada. They can go screw themeselve!
ETA: Who is Althia Raj?
ETA 2: She wrote for Post Media. She is a right winger. How can Huff Post pretend it is offering Journalism? Has anyone noticed how many Lib and Conservative bloggers it has? What a farce.
ETA3: Doesn't anyone else get as annoyed as me? These guys make me so mad!
Thomas Mulcair's fb growing 500 "Likes" since 3,500 to nearly 4,000 today
just saw Ed Broadbent likes Tom's fb page.
Unleashing our inner Pat Martin, are we, Catchfire?
Mulcair has not been talking about Israel during this campaign, that I know of, other than the statement on his website:
http://www.thomasmulcair.ca/site/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Policy-backg...
Others have been talking about Mulcair and Israel, in order to attack him. Telling HIM to STFU is way off-target.
Following up on Wilf's point, this went by last night, and I waited to comment until after[if] Mulcair had won.
So he has since said Libby stays on. Not neccesarily so clear and quick, but I expected that.
I dont think there is any question Tom Mulcair is a more ardent supporter of Israel than is acceptable to the mainstream of the NDP, let alone its left.
But as to what he says, all of what we have heard was before the race, and most of all: before he was Leader. Even a person as proud and opinionated as Tom obviously is, knows that being Leader is different.
Ithink we will hear little to nothing about Israel and Palestine from the new Leader. He'll leave that to the critic. Sure, he'll have that much more say over what gets said, but I see no reason to expect any change from the NDP mostly ducking and downplaying the issue.... both for fear of voter reprisal, AND because there are very strong differences within the NDP, top to bottom, in sincerely held beleifs about Israel.
That said...
There have been a lot of posts saying that Mulcair will not move the party to the centre against the watchful eyes and voices of the members.
Yes and no. And mostly no, that is largely a missplaced confidence.
Missplaced because it assumes an understanding of how the membership/base, and the direction of the party, 'works'.
Its neither as simple as the party elite gets its way, or that the base does or does not. Leader and Caucus move around comfortably in that very large mediated and semi-autonomous "middle ground." And the Leader very much sets the course.
I'm going to open a new thread on that topic- starting with some collected quotes from Babble. Not likely today though.
Couple things I will throw out now.
One is my hunch that Brian Topp will withdraw from an active routine role in casting strategy. If he does, I think that will perform the restraining role on Mulcair that a number even of his supporters here are looking for. Brian Topp is not going to 'piss into the tent.' But if he is independent of the team, and obviously has his own base, there will be the salutory effect that he could.
The other is that Mulcair is more dependent than Jack Layton was on needing people that were not on his team, that did not want him to win. Jack reached out to people like Topp that did not support him, but he didnt need them like Mulcair does. If you're Mulcair you have to be thinking that the ideal is bringing Topp onto the team. That may happen, but there are going to be some not so obvious problems with that- let alone Brian may understandably not be interested. He has enjoyed speaking for himself. There is a role somewhere in him doing that, regardless that it cannot be realized immediately. Why should he want to go back.
Getting Brian Topp on board would be the easiest way for Mulcair to 'operationaly' broaden, but there are others. But that wont be easy or smooth- there are the loyalties and ties to the people who got him where he is.
Anyway- there is that fact that Mulcair needs to reach out more than Jack did. Of course, that does bring up his unknown capacity for doing that. I'm betting he will challenge himself, definitely not wanting to live up to the expectations out there. But doing that over time is going to be a LOT more challenging than mending fences with Libby.
An engaged base certainly matters.
But it also matters that we understand what we are engaging with.
it's finally over: honestly, would a 2-month race have had any different result from a, what, 5-month race?
as for kissing and making up, leadership candidates' relative visibility starts changing drastically TODAY... Mulcair now has a slot on the TV news every Question Period that he wants one, and in between, too
as for Brian Topp, he could be a trivia question by next month, so his clout diminishes correspondingly: no longer chief strategist, not an MP, no real platform outside the party
Many 2nd-place finishers just disappear -- think Robert Winters after Trudeau won in '68, or Allan Lawrence after Bill Davis edged him in '71 -- while the team gravitates to the person with power; so Mulcair can make gestures here and there, as he should, but he won, so others will have to make gestures toward him, too.
Mulcair will get gestures galore. And no question he is the Leader now.
But you are missing the role Topp now has available.
He has his own base now. That is not in the black and white sense such things are seen around here. It is not a tool, much less Topp's tool. But the base that exists has shown itself.
He is an established writer. He can maintain an independent position if he wants, without ever dissing on the team, even obliquely. He does not need a formal role in the near and medium term.
That alone makes him different than the dissapeared second place finishers of yesterday. And the team does graviatate to the person with power- not to mention there will be nothing for any of them to do with Brian Topp now. But different than other candidates in the past- in practice, what the 'team' does, is Brian Topp himself.
The leadership isn't a prize. It's his job now to make sure that the party is cohesive and inspired, and he has to do the heavy lifting to make that happen. Mulcair's a smart man, though, and is already showing that he knows what is required of him.
I hope that is true.
But what he has shown is very much the easy stuff. Granted, it is the right direction. But not much has been required so far.
And its unrealistic to say that the leadership is not a prize. It's just not a sealed deal prize.
Well, he did hug her and kiss her when he came up to the podium, and she stood front and centre, so I wonder if the arrangement was made beforehand. Everyone knew what the outcome of the vote would be even before the 4th ballot, after all.
Anyhow, it was a good move on his part. A very good move. It's a good sign that he won't let vindictiveness cloud his judgement.
I wonder if he'll have co-deputies again? I think Cullen would be a great choice. He would do an amazing job at promoting unity, and you just can't waste those amazing communication skills. Of course, both he and Libby are from BC, so maybe it wouldn't be a wise choice geographically.
KenS, re: the post by me you quoted above - I'm not completely won over yet. But I'm keeping an open mind. I admit that his gesture last night was way, way more than I was expecting from him, and I'm impressed so far. But I'm not completely convinced. laine lowe's post reflects how I'm feeling at this point. I still need some convincing, and the only way that's going to happen is with time and watching what he does over the next while. I've got three years to watch and decide, after all. :)
Thanks for this, laine. And I say this as a former Trinity-Spadina kinda NDPer. Now I'm just a crabby feminist in Bob Rae's and Glen Murray's riding.
Please, tell us, what is "more than meh"? "Meh meh"? "MEHHHHHHHHH"?
I wish we had more than "take down Harper" on our agenda, and I also hope Mulcair can lead the NDP to doing it. Time will tell.
Babble Nightmare, live:
National Post writer congratulates party on move to the middle:
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/03/24/chris-selley-thomas-mulcair-ndp-will-take-its-fight-toward-the-political-middle/
Keeping Libby as Deputy Leader shows excellent political instinct (unlike, let's say, Dewar's presumptive naming of Angus and Duncan). I was hoping Mulcair would see the need to reassure the party's left, and that's a very good start. Also, Libby showed great grace towards Mulcair in comments made to the CBC during the day, so the words and deeds of both have made me hopeful for the prospect of party unity.
What the media says is utterly meaningless right now. They are all clueless- sniffing the air for farts.
There is by the way no 'chief strategist' position- not even informally.
Even generally speaking, the role Topp had does not necessarily exist. It was a product of a close working relationship with Jack Layton.
I would not say that Mulcair cannot establish such a relationship with Topp, if the two of them want that. But its not something that Mulcair just appoints Topp to, or not.
Let's not make comparisons to Dewar, He was one of the two that didn't even make it on my ballot.
While Nathan Cullen presented an interesting idea to support electoral cooperation between the NDP and Liberals, and Warren Kinsella seemed to support this idea, I think Mr. Kinsella wanted Nathan Cullen to win because he knows that this idea wouldn't work in practice. Essentially, it takes two to tango. The next Liberal leader (Bob Rae or someone else) could reject cooperation. This move would neuter Mr. Cullen and the NDP, and raise the Liberal Party's profile.
Warren Kinsella is upset that Thomas Mulcair won because Mr. Mulcair will highly likely raise the profile of the NDP if things go well. Thomas Mulcair is definitely a fighter. The Liberals will need a strong leader to fight a two-front war in the next federal election.
I'm with you 99.5% on what you said.
You're overthinking it SD. Kinsella [and Chretien] wnat merger with the NDP.
Aristotled24 - Thanks for this. I'm glad Brian Topp let the 4th ballot play out to the narrow 57/43 conclusion. Mulcair ran a campaign that challenged the left of the party and the left rose to that challenge. I'm glad it was Brian Topp on the last ballot and not Nathan Cullen as the message would have been lost with two "renovators/modernizers" on the last ballot.
Here's one opinion about how Tom's victory came about. He's fortunate that pretty much everything went his way.
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/inside-story-pivotal-events-that...
You could be right. I was assuming that it would have been presumptuous for him to ask her to be his deputy leader while she was still, in theory, part of the Topp very-long-shot hope. After the Dewar/Angus misstep, people would be nervous. Maybe he said in advance "Libby, if the result is what I am hoping for, I'll have a question to ask you as soon as the result is in" and she knew what he meant?
I do hope some of you people here take the time to quote and ridicule the people who said Topp was in 5th place going in to this.
I find it funny when it was those people who were the ones complaining that a whisper campaign was attacking Mulcair, when they were whisper campaigning against Topp. Good times, goooooood times.