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well , Dalton said he is not "prepared to balance this budget on the backs of families who may find themselves in difficult circumstances"
but he didnt say hes not ready to balance this budget on the backs of public sector workers
If he is doing the same thing to both groups of people, freezing wage or social assistance, than it would be fair to say hes not "prepared to balance this budget on the back of families who may find themselves in difficult circumstances" as well as "public sector workers"
Clearly, he didnt say that...the way he presented the budget is that he is going to control public spending while leaving those who are poor and need assistance alone, but he isnt. Public sector workers will be fine with a wage freeze IN MY OPINON, i am more worried about those who dont have a job and those who cant find a job and require assistance due to disability or this fuckedup economy.
I am sick of Mcgunity, he boasted about creating record numbers of jobs, where are they? who got these jobs? not the people who need them, thats for sure. Election wont change anything though, the NDP wont do much to help the poor, the middle class seems to be a buzz word for all of the three parties, and Hudak majority is pretty scary stuff for glbt people, so no thanks.
politics is a cruel joke at best, a living nightmare at its worse!
Who wants a redo of the recent worst past the post election in Ontariariario? Groan
It's busted, Jim.
Oh, I see what you mean now, takeitslowly. I thought you were saying the critics of the budget were saying that. Sorry!
Fidel, the Liberals might as well have a majority, if the NDP is afraid to stand on principle in case it triggers an election. There's really no point to there being any dippers in the legislature at all if they're just going to give the Liberals a free ride.
If the NDP isn't going to oppose the Liberal Party in any meaningful way, then they might as well be Liberals themselves.
But we just had an election a few months ago, and somewhere more than 4 million didn't vote.
Why don't the Liberals just accept that they have a minority and are therefore obligated to make concessions with all of the other
democratically electedFPTP winners in the legislature? Why would the broken electoral system churn out a better result only a few months later?What if Hudak the Horrible slides in there with 23% of the eligible vote for 110% of the power? Then what would we have to say about Horwath's decision to provoke the wrath of the phony majority mob?
Democratic elections are not snap elections for short term political gain. Voters also have a right to be informed of the issues by well-funded election campaigns over a reasonable amount of time. I don't think that is possible with snap elections. The voters are already suffering FPTP burnout. Turnouts are already abysmal. And we know which two parties have deep pockets for snap elections.
What I would do is support the budget this time but squawk like hell about it while informing the public that the NDP is being forced to support a party in government that wants to dictate the agenda with less authority than voters gave them. And start electioneering now for the next budget the Liberals want to shove down everyones throats without a proper mandate. IN the meantime the ONDP will appear to be the most generous and most reasonable party trying to make these WorstPastThePost results work instead of flies in the ointment as the Liberals and lapdog news media will likely portray us. Horwath could make herself out to be the adult minder at Queen's Park and chiding both Pinocchio and his evil twin Tim Hudak every step of the way to as democratic an election as possible under the circumstances.
Nobody's forcing the NDP to support neoliberalism. They choose to do so. With your blessing.
As for McGuinty's "authority", well Andrea's little public opinion poll is going to "prove" that the Liberal austerity program is what the people really want!
I've heard that the public sector wage freeze isn't actually in the budget, its in a seperate document.
Anyhow I'd enjoy another election, especially with the NDP at 30 percent, the liberals at 30 percent, and the cons at 34 percent, we could win, but I think the libs will fold on enough stuff to prevent one. Still it remains to be seen as to how the things will unfold. It could fall apart or the liberals could give in. Still being tied with the liberals is a great bargaining position.
Also after the ninities this seemed austerity light.
"...especially with the NDP at 30 percent, the liberals at 30 percent, and the cons at 34 percent" - okay - that's what I was looking for! What's the source for this poll, and when was it taken?
Yeah I think Pinocch' may just make concessions and avoid perpetrating another FPTP electoral fraud. And then again with a razor thin major minority McGuinty might not want another costly and phony worstpastthepost election, either. The blue-red electorate are fickle and may just decide to dump him and his government. God help us if Tim him of Hudak ever seizes phony majority power. It's a frying pan to fire scenario for the poor in Ontario, and I think Horwath has some time to play their game of worstpastthepost fraud to the NDP's advantage. She has time to blow the whistle on the two parties wanting another election so that either of them is able to seize 110% of power and calm "the market". Things are broken as usual in Ontario.
What Andrea Horwath's public opinion poll should have asked:
Would you rather have your wages frozen for two years or have an election?
Would you rather pay more money to keep the same pension benefits or have an election?
Would you rather pay more to renew your licence plates or have an election?
Would you rather see reduced government funding for arts and culture or have an election?
Who should pay for the financial crisis - the unemployed and the disabled, or the rich?
Would you prefer to see hospital construction projects cancelled and have hospital budgets frozen, or have an election?
Would you prefer to have 17% youth unemployment or have an election?
Would you prefer to freeze the minimum wage at $10.25 an hour or have an election?
Would you rather cut 3.44% from the Aboriginal Affairs budget or have an election?
Would you prefer a 3.63% cut in the Environment Ministry budget or have an election?
Would you prefer the expansion of Public-Private Partnerships and more privatization of the delivery of government services or have an election?
Would you prefer that the government abandon its target of a measly 25% reduction in child and family poverty by 2013 or have an election?
Would you rather live in the only Canadian province without an active home energy retrofit incentive program or have an election?
Would you rather have Ontario Northland railway privatized, or have an election?
Would you rather see half a billion dollars cut from education in the next three years or have an election?
Would you rather see cuts in funding for public infrastructure and housing or have an election?
Bonus essay question: How bad would a government have to be before you would want to have a chance to vote for a change of government? In other words, how much money would you be willing to give up and how much suffering would you be willing to see others endure, in exchange for not having to get up off your ass and go to a polling station to mark a friggin' ballot?
When is the vote for the Ontario budget - anyone know?
Yeah she has time to put all of that out there and more before forcing an election.
Snap elections and democracy are two different things, though.
Perhaps it does if you only choose to view it as an isolated piece of legislation, unconnected to present realities.
OW and ODSP rates have been frozen at $599 and $1064 respectively. The rent increase guideline for 2012 is 3.1%. According to the most recent Statistics Canada figures, the cost of buying food in Ontario was up 4.1% from a year ago. Hydro is up at least 3%.
The budget also does away with the Community Start Up and Maintenance Benefit, the Home Repair Benefit, and includes cuts to other discretionary benfits for things like funerals, glasses, and emergency dental care.
edited to add: This budget also comes less than a year after drastic changes to the Special Diet Benefit which resulted in most former recipients of this benefit losing much or all of this benefit. Many people saw their cheques cut by $250/month.
Ontario's NDP is apparently giving serious consideration to putting their stamp of approval on a budget that will leave people on social assistance considerably worse off than they were under MIKE HARRIS. But I guess we're supposed to feel better about that because the NDP won't be doing it with the same zealous glee as the Harris Tories.
I don't think there's a specific date. It depends on how long the debate takes. Within the next month.
Thanks. Maybe there'll be changes if there's enough opposition to it - not just from the NDP, but also from people in all walks of life.
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1154010--ontario-budget-poll-suggests-ontarians-welcome-wage-freeze
Hmm. That may mean 7% of Liberal voters oppose the wage freeze, 10% are uncertain, and only 13% support it, assuming all 34% of Tories support it. That's also assuming all 30% of NDP voters oppose it, and the 6% of Greens and others are uncertain.
We should oppose the wage freeze!
See post #1 at the top of this thread.
Do you ever contribute any posts to babble, Gaian, that don't have passive-aggressive, pissy little insults and attacks on other babblers in it? Ever? Just curious. Do you have to work at being so rude, or does it just come naturally to you?
Gaian, for the last time, do not refer to the general public as the Great Misled. Do not call other babblers "numerically challenged." This is absolutely your last warning. The next time I address your posts in this way, you'll be gone. As for any justification or rationalization for your toxic behaviour, it won't wash and I'm not interested.
Understand that:
a) I have no interest in getting anyone banned.
b) I've never been a mod.
c) I think free speech is a value worth defending, even if the person talking has a different opinion than I do.
Having said that, I do not understand why Gaian is kept on a shorter leash than say {rolls dice} Maysie, RevolutionPlease, and Fidel. Can anyone clarify?
Can you take this to rabble reactions, ygtbk please?
Sure thing.
At risk of pissing people off--
I would not make the wage freeze the line in the sand. People are hurting badly and unemployment is terrible.
But we would not win an election if we forced one-- likely we would have the Drummond report in full and on steroids with the Cons in power.
My line in the sand would be much more modest and the government could do it to survive:
1) increase income to those on social assistance and disability
2) restore the money to Aboriginal Affairs
3) reconsider healthcare funding that will not cover current needs because the cuts there will affect the sick
Everything else is bad but let's cover the most vulnerable and avoid an election that would make things worse.
Then, let's do better in the next election so we have more influence.
The above is all we could get and to ask for more will get us nothing.
Canada's Federal and Ontario's Governments Unveil 'Transformative' Austerity Budgets - by Keith Jones
http://wsws.org/articles/2012/mar2012/cana-m31.shtml
"...the federal Conservative and Ontario Liberal budgets are predicated on the reactionary fiscal framework created by two decades of radical regressive change to the tax system, including dramatic reductions in corporate, personal, income and capital gains taxes and increases in regressive consumption taxes...
The social-democratic New Democratic Party and the trade unions have responded to this week's budgets by issuing ritualistic pro forma condemnations. They have absolutely no intention of maintaining any struggle to mobilize the working class against the ruling class agenda of austerity for the working class and poor - and lavish tax cuts for big business and the rich.
Indeed the Ontario NDP is preparing to provide the minority Liberal government with the votes to pass its budget. As for the unions, the country's largest union, the Canadian Union of Public Employees, has just imposed sweeping contract concessions on City of Toronto workers, including the gutting of job security clauses, thus facilitating the municipal government's agenda of slashing and privatizing city services."