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I loved the "pile on" and not "everyone" or the royal babble "we" are in lock step! going right started with socialism.
I didn't make that assumption and one should ask before "assuming" that is what they mean - somewhat like putting words in someone mouth (in my humble opinion for what it's worth).
If your starting point is socialism, then what other movement is possible except to the right?
We need to stop treating "socialism" as if it was a pejorative. When we do we have essentially ceded ground to the capitalism. Unless of course all the NDP stands for these days is a kinder, gentler capitalism. I thought that was the mantra of the Liberal party.
Commie.
(ducking and running
)
If the NDP was true to its roots, it wouldn't need a socialist caucus.
It is possible for NDP members to picket the NDP and call a meeting of the press. Or to occupy an NDP office.
So I think the captive left, people like me, people who have to introduce themselves, do have some power, we just haven't chosen to picket them yet or produce a video that slams their policy, because they're behaving themselves. Just because nobody has done it yet doesn't mean an apt public response can't be formulated, and one which levers the NDP or if they want a scorched earth policy towards the left, well, we can do scorched earth too, right?
Some of us on the left don't vote out of self interest - it's those people you can't predict but I for one would go Liberal or Tory in a heartbeat if I feel my vote for the NDP is bullshit, I'd rather deal with a promise keeping Tory or Liberal than a leftist who turns his back on socialism any day - it's like stomping a turncoat career - easy as pie.
Yeah, that would work. I can just see the Cons delightfully using this in their next round of attack ads.
Why not? My income is fixed and immutable - my voting NDP is for others. And if the NDP abandons others but still wants the vote, I'll leave this party.
Loyalty to a party without principles is fascism, BB. Loyalty should be to the truth and to principle, not a party. I"m not an NDP crony and I'm proud of it - I'll support the NDP as long as it stays true to principles, else, I'll vote for someone else or not at all.
So the NDP is now without principles, is it? Is that why it became the Official Opposition?
Ha ha I guess parties have the potential to lose track of member concerns the way others here have mentioned. I don't propose any high drama is required just yet so I'm actually relaxed even though I don't sound like it.
A good union rep does it to executives. You can take out a person at high levels in a corporation. So we're not without power, any person, you just have to be willing to exercise it as a collective and you can take out people like Mulcair - they're not immune from public appraisal and responsibility to corporate objectives. And they're sensitive to revolt if you push the right buttons.
good one BB - chuckle - was away for a few days and working to make Ontario better for kids and education
Whatever Jan says I agree.
But they are the Liberals and Tories same old stories who are proven liars, because they told many lies in successive election campaigns. They were proven liars only after power was seized in fraudulent firstpastthepost elections and then failed to realize their election promises once in government. And it really is easy to predict that their election promises will be lies based on their past records in government as accurate references.
Canadian federal elections are like the Monty Hall paradox(Youtube), except that you now know what's behind two doors instead of Monty opening just one door. With Liberals and Tories you already know which two of three doors conceal goats behind them.
The NDP can not therefore be proven to have lied unless they first have a chance to carry through with election promises. And that means we have to elect Canada's first federal NDP government before there can be any accusations of a federal NDP having lied to voters. That's what I call straightforward and easy. Monty Hall has gone to extre lengths and rigged the federal election game in our favour. All we have to do is choose the one door we haven't opened yet in order to win the prize.
Perhaps the socialist caucus should form its own party.
Unless you have a party of one you will have a range of opinion. If you keep sub-dividing you will never have power to do anything. The NDP has traditionally been just big enough to make a difference while not so big as to lose the important range of ideas.
I would rather encourage all those who feel strongly about issues and principles to hold the party to them.
I want to see an NDP government and I think we will see one. But I also want that government to be the most progressive it can be. I won't leave the party when it does not serve an individual policy objective I want but i certainly hope the discussion is loud.
This is a place we can discuss ideas-- that is why I came back here. We all have a role in pushing the NDP to be more accountable and more progressive-- and that very much includes those whose only relationship to the party is from outside as a critic-- that too is helpful. But I hope those who are in the party stay and fight when they are unhappy rather than just leave.
Still at the end of the day, there must be respect for a range of opinion and understanding that all parties and all viable movements have a range. We just need to remind people why we are here, what we represent and what kind of society we are fighting for. At times that requires telling a political party that our loyalty is to that society we are fighting for over the party itself and to put them in a reverse order is to declare the party already lost.
The true test of Mulcair's leadership will be his efforts to keep those who disagree with his vision within the party and encourage them to participate in creating the common vision.
ps: Trudeau just won the boxing match against Brazeau. Fight stopped in third round.
There needs to be less overuse of the term "progressive"...a term which, in the end, doesn't really mean much of anything.
At a time when the structure of the economic status quo, both globally and in North America, is looking shakier and shakier, the NDP needs to at least be open to the idea of being genuinely radical, and to making a positive case for radicalism and radical ideas as the only things that can save the country and the world from what may be a cataclysmic crisis.
Yes, this involves risk, but the willingness to take risks is something that many voters are going to see as leadership.
Basing the NDP's strategy solely on the ideas of making the party look "safe" and "reassuring" means taking a far greater risk...the risk of committing an NDP government, in difficult times, to agreeing not to do much of anything. If the first NDP government lets itself get paralyzed in the name of looking "safe"...there may never be ANOTHER NDP government.
You do realize the NDP has had provincial governments
And some of those have broken promises in spectacular fashion.
There is every reason to be vigilant with the federal NDP.
Let's be realistic about that.
However, I certainly hope that they will keep most...
I don't have those ideas myself...If Mulcair has some of them, good for him.but green issues aren't the only concerns, nor does Mulcair being in possession of those ideas make my suggestions in any way threatening ot Mulcair's chances of becoming prime minister.. I was just saying that the party needs to actually listen to and continually engage people in the green movement(if not the "Green Party")and to people in the other social movements that are actually trying to find more and more of the answers that Canada and the world will need.
BTW...why the weirdly hostile response to my post? You raise valid points...yet, for some reason, you seem to assume that I'm personally indifferent to what you are talking about. I hope I'm wrong about that, but..if not...why DO you assume that about me?
Sheesh...we're not enemies.
And territorial.
copy cat copy cat
Gaian, I've edited the post you quoted to remove the comments about Mulcair that you found offensive. Would you mind editing your quote of my post to reflect that?
While I could have phrased that original post differently, I really didn't MEAN it to be an attack on Mulcair...sorry for posting something that came off being harsher than my intent.
This still doesn't explain why you went on the attack towards me prior to that, though. The original post I made in this thread was intended solely to HELP Mulcair...ok?
I'm NOT turned off by him. I was trying to offer constructuve suggestions on the general topic of improving the party's chances. And my original post wasn't even dealing with Mulcair's green positionss...so I'm still not sure why you are going on the attack here. The original post was NOT saying that Mulcair was unacceptable or that he was clueless. You read a lot into it that was not there.
And that post reflects a long-standing position I've had regarding ALL left-of-center political parties...the need for those parties to accept that politics doesn't begin and end with election campaigns and the passing of legislation-that the work of healing the world should be seen by those parties as rightfully including everyone who wishes to engage in it, those who wish to work from below just as much as those who wish to work within the system and those who wish to make change from above.
I'd like nothing better than to see Mulcair become Canada's next prime minister.
I want Mulcair to be not only prime minister, but to be able to continually use that position to make real change, and to have plenty of engaged and empowered allies in that work. I wish to help Mulcair, not to tear him down.
I'm not his enemy, and I'm not yours.
There's no reason at all for you to question my intent.
Where are those clap emoticons when I need 'em?