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Actually, your nonsensical statements are becoming increasingly superfluous to the discussion. They just gave a nearly 300 million dollar forgivable loan to the Irvings to get their shipyard into ship shape for constructing shiny new boats for the Navy. Straightjacket my ass. You should try one on.
The CCF made public financing of public debt a part of its constitution in 1933.
It was another socialist idea that just happened to be adopted by non-socialists. It was during the period of collapse of laissez-faire capitalism part I in North America last century. The CCF were pressing our then corrupt stooges to create social programs in Canada. There were tens of thousands Canadian seniors living in poverty then, too.
You are mistaken. It was not I apologizing to you. I was actually referring to your unsolicited apologism for neoliberal finance and banking in Canada. Because if you remember correctly, it is you who suggests that the NDP should promise to nationalise former Canadian crowns and valuable assets pawned-off to absentee corporate landlords since 1985. And if that isn't bad enough, you want the NDP to promise to shovel tens of billions of dollars more to the neoliberal bankers and foreign bondholders in order to achieve those ends. It's either that or you don't really know what you're talking about, one or the other. But if anything is true, it's that we are sure to have to endure more anti-NDP rhetoric from certain babblers demanding that the NDP promise to create Disneyland in Canada inside one single four-year term in undoing what was 35 year's worth of neoliberal ideology in this northern colony. You have no real plan to do it yourselves, but you expect the NDP to promise to do the impossible in the meantime. I think you're full of baloney about the NDP at the best of times, but that's beside the point.
..i was actually thinking the insanity plea but you beat me to it in post #61.
What would anyone say if I opened a thread on Nova Scotia and insisted that we discuss federal level politics and federal level neoliberalism only in that thread while constantly diverting us away from the topic of Nova Scotia's financial troubles and everything else Haligonian? I'd bet someone would raise a stink about it.
Okay, I'll take the bait and your invitation to swerve this thread into the rhubarb patch out there in Nova Scotia.
So you're implying the NS NDP nationaise Irviing industries? With what, funny money? Who else owns just about everything in Nova Scotia? How many other oligarchs were setup with the means of production in NS besides the Irvings?
They should go deep into hawk with neoliberal banksters and foreign bondholders? What's your plan for socialism in Nova Scotia by throwing Nova Scotians at the mercy of neoliberal finance wolves, SlumberJ? And cough it up because Canadian nationals in British Columbia and Ontario and Yukon etcetera are surely as mesmerised as you seem to be about Nova Scotia's long-time economic troubles, we can be sure.
I'll bet if we could peer inside someone's thick skull, all manner of superfluous thought and irrelevant meanderings would be seen gyrating and bustling about.
How did Fidel Castro manage to nationalize the Cuban economy - did he borrow money from the IMF?
See, I figure that's why Cuba is in the mess it's in today. The U.S. had Cuba in a straightjacket. Nationalizing the economy was like too left-wing. Castro should have started with baby steps - like, say, cutting the civil service by 10%. It all makes sense once you've followed the white rabbit.
(SCROLL FAR DOWN)There is a fight that can we can win if we join together on this front right now,,
The NDP has the balance or power in Ontario....
..if the budget passes it would create 20 % unemployjment in Ontario...
If you spread the word together we can pressure the NDP to propose a job creating budget instead,,,
If we all write to Dalton & Andrea ...
....we can stop this budget that would destroy Ontario for a generation....We need a Jobs budget!
email Dalton:'
dmcguinty.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org
email Andrea:
ahorwath-co@ndp.on.ca
Ok, I thought I'd just let everyone know that "Doctor Manderly" is a pretty obvious anagram of "Martyr Condoled".
So mods - why not just give this spammer their richly deserved martyrdom, and send condolences to anyone who mourns?
Win-win!
ETA: Erm, maybe that's win-win-win!
He didn't even borrow money created as debt by private sources.
But if you think that the situation in Canada is what it was in 1950s Cuba, you are mistaken. Cuban exiles and US corporations are still demanding the return of their corporations and land as a result. The cold war is still a reality for Cubans today.
And the Cubans have tried in vain to gain access to U.S. markets since the 1960s. Cubans could have Swedish style market socialism today if it wasn't for vicious trade sanctions imposed on them by right wing ideologues in Washington and Europe.
The problem with comparing Canada of today with revolutionary Cuba is that we are missing too many desperate campesinos. Canadians are not dying of TB while rich foreigners buy their sons and daughters in casinos and night clubs. We have too few labourers doing backbreaking work in cane fields from tropical sun-up to sun-down while their sons and daughters prostitute themselves to rich Americans and Europeans visiting on weekend gambling and sex tours.
We have no dreaded BRAC polizia picking up Canadians and beating them within inches of their lives for listening to Fidel's broadcasts from the mountains. It just isn't on in Canada.
I am glad people like you are not leading a socialist party in Canada. You wouldn't know where to begin. You seem to understand very little about neoliberalism in Canada let alone the situation in Cuba.
Thx Fidel I didn't think that the NDP had that policy. Carry on demanding we all acept the NDP platform and nothing else (except ideas you like)
I'll remember that next time you call Canada a banana republic.
But you haven't answered the conundrum of how Canada can't afford to nationalize anything, while Cuba managed to do just that with virtually no money at all.
I now prefer former Liberaler Mel Hurtig's description of Canada as a kind of Northern Puerto Rico since NAFTA. Remember it is you who says absentee corporate landlords controlling our economy is not a problem for any real socialist government, and not me.
No it is
1. you who demands that the NDP promise to re-nationalise 14, 418 foreign takeovers of Canada's economy and mostly by rich Americans since just 1985. And it is
2. ...you who is without a realistic payment plan for those re-nationalisations. That would be you as opposed to the NDP or myself. We make no such wild promises for socialism in one country and within the first four-year term in federal power. And in the end it would be you and your yet to be registered nationally anti-NDP party, whichever party that might be, who are largely unknown in Canada and in need of an actual public relations campaign. You still refuse to tell us about that party. I don't think it exists. And
3. It is you who is disrespecting the many Cuban campesinos and revolutionaries who lived in 1950s Cuba and backed into a corner at every turn. The Cubans of that era knew first-hand what fascism is and what it was to live it. Those Cubans would probably tell us to use this bit of freedom we do have to get off our asses and work to create our democracy. We do have that golden window of opportunity between now and 2015 whereas Cubans had little choice by 1959.
Canada is not Cuba. Canada is not 1950's Cuba pregnant with revolution. I can point you to a number of countries in this hemisphere which are pregnant with revolution and in need of excellent revolutionaries like yourself and your's truly, but Canada is not one of them. Canadians are not ready for violent revolution. Canadians want democracy but are still under the illusion that Canada is a democratic country abiding by international laws.
There are, however, other ways to finance social democracy in Canada and using democratic methods available to every other country in the world. And I believe that voting NDP federally is the way to do that.
I don't recall the victorious Fidel Castro in "1950s Cuba" telling his campesinos not to get their hopes up for any real political change during the first four years. What I do recall is a comprehensive nationalization of US imperialist enterprises within the first two years.
Ah! So the problem is not the money after all!
It's simply the political will!
Again, Canada is not Cuba. We have no right wing death squads murdering Canadians or CIA-inpsired BRAC rounding up communists. If you want to start a rebellion and head for the hills, there is absolutely nothing stopping you. The fascist park rangers will likely swoop down on you for squatting on crown land in the bush and wisk you back to the city. But remember that a handful of socialists and myself will be with you in solidarity.
Canadians are not ready for nationalisations by government seizure of foreign-owned and controlled corporations and valuable assets. Canadians are not living in fear of U.S.-backed death squads or U.S.-backed mafia governments in Ottawa as it was in Cuba leading up to 1959. Your insistance that 2012 Canada compares to 1959 Cuba is completely absurd, and I am sure that Cubans themselves would not agree with you on that issue. They will see opportunities for Canadians to change the system and work for democracy between now and 2015. We have so much more freedom than Cuban campesinos and revolutionaries did in 1950's Cuba.
The problem is 14, 418 predatory foreign takeovers of Canadian corporations since 1985 alone. They were paid for in dollar values now inflated beyond a reasonable ability to pay for renationalisations. Your non-existent party for creating socialism inside one four-year term has no realistic payment plan, either. There are other ways of taking back control of the country, though.
We want to maintain certain access to U.S. markets in ways in which Fidel's Cuba has strived to achieved since 1960 but were ultimately "discouraged" in their attempts. We probably don't want to seize U.S. corporations in the same way Cuba's revolutionaries were forced to and resulting in a cold war and vicious trade sanctions designed to topple Ottawa similarly. You may think Tory Ontario and Alberta might stand with you, but I think that would be folly. Your non-existent anti-NDP party would be tossed in the next election.
And instead of borrowing from the IMF or any other neoliberal banking institutions as you mention above, we could pursue labour friendly policies and even "fiscal autonomy". Now there is a term sure to instill fear in the black hearts of neoliberalers everywhere. We could even stay within the rules of the new liberal financial regime in-place since 1974 to achieve it, and there isn't a damn thing the other so-called democratic countries could say about it.
I'm a Newfoundlander if you must know, just slightly adrift here on Cape Breton Island. As for Nova Scotia, they've actually had some fairly convincing dibs on 'potato patch' ever since Pete and Belinda.
The historical subsidies to the Irvings from every flavour of government down east should have long paid off any rent to own tab by now, and then some. I'm merely quibbling about the whole arrangement as the NSNDP sees fit continue with.
It doesn't appear that any plan for socialism anywhere could resemble anything you might sign on with. I think we can all recognize that fact by now sorry to say.
..and so the resistence begins.
NSGEU responds to Nova Scotia budget
Halifax (05 April 2012) - “The public sector has done its fair share,” said Joan Jessome, President of the Nova Scotia Government & General Employees Union (NSGEU/NUPGE).
“On page three of the budget document, Minister Steele recognizes the role the public sector has played in the budgets of the past that have allowed them to meet their targets. He acknowledges the 1 % wage increases our members agreed to over the past two years (while the cost of living has risen over 3%),” says Jessome. “He mentions the changes to the Public Service Superannuation Pension plan (where benefits were reduced) and the 10% reduction in the Civil Service (where positions have been eliminated, and in many cases, those workers who are left are doing the jobs of two or three).”
“Despite this, on page 11, Minister Steele continues to ask the public sector to tighten our belts, says Jessome. “Public service workers have been reasonable in this province over the past two years. They have done their fair share for the economy of Nova Scotia.”
“Our members are now asking us to negotiate a wage that keeps them up with the cost of living. We think this is a reasonable position.”
President Jessome mentioned that cuts to the public sector have hit women disproportionately because the majority of public sector workers are women.
She also commented on the need for more funding for mental health in the budget and referred to the cuts of 17 youth care workers at the IWK Health Centre.
http://www.nupge.ca/content/4901/nsgeu-responds-nova-scotia-budget
Ontario government and NDP negotiators looking for a way out of their budget impasse should pay attention to results of a new poll conducted by Angus Reid Public Opinion on behalf of the Canadian Union of Public Employees (CUPE) Ontario, which shows voters would rather increase taxes on corporations and the wealthy than have public service reductions and cutbacks.
“This poll is encouraging for anyone worried about the budget, because it shows voters want the government to boost revenue with targeted tax measures for corporations and the most wealthy, so they can avoid any cuts to services and jobs,” said CUPE Ontario Secretary-Treasurer Candace Rennick, commenting on the poll.
“If this budget is not changed,” Rennick says, “we will see hospital bed closures and staff cuts, school closures and layoffs, and the closing of childcare centres in many communities. This poll confirms there is real support by voters for alternate ways to balance the budget.”
The poll, conducted by Angus-Reid Public Opinion for CUPE Ontario, surveyed 1,500 Ontarian adults online between April 2-3, 2012. The margin of error was +/- 2.5% 19 times out of 20. CUPE Ontario represents more than 230,000 workers in school boards, health care, municipalities, social services and universities.
Selected poll results:
61% raise tax on corporations/19% impose budget cuts on school boards
67% raise taxes on corporations/16% keep hospital budgets to zero increase
Yes: 76% No: 16% Don’t Know: 7%
Yes: 61% No: 21% Don’t Know: 17%
http://cupe.ca/government/poll-path-ontario-budget-impasse
You want to blame Dexter's NDP for more than 160 year's worth of Liberal and Tory corruption and mismanagement of NS economies. And you want Dexter to create socialism inside one four-year term. It's not on. Don't be ridiculous. I think you want Walt Disney not the NDP.
You should take your concerns about Nova Scotia, real and otherwise, to an appropriate thread.
..you're out of line fidel!
But we're supposed to be talking about neo-liberalism in Canada. Shirley you don't mean just in the NCR?
..i see you changed your post fidel. txs.
Yez are slipping. What about Alberta or Saskatchewan? You should try to fit those provinces in here before post 100 or risk being awarded thread gladio slackers of the year award. Come on, pick it up, you gaz.
Yeah, epaulo13. Don't go thinking you have any idea what this thread is really about just because you started it.
http://rabble.ca/babble/national-news/neoliberal-rampage-canada
What sort of publicly-owned ship building plant would you construct for $260M? The Irvings are already setup for it and will be creating jobs in Nova Scotia for Nova Scotians by what I can tell. $25 billion in government contracts over the next three decades is not a real bad deal for Nova Scotians. We have lost hundreds of thousands of good paying manufacturing jobs across Canada and many of them unionized, and here you are whining about Dexter cutting Nova Scotia in for a slice of what Harper economic pie there is to go around. Nova Scotia can use the jobs, and Dexter can use the political capital. Shrewd politician that Dexter.
Unless you have a plan to finance a publicly owned shipbuilding company in NS to compete with the Irvings, I wouldn't have too much to say about Dexter's plan if I were you. It's not an ideal situation, but then again 160+ years of old line party mismanagement in that province probably has a lot to do with the less than ideal situation that exists today.
Canadians Indifferent To Federal Budget: Survey
http://www.canada.com/Canadians+indifferent+federal+budget+survey/642240...
"..Darrell Bricker, CEO of Ipsos Reid's public affairs division, said the survey shows the public's perception of the budget is relatively 'benign'.."
You've posted some interesting headlines and information, epaulo. Thank you.
Yes I can remember reading that Marx, and later, Lenin, advised workers to get out there and seize the mainly U.S. majority foreign-owned and controlled branch plant factories, or what was left of them before asset stripping and offshoring due to neoliberal trade deals CUSFTA and NAFTA. It was so simple that even the editor of Pravda back then, Josef Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili, realized the genius of it and quit his day job to go into politics.
I just don't remember what comes next, though. Perhaps you and comrades Spector and Unionist will fill us in. Go for it.
..and you've livened up this thread fidel. thank you for that.
Well if Canada in 2012 is not 1950's Cuba suffering under fascist boot of U.S.-backed mafia government, then it is surely like Tsarist era Russia with Okhrana on horseback policing breadlines that extend for blocks in the major cities. Surely there are throngs of protesters being shot to death at the Palacial gates. Surely Canadians are backed into a corner similarly and have had their fill of actual imperialism.