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Breivik

Caissa
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Joined: Jun 14 2006

Confessed mass killer Anders Behring Breivik was insane when he killed 77 people in a bomb and shooting rampage in Norway, and should be sent to a psychiatric ward instead of prison, prosecutors said Tuesday.

A psychiatric evaluation ordered by an Oslo court found that Breivik was "psychotic" during the July 22 attacks - the country's worst peacetime massacre - which means he's not mentally fit to be sentenced to prison, prosecutors told reporters.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/11/29/norway-killer-psychiatric....


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Manic Wombat
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Joined: Jun 5 2011

False flag to get Norway on board with the new global trrsm security measures... not being a part of the EU fascists.

If Breivik ever starts talking just say he's crazy. Done and done!


contrarianna
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Joined: Aug 15 2006

Caissa wrote:

A psychiatric evaluation ordered by an Oslo court found that Breivik was "psychotic" during the July 22 attacks - the country's worst peacetime massacre - which means he's not mentally fit to be sentenced to prison, prosecutors told reporters.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/11/29/norway-killer-psychiatric....


So Breivik is not guilty because his "thoughts and acts" were "psychotic" and "delusional". Yet his vocal supporters, who include  high profile media pundits and elected officials, are treated as "normal".


Quote:
Ex-Berlusconi minister defends Anders Behring Breivik
Northern League member says Norwegian killer's ideas are in defence of western civilisation
....


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/27/ex-berlusconi-minister-defen...


Quote:
Anders Breivik's hatred does not come from a delusional mind

The Norwegian terrorist's political madness, which he shares with other extremists, has been reduced to personal madness

.....
What originally seemed to be an obvious case of political terrorism has increasingly been treated as a case of individual madness. After the local elections in September, media coverage and public debate followed two diverging trails. One of these focused criticism not on Breivik or any of his political compatriots on the Islamophobic right, but on local and national police, and the Norwegian political authorities. This approach came to a preliminary conclusion when the minister of justice more or less voluntarily left his position and was applauded by the opposition for "taking responsibility" – as if he, or the government, were primarily to blame for the terror, not the terrorist himself....


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/nov/30/anders-breivik-delus...


NDPP
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Fascist Anders Breivik Defends Mass Killings As Trial Opens  in Norway - by Jordan Shilton

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/apr2012/brei-a18.shtml

"On day two of this trial, Anders Breivik gave an hour-long defence of his slaughter of 77 people - mainly members of the Norweigan Labour Party youth section - In Oslo and the island of Utoeya last July 22 and said he would do it again. Calling his massacre 'the most sophisticated spectacular political attack in Europe since the Second World War, Breivik described himself as a commander in an anti-communist, anti-Islamic 'resistance movement' at war against immigrants, Muslims and what he called a 'Marxist' dictatorship in Norway."

more on Breivik, the Norway massacre, connected right, racist networks formations:

http://rabble.ca/comment/1271416


NDPP
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Breivik Says Only Death Penalty or Acquittal are Logical (and vid)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/04/18/norway-massacre-breivik.html

"The main point of his defence is to avoid an insanity ruling, which would deflate his political arguments. On official psychiatric evaluation found him psychotic ansd 'delusional'; while another found him mentally competent to be sent to prison.."

 

'Hate Behind Norway Massacre' (and vid)

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/236914.html

"Norwegian terrorist Anders Behring Breivik who killed 77 people in Oslo and Utoya last year has defended his massacre. Press TV has conducted an interview with Mauri Saalakhan, director of Peae THRU Justice Foundation.."


6079_Smith_W
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Joined: Jun 10 2010

NDPP wrote:

Breivik Says Only Death Penalty or Acquittal are Logical (and vid)

Grandstanding fucking coward. If he wanted to go out like James Cagney he had the opportunity last summer to take that step himself, and he could have saved everyone a lot of time, suffering, and money. But clearly he did not have the guts, contrary to the image he wants to put out with his military fantasy.

He missed his chance, and now he and his fucked up view of the world are not in control of this process, and he does not get to set the terms.

Though somehow, I don't think he'd be putting on such a brave face if he had even the remotest chance of winding up with his head in a noose.

 

 

 


quizzical
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Joined: Dec 8 2011

6079_Smith_W wrote:
Though somehow, I don't think he'd be putting on such a brave face if he had even the remotest chance of winding up with his head in a noose.

That comment is empty speculation. No one can know in any way shape or form if he would be a coward facing a death penalty.  That he murdered as many as he did with no fear of being killed during the spree suggests he was willingly facing death.

Empty speculation of that sort could come across to some as a sideways suggestion there should be death penalties in "certain cases" as a preventative strategy. Not saying it is just it could.


6079_Smith_W
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quizzical wrote:

Empty speculation of that sort could come across to some as a sideways suggestion there should be death penalties in "certain cases" as a preventative strategy. Not saying it is just it could.

No it's not, because I don't think there should be a death penalty at all (speaking of speculation). 

But any grandstanding he is doing right now about a hero's death doesn't mean a damned thing. Norway has no death penalty. He knows he isn't going to be executed, and he is just talking out of his ass. By daring to bring up the subject  he is just causing even more pain to some of the people whose loved ones he murdered.

He's surprised he survived the day of the attack? Bullshit, because he had the opportunity then to seal his work in his own blood. That's generally the way a lot of them decide to do it.

I don't  think he wants to die at all. He just wants people to pay attention to him, and to cause as much outrage and pain as he can.

 


quizzical
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6079_Smith_W wrote:
quizzical wrote:
Empty speculation of that sort could come across to some as a sideways suggestion there should be death penalties in "certain cases" as a preventative strategy. Not saying it is just it could.

No it's not, because I don't think there should be a death penalty at all (speaking of speculation). 

He's surprised he survived the day of the attack? Bullshit, because he had the opportunity then to seal his work in his own blood. That's generally the way a lot of them decide to do it.

whew. Feel attacked here 'cause i didn't say he was surprised he survived. did he? if not then calling 'bull shit' is a flourish that wasn't needed. if he did could you quote it as it is plausible for him to think that going in if he is sane and just a self-absorbed mass murderer.

also never said or speculated you think there should be a death penalty  but IMWV speculating on what he thinks is pretty silly as he is a murderer or insane  thus putting yourself where he is mentally has to be empty speculation. why do it?


6079_Smith_W
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Actually, quizzical, I was calling bullshit on his claim that he was surprised he survived. Yes, he did say that.

And you did say that one might infer from my comment that I am making an argument in favour of the death penalty. I'm not sure where you were getting that from, but I just figured it might be prudent to clear that up.

As for the things he is saying and doing, he is at least sane enough to stand trial, and the fact that he was cut off from a making a tirade by the judge in an earlier court appearance says to me that he very much wants attention, and to cause outrage. 

I don't see anything wrong, nor even speculative, about weighing his words against his actions. And in this case, him saying that he wishes to either be aquitted or die is a bit hollow, since he knows he is not going to be killed. 

And it is particularly hurtful to the many people whose choice of whether to live or die was taken away from them by him - the same choice he is arrogantly musing about without any fear of actually having to face it.

 

 

 

 

 


quizzical
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Joined: Dec 8 2011

can't disagree with a thing you said in your last posting except about BS at the  surprised part. did not know he said he was "surprised"  but i would bet he was.


earth_as_one
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Joined: Sep 19 2009

Breivik isn't insane.  His opinions reagrding the Muslim threat are shared by millions of people.  The sources which inspired the Oslo killer are clearly described in detail in his 1500 page manifesto. Breivik was influenced by American bloggers and writers who have warned for years about the growing threat from Islam. His manifesto quoted Robert Spencer, who operates the Jihad Watch Web site, Pamela Geller, who operates Atlas Shrugs web site Baron Bodissey (pseudo-name), who operates The Gates of Vienna web site, Daniel Pipes who operates the Middle East Forum, Bat Ye'or of Dhimmi.org... and a host of other authors and websites which promote the idea that Muslims are a threat to the Western way of life and our democratic values. These people believe that Muslims intend to take over western nations by immigration and breeding. Once they out number us, they will elect Muslim fundamentalists who will impose Sharia Law and enforced Dhimmitude on non-Muslims.

Breivik embraced these ideas completely. His motivation is to "save" Europe from  becoming a part of Eurabia (A Muslim fundamentalist nation stretching from Iran to Ireland).  His actions (aka murderous rampage) were intended to punish Norway's current Labour coalition government for its treasonous immigration policies which allow Muslims into Norway.

Many people share Breivik's opinions regarding Muslims and Islam. For example:

Pat Buchanan: "Breivik may be right"
A fire bell in the night for Norway

Also these links:

http://www.islamophobia-watch.com/islamophobia-watch/2012/4/19/breiviks-...

http://www.islamophobia-watch.com/islamophobia-watch/2012/4/19/edl-debat...

 

My post isn't in support of Breivik, because I completely disagree with violence and religious intolerance.  I am proud of Canada's approach to multiculturalism.  My post is just an FYI, that Breivik's viewpoint regarding Muslims, multicultualism and immigration enjoys widespread support.  A significant number of Canadians, Americans and Europeans agree with Breivik.  Most (but not all) disagree with his actions.  As Muslim immigration increases, more and more people will come to share Breivik's opinions of them.  Brievik is hoping his actions will trigger violent revolution.  Its possible he could succeed.

I don't come here much, because this website doesn't allow much dissent.  It mostly consists of group of people agreeing with each other.  I am a tolerant, agnostic, fiscally responible socialist... So yes I can post here... but I find it boring debating a group of people who mostly agree with each other and share similar opinions as myself.

This place should be called bubble because you debate in isolation with people who mostly agree with each other.  Having an open mind is the ability to consider an idea without embracing it.  If you want to reach more people with your opinions, then you have to listen to their opinions too.

While I am against flaming people, being rude, or personal insults, I also like spirited, respectful and polite debate.  That means challenging people who oppose my viewpoint.   I find it sharpens my debating skills and keeps me informed.

 


NDPP
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Joined: Dec 28 2008

Hey earth_as_one

Slavoj Zizek, writing in the guardian in August last year, said of Breivik: 'He realizes the ultimate paradox of a Zionist Nazi - how is this possible?'

oh and 'bubble' instead of babble is very apt and funny..


Rebecca West
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Joined: Nov 28 2001

I've watched some footage of Breivik being transported back and forth from prison to court, and he is clearly drinking up the attention -- truly enjoying himself, delighted with his new-found celebrity.

While psychosis is an aspect of mental illness, being a psychopath doesn't necessarily imply insanity.  Given the depth of planning and successful execution of his rampage, he's  a psychopath, for sure, but seems completely sane.  People suffering from psychotic episodes aren't usually that well organized and goal-oriented during psychosis, and often cannot recall what they said or did during the episode.  Breivik knew exactly what he was doing, while he did it, and was completely aware of his actions and their aftermath after he was apprehended.

The best thing to do is conlude this trial quickly and dump him into an anonymous hole for the remainder of his days.


Slumberjack
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Joined: Aug 8 2005

earth_as_one wrote:
It mostly consists of group of people agreeing with each other. ...... but I find it boring debating a group of people who mostly agree with each other and share similar opinions as myself.

I suppose it wouldn't help to know we're doing all we can?


NDPP
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Joined: Dec 28 2008

there's more than a few that think like him, alas...and like the Mohamed Merah case, there are also disurbing 'contradictions' with respect to his travels, his weaponry and his relationship to the police and other authorities. If Breivk were a 'state' instead of a person,  a bit of mass murder to precipitate an anti-Muslim societal backlash might be nothing novel at all for these times...eh?


Caissa
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Joined: Jun 14 2006

I echo Rebecca's comments:

Rebecca West wrote:

The best thing to do is conlude this trial quickly and dump him into an anonymous hole for the remainder of his days.


kropotkin1951
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Joined: Jun 6 2002

You are prosecuted for crimes if you understand that what you are doing is wrong and do it anyway. If you are having a psychotic breakdown where angels are telling you to kill your family you are sent to a mental health facility until it is determined you will not have those kinds of breaks again.  This guy is clearly legally competent to stand trial in the Canadian context.

He apparently is being given a pulpit because the doctors couldn't decide whether he was psychotic at the time.  In Canada the preplanning he enegaged in would make this a no brainer and he would have been charged with crimes. Given his confession and all the evidence his motivation political or otherwise would not be part of a criminal trial except maybe in sentencing.

Criminal Code of Canada wrote:

16. (1) No person is criminally responsible for an act committed or an omission made while suffering from a menttal disorder that rendered the person incapable of appreciating the nature and quality of the act or omission or of knowing that it was wrong.

Daily Mail wrote:

Since Breivik has confessed to the July 22 attacks - claiming they were necessary to protect Norway from being taken over by Muslims - the key issue that remains unresolved is his mental health.

The 33-year-old Norwegian was found insane in one examination that recommended committing him to compulsory psychiatric care, while a second assessment found him mentally competent to be sent to prison.

It will be up to the judges in Oslo's district court to decide which diagnosis they find most believable.

If deemed mentally competent, he would face a maximum prison sentence of 21 years.

Alternatively, he could be kept in custody for as long as he is deemed a danger to society.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2130364/Anders-Behring-Breivik-trial-Norwegian-killer-breaks-Vlad-Impaler-video-played.html


6079_Smith_W
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Joined: Jun 10 2010

I think balancing between a public trial and giving him a soapbox is a difficult call. As I said, he has already been cut off in past appearances when he tried to make speeches. And the judge has barred video from the trial. But it does need to be a public process. 


kropotkin1951
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Joined: Jun 6 2002

If all the doctors had agreed he was psychotic he would have been sent away without a public trial just like we do in Canada. As well if he had been deemed mentally competent to stand trial by all the doctors he would have either plead guilty and gone right to sentencing or he would be claiming he didn't do it.  This is the only process that gives him a soapbox because a judge is trying to determine his state of mind at the time of the shootings. I think the doctors who ignored his intricate planning are the ones who gave him a bully pulpit to work with. 


Rebecca West
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Joined: Nov 28 2001

Yes, of course it needs to be a public process - rule of law demands it.  I think the last thing we would want is to set up some kind of starchamber to try this individual.  Regardless of how heinous his crimes, how repulsive his personality, he has legal rights.

The media, of course, is having a field day with it's usual irresponsible self-interest.  The sooner this trial can be concluded, the sooner this person can disappear to rot in the anonymity of Norway's penal system.


Buddy Kat
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Joined: Sep 21 2006

They would like for the whole world to believe he is insane …Everything he say is jibberrish..Nothing to hear folks ..Go on your way….try it , you won’t like it.

 

We are supposed to forget about his HARDCORE CONSERVATIVE view on everything..He sounds like yer typical right wing extremist conservative …Plenty of what he says we’ve all heard on conservative media outlets ..Especially the anti Muslim baloney…

 

Of course no one is going to advocate killing but when you see targets placed between the eyes of democrats like the conservative repubs in the US did ..It is very suggestive. If not implying the same kind of radical extremist views the wacko Norwegian promotes….You think the racist , sexist , bigoted cons here in Canada are any different….Shit they want you to think that environmentalists are radicals and terrorists like they think Muslims are …the biggest danger is Islamism..WTF?

 

Demolay …..For you all that don’t know is the male child/teen branch of the Masons …just like Jobs daughters are for the female child/teen branch and the eastern star with the upside down pentagram as a symbol are for the masons wives.  I wonder if anyone can verify that Harper was once a Demolay mason.?or even if he still is?

 

DeMolay is the crusader knight that steadily creeps up when talking about the Norwegian and his Conservative connection. His anti multiculturism god that represents his conservative ideology.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zky2bn0Gtyg New

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-QvXax88J8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0eQgUpkJ1Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns8LD5Q8ecc


6079_Smith_W
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Joined: Jun 10 2010

@ kropotkin1951

I'm not an expert, but I am not so sure that is true. There certainly have been cases of people who had serious mental illness, and even delusion, yet had their day in court. Vicnent Li is one example.

And in any case, it is not the job of psychatrists to declare someone unfit to stand trial based on whether they think we should hear what they have to say or not (though there have certainly been enough people whose right to a public forum was denied based on accusations of not being of sound mind.

Also, I can imagine  there must be some who DO want answers, even if this is all just public masturbation for the accused. I have not been following the trial closely, but I was impressed by the steps the judge took to prevent Breivik or others from abusing the process.

 


kropotkin1951
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Joined: Jun 6 2002

6079_Smith_W wrote:

@ kropotkin1951

I'm not an expert, but I am not so sure that is true. There certainly have been cases of people who had serious mental illness, and even delusion, yet had their day in court. Vicnent Li is one example.

 

Define "that".  Please quote my post so I can figure out why you think I said that people with serious mental illness don't ever stand trial. In fact our prisons are crammed to the gunnels with people with FASD who just don't get it and that lack of getting it gets them into trouble.

As for Vincent I would argue it was not he who got his day in court but instead it was the prosecution team. They could have accepted his plea but instead chose to go for a conviction that would keep him in prison forever. If he had been convicted he also would not get the care that he would at someplace like Colony Farms in BC. 

I have actually met a man who had murdered part of his family while in a delusional state and he thought GOD was talking to him. He is recovering because he is getting good care.  Being sent to a regular prison without proper mental health care would likely constitute cruel and unusual punishment. Nothing I have read about Brevik reminds me of the person I met.  Its the sophisticated planning over a long period that stands out for me.


NDPP
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Joined: Dec 28 2008

Anders Behring Breivik was no more or less 'insane' than the young Zionist soldiers of Israel who cold bloodedly gunned down Palestinian children in Gaza - to defend a White homeland and Western civilization. The sources from which we know he drew his inspiration are loud and persuasive and growing in influence all around us.


6079_Smith_W
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Joined: Jun 10 2010

This:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

If all the doctors had agreed he was psychotic he would have been sent away without a public trial just like we do in Canada.


Rebecca West
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Joined: Nov 28 2001

NDPP wrote:

Anders Behring Breivik was no more or less 'insane' than the young Zionist soldiers of Israel who cold bloodedly gunned down Palestinian children in Gaza - to defend a White homeland and Western civilization. The sources from which we know he drew his inspiration are loud and persuasive and growing in influence all around us.

I reported on that.  Of course European and Israeli children are more important  than Palestinian and other non-Isreali children.  It has absolutely nothing to do with religion and everything to do with ideological power and control over a large parcel of land that has some obscure historical and spiritual meaning for a small group of people.


kropotkin1951
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Joined: Jun 6 2002

That is the norm in Canada. Could you please point me to the cites that you are referring to when you say you are not sure it is true. Or are you just saying you don't accept it without any basis in something you have read about the issue.


Rebecca West
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Joined: Nov 28 2001

Kropotkin, can you quote the post directly?


NDPP
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Joined: Dec 28 2008

Breivik Describes Hunting Down Teenagers

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/04/20/norway-massacre-breivik.html

"He said his goal was to kill all of the nearly 600 people on the island. He said he thought about wearing a swastika on his chest as a pure fear factor, but decided against it, because he didn't want people to think he was a Nazi.

'You will die today Marxists', I yelled," Breivik recalled..."

Anders Behring Breivik Reflects Changing Face of Modern Far Right  - by Nick Lowes

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/18/anders-behring-breivik-moder...

"Breivik comes from a culturally conservative Christian background and this has shaped much of his political outlook. Into this he has incorporated more traditional nationalist and racist ideologies and adopted the politics and language of the 'counter-Jihad' movement which believes Islam is a major threat to Western civilization.

I do not believe Breivik's Knights Templars exist. Perhaps he got the idea from Paul Ray, one of the founders of the English Defence League, who claims to run the Ancient Order of the Templar Knights.."


kropotkin1951
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Joined: Jun 6 2002

Now I am confused. What post are you referring to. One of mine, one of 6079's or someone elses?

 


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