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Liberal-NDP budget

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M. Spector
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Joined: Feb 19 2005

Like the Hudak Conservatives, S&P thinks the Liberal-NDP Majority Government™'s austerity program doesn't go far enough into the pockets of the poor, the disabled, and the middle class public sector workers. They are hoping to ratchet up the pressure so that the next Liberal-NDP Majority Government™'s budget will go even farther.


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

NorthReport wrote:

Cry me a river - who is she stepping on now

She is not the premier yet in case people haven't noticed.

But them's the breaks - politics is a blood sport, so get used to it.

 

Dirty-rotten FPTP politics that is. And yes, we should be used to it by now.

And remember when the federal Liberals propped-up Harper all those times by negotiating taxes raising for rich people. Wait a minute? It must never have happened. Oh well...


NDPP
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Joined: Dec 28 2008

Ultimately, the banksters will steal everything that's not nailed down and drain us all dry as hay. People had better disabuse themselves of illusions of benign democracy and prepare to defend against raids against our common assets. The Rating agencies like S&P are with the raiding parties, as is Drummond, Hudak, McGuinty and Horwath if not firmly managed by an aware and motivated citizenry. Which at present is neither.

The Artist Taxi Driver (and vid)

http://youtu.be/TzjEE0Nt8LU

'Democracy Rejects Austerity!'


epaulo13
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Joined: Dec 13 2009

..from the rampage thread.

http://rabble.ca/comment/1334099

Ontario hopes deep budget cuts will calm debt markets

This is a budget aimed at pleasing none, except Ontario’s creditors.

With its much-anticipated 2012 budget, the Ontario government seeks to repair the province’s deteriorating fiscal position, chip away at a debt burden headed toward unsustainability, and avoid a downgrade to its credit rating.

A mix of cost control and revenue increases will eliminate the $15.3-billion deficit over the next six years, finance minister Dwight Duncan said in the provincial legislature Tuesday.....

http://business.financialpost.com/2012/03/27/ontario-hopes-deep-budget-c...


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

NDPP wrote:

Ultimately, the banksters will steal everything that's not nailed down and drain us all dry as hay. People had better disabuse themselves of illusions of benign democracy and prepare to defend against raids against our common assets. The Rating agencies like S&P are with the raiding parties, as is Drummond, Hudak, McGuinty and Horwath if not firmly managed by an aware and motivated citizenry.

 

Bob Rae's NDP had the province on-track for balanced budgets way back in 1994.

Bay Street didn't like that so they backed a number of stooges since Mike Harris.

What we have today in Ontario is "wealth creation" neoliberal style. The new business plan is not pouring concrete for footings of new factories or putting people to work. The neo/new business plan says:

debt = wealth creation

McGuinty spends more on debt service charges than on economic development, post-secondary education, or transportation.

Bay Street loves debt, and public debt is considered premium debt. Bay Street loves our two fiscal Frankenstein parties because Orwellian wealth creation in Ontario is in high gear since Harris-Flaherty and Pinocchio McGuinty. And then there are the Harpers sinking us further into debt at the national level. 

This country's economy should be booming with all of the unparalleled natural resource wealth at their disposal and being exported to other countries sans value-added. But that's not what our corrupt stooges were hired for. No. Because in neoliberal Canada the new business plan is this:

debt = wealth creation. And it is Orwellian. They want to eventually force Canadians into the situation that Greece is experiencing today. They want an international banking cabal to be able to walk in the Canada and scoop-up everything that's worth anything. In the end, banks and foreign capital will own Canada not Canaidans. We are already renters in our own land. But it will get worse, much worse if we don't do something about our fiscal Frankensteins in the two old line parties. They want giving the heave-ho but good.


Life, the unive...
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Joined: Mar 23 2007

Freedom 55 wrote:

Boom Boom wrote:

Andrea has clout and shouldn't be afraid to use it.

 

What clout does she have now? Prior to yesterday's vote she had clout, but she has demonstrated that she is afraid to use it.

Sure glad you and a few others were never at the negotiation table for my union.  We would have been on strike every year and would never gained a single thing.  Instead by incremental improvement after incremental improvement we had a living wage, good benefits and health and saftey coverage.   


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

Don't bother, Life. They refuse to tell us what the real consequences of losing an election to the very neoliberal Tories would have produced for the poor and unemployed in Ontario. They have more faith in worstpastthepost than we do, that's for damned sure.


Rebecca West
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Joined: Nov 28 2001

Bottom line, there's nothing in this budget for us.


Boom Boom
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Joined: Dec 29 2004

Are there any votes of confidence on social policy issues coming up in Ontario where the ONDP might have some influence?


M. Spector
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Joined: Feb 19 2005

There are plenty of them. But the NDP will have no influence at all unless they are prepared to desert the Koalition government and vote down the Liberal wing (which they aren't).

A month ago, Horwath might have been believed if she had said the NDP would vote against the budget if McGuinty didn't make major concessions. Now, however, nobody would believe her.


Boom Boom
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Joined: Dec 29 2004

Well, compromising on social policy issues should be easier for McQuinty than on the budget. No?


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

I think Hudak wanted an election so as to delay the province's plan to deal with the debt. That would utlimately have aided the bond rating agencies in saying:

Hey look! Political instability and nothing doing on the debt side. Let's lower their credit rating so that Ontario will have to pay more in whopping debt service charges!

debt = wealth creation

It's a surer thing than their neoliberal economies and a lot like shooting fish in a barrel.


M. Spector
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Joined: Feb 19 2005

Boom Boom wrote:

Well, compromising on social policy issues should be easier for McQuinty than on the budget. No?

Not if they cost money.

The whole point of the budget was the cutbacks and freezes on social programs. McGuilty vowed he would not give Andrea Horwath another penny in new spending for social programs, and he remained true to his word.


Boom Boom
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Joined: Dec 29 2004

I'm quite far removed from the situation there, but I'm still wondering how the membership of the ONDP feel about all this. I can't see the membership being happy if Andrea rolls over on any further issues such as social policy where she holds the deciding vote in matters of confidence. If she does, wouldn't there be a caucus revolt or leadership review?


Aristotleded24
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Joined: May 24 2005

Doug wrote:

M. Spector wrote:

And here's what you were voting for, whether you knew it or not. I guess you're OK with that. I suspect a lot of others who voted NDP, however, will be disappointed with our new Liberal-NDP Majority Government™.

 

The first progressive tax increase since 1993? I'll take it.

Manitoba has had an NDP government for 13 years. Where is our progressive tax increase?


Life, the unive...
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Joined: Mar 23 2007

You'd bankrupt the strike fund in no time.  Must be nice to live in this fantasyland bubble that there is no consequences to actions or demands.  You can just demand, demand, demand and expect someone else will pay.  


Boom Boom
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Joined: Dec 29 2004

There's a strike fund? Laughing 

Seriously, if the provincial NDP are not prepared to act on behalf of the population - whether it's by being in government, or in holding the balance of power, then what's the fucking point?


Life, the unive...
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Joined: Mar 23 2007

They are doing exactly that Boom Boom.  But some expect to get everything in a single negotiation, and life never, ever works that way.


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

Aristotleded24 wrote:
Manitoba has had an NDP government for 13 years. Where is our progressive tax increase?

And you're stuck with probably the lowest cost of living in the country. What a heck hole is Manitoba.

Elect some Tories or Liberals, and then see what it costs. You'll be sorry guaranteed.


Doug
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Joined: Apr 17 2001

epaulo13 wrote:

Ontario hopes deep budget cuts will calm debt markets

This is a budget aimed at pleasing none, except Ontario’s creditors.

 

When the budget relies on borrowing money (and it's going to for a while, since cutting back by $15 billion in one year would be a disaster), guess whose interests become important to satisfy? 


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

Doug wrote:

epaulo13 wrote:

Ontario hopes deep budget cuts will calm debt markets

This is a budget aimed at pleasing none, except Ontario’s creditors.

 

When the budget relies on borrowing money (and it's going to for a while, since cutting back by $15 billion in one year would be a disaster), guess whose interests become important to satisfy? 

 

Yes I agree. And creditors love to lend to countries with millions of co-signers to the debt, like Greece. And then a regime for economic medications begins at some point. Next thing we know they will be saying no to a referendum on whether to accept more economic medicine from their excellent friends in banking and finance. Salivating jackals waiting in the wings would just love for them to hack-off pieces of our health care and public infrastructure and have it tossed it to them. When people say there is nothing in this budget for us, I think they may not understand where the neoliberal agenda is headed. 

We don't have to be a bankrupt province and country. We don't have to have things run into the ground by fiscal Frankensteins. We don't have to become a larger version of Greece or Ireland down the road. We don't have to march ourselves down this road to serfdom waiting for the perfect revolution to present itself to us on some sunny morn', or that one which will never happen.


janfromthebruce
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Joined: Apr 24 2007

Well, I am part of the NDP membership and I sure didn't want an election. BB, the Liberals are short 1 seat so it's a razor minority. And like others have mentioned, Hudak could have won for just not being the liberals and boy it would have been harris loser years all over again.

In education, it was literally a nightmare. Personally, I think the NDP made a smart move, increase strength and popularity to fight the war in the future and to win. Remember, in the Art of Warfare, war is the last tactic of winning.


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004


epaulo13
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Joined: Dec 13 2009

Doug wrote:

epaulo13 wrote:

Ontario hopes deep budget cuts will calm debt markets

This is a budget aimed at pleasing none, except Ontario’s creditors.

 

When the budget relies on borrowing money (and it's going to for a while, since cutting back by $15 billion in one year would be a disaster), guess whose interests become important to satisfy? 

..it is my contention that when you see the financial sector and debt as legit you've already lost. austerity is a downward spiral. make cuts = doward pressure on the economy = more cuts. there is no end to this bottomless road to untold misery. this isn't about good polititians bad polititians but allowing the puppet masters to play the political puppets. this also is not just about ont. you need to have some kind of analysis of what is happening globally. the only govs that don't jump to capital demands are some latin american countries and that is because their populations are activated.


Life, the unive...
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Joined: Mar 23 2007

I'm going to try your theory and not pay off my loans next month.  I am sure the credit union will understand.


epaulo13
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Joined: Dec 13 2009

..i've tried your theroy of voting ndp for years and find in the end they adopt neoliberal agendas.


Life, the unive...
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Joined: Mar 23 2007

That's right paying your bills is soooo neo-liberal.  We can discuss all you want about why those bills are there, and I will likely agree with all of them, but the reality is those bills are now there.  There are consequences to trying to spend more than is collected, both for workers and for the economy as a whole and not paying those bills.  The damage to the most vulnerable in our province would be exponential even compared to this bad budget or the Harris years.  Pretending there is no cost to just not paying is positively foolish.  Financial responsible government isn't new, even if we haven't had one for some time.  Perhaps you should do some reading on what faced Tommy Douglas when the CCF became the government in Sask.  


Freedom 55
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Joined: Mar 14 2010

Life, the universe, everything wrote:

But some expect to get everything in a single negotiation

Maybe so, but no one in these threads.


Life, the unive...
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Joined: Mar 23 2007

Oh BS.  You have repeatedly claimed that the ONDP should be demanding this and demanding that.  As if all you have to do to get something in a negotiation postion is demand it.  Try that defender of the working class and see how long your members would put up with the consequence of that approach.  In any labour negotiation you have you bottom line and your issues you can live with going back to again next time out.   The ONDP obviously had a wealth tax (something that is surprising to win in this climate and against all the odds) and improvements in childcare and social assistance and disability payments.  Is it everything they would have liked, no, but are they the best they could likely get at this point, seems so.  Anyone who thinks this is the end of the issues the NDP is going to go at is fooling themself.


Freedom 55
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Joined: Mar 14 2010

Yes, Life... ITT "this" and "that" = "everything".  


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