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Alberta should be penalized for tar sands development and Quebec for asbestos production

Boom Boom
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Joined: Dec 29 2004

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Boom Boom
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Joined: Dec 29 2004

Rather than endlessly criticizing these two provinces for their crimes against the environment and human health, why not just get on with it and come up with suitable punishments? There's a lot of international condemnation against both the tar sands and asbestos production. Isn't there a world body capable of rendering judgement on these matters?


M. Spector
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Joined: Feb 19 2005

Apart from tactical missile strikes by an international "humanitarian intervention" force or indicting their premiers in the International Criminal Court, the only punishment that can effectively be implemented is financial and trade sanctions.

Such as freezing Alberta and Quebec's bank accounts, withholding payments from them, setting up a no-fly zone to prevent goods going in or coming out, imposing visa requirements on all their citizens, and boarding ships at sea that are headed for Montreal or Fort McMurray.


bagkitty
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Ah, that is something I would dearly love to see, an ocean going ship capable of "docking" in Fort McMurray. Pray tell, is this a flying boat, or does it have catepillar treads to cross Manitoba and Saskatchewan on the way to Fort Mac?


Boom Boom
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Laughing


M. Spector
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Joined: Feb 19 2005

It looks like this:


bagkitty
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Joined: Aug 27 2008

And that made it across an ocean? Damn, I thought it would have been swamped by the first real wave it ran into.

And not to question your integrity or anything, but I doubt that is really Manitoba or Saskatchewan.... not enough black flies or mosquitos (and since there is greenery on the trees, don't try telling me it was too early in the season).


Policywonk
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bagkitty wrote:

And that made it across an ocean? Damn, I thought it would have been swamped by the first real wave it ran into.

And not to question your integrity or anything, but I doubt that is really Manitoba or Saskatchewan.... not enough black flies or mosquitos (and since there is greenery on the trees, don't try telling me it was too early in the season).

They had steamboats on the Athabasca River, but the rapids on the Slave River near Fort Smith were impassible. I don't think they could be considered ocean-going though.


bagkitty
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Yeah, I think M. Spector is just having a nostalgic interlude... back to the day when there were still repetory cinemas and Fitzcaraldo was ground breaking. Wink


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

You mean Port McMurray?


6079_Smith_W
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Joined: Jun 10 2010

Sadly, that happened in real life here in Saskatchewan:

http://www.chrystene.com/sisu/htmls/sukanen.htm  

 


kropotkin1951
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Joined: Jun 6 2002

Lets not forget to penalize and sanction Saskatchewan for its uranium industry.  After all we know the stuff they produce is the main ingredient for WMD's. 

BC's fish farms are another area where maybe some international sanctions might help.  As well all the provinces engaged in fracking will need to be taught the lessons of international justice.  A no fly zone is required immediately over the skies of Comox and any RCAF plane caught flying should immediately be shot down.


Boom Boom
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Just wanted to get a discussion started... had no idea it would deteriorate so fast. Innocent


6079_Smith_W
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Joined: Jun 10 2010

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Lets not forget to penalize and sanction Saskatchewan for its uranium industry. 

Yup. 

That shit is being pushed on three fronts - mining, power plants, and waste dumps. 

And unfortunately it is an issue which cuts across party lines. Although the current government says they are not promoting it, there is a lot of money being offered to towns and First Nations to accept a dump.

 


kropotkin1951
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Joined: Jun 6 2002

It was my first disappointment with the Romanow NDP.  The first convention after the 1992 win Roy lead a nasty floor fight to beat back environmentalist and some FN's leaders when a moratorium on uranium development was proposed at the policy convention.He had the Steelworkers on his side and a handful of FN's leaders representing a minority of the affected FN's.

Shortly after that I stopped being the President of Janice's constituency because while I unlike others knew her well and expected her to be fiscally conservative I also expected her and the party to be environmentally conservationist. 


Boom Boom
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Joined: Dec 29 2004

I wonder if 'environmental sanctions' are observed anywhere against countries or cities that wage war on the environment? I opened this thread to hopefully get a discussion going on the subject.

Didn't the UK consider some form of sanction against Alberta tar sands oil?


6079_Smith_W
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Joined: Jun 10 2010

Exactly. 

It cuts across more than party lines:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/story/2009/04/09/bruce-power-...

If you want to pick one big culprit though, that would be Cameco. They have weaseled their way into everything in this province.

 


kropotkin1951
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Joined: Jun 6 2002

bagkitty wrote:

Ah, that is something I would dearly love to see, an ocean going ship capable of "docking" in Fort McMurray. Pray tell, is this a flying boat, or does it have catepillar treads to cross Manitoba and Saskatchewan on the way to Fort Mac?

Quote:

July, 2006


Northern Transportation Company Limited sails tug to Fort MacKay, Alberta
Fort MacKay, Alberta, July 17, 2006 - Northern Transportation Company Limited is very pleased to announce the arrival of the company’s tug the NT Marjory at Fort MacKay, Alberta on Friday, July 14, 2006.
The NT Marjory sailed from Hay River, Northwest Territories, traveling along the southern shore of Great Slave Lake to the Slave River, south on the Slave River to Lake Athabasca and then south on the Athabasca River to Fort MacKay.
The landing of the NT Marjory at Fort Mackay represents a significant shift in the focus on logistical planning that faces companies holding oilsands leases in the Fort McMurray region. Companies can now consider the northern water route as a strategic transportation option when planning the design, manufacture and delivery of equipment, modules and large fabrication components for oilsands projects or for mining projects in northeastern Alberta.

Look at a map and stop thinking in southern terms.  Canada is sea to sea to sea.

http://www.ntcl.com/

http://www.fortmckaygroup.com/


Boom Boom
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Joined: Dec 29 2004

"The landing of the NT Marjory at Fort Mackay represents a significant shift in the focus on logistical planning that faces companies holding oilsands leases in the Fort McMurray region. Companies can now consider the northern water route as a strategic transportation option when planning the design, manufacture and delivery of equipment, modules and large fabrication components for oilsands projects or for mining projects in northeastern Alberta."

I wonder how Alberta's northern neighbours - those who will be  affected -  feel about this development.


kropotkin1951
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Joined: Jun 6 2002

Boom Boom wrote:

I wonder how Alberta's northern neighbours - those who will be  affected -  feel about this development.

They own NTCL.

Quote:

NTCL is proud to be an aboriginal-owned company. We are the founding company of the NorTerra Inc. group of companies, owned by the Inuvialuit Development Corporation and Nunasi Corporation, which also owns Canadian North, Weldco Companies, Braden Burry Expediting and Northern Industrial Sales.


Boom Boom
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Joined: Dec 29 2004

oops! Embarassed


tmcd2011
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Joined: Nov 24 2011

Both of these are serious, damaging and damning issues. The tarsands are way to expensive to be economical and are environmental disaster (i wonder if you can see that great splotch from space). Still the feds and Alberta pour billions into 'sustainably' develop this 'huge' resource. Enbridge is proposing a twin pipeline to carry that would be oil through Alberta across the mountains to Kitimat, BC, which is located near well-known treacherous waters. But somehow it's safe for super tankers. Good trick. (see northern gateway, Enbridge pipelines, EnPipe Line Project)

Both the feds and the Quebec government ike to make the differentiation between chrysoltile asbestos, which Quebec mines, and other forms of asbestos. Chrysoltile being of course safe for use in human dwellings and the latter dangerous. But Chrysotile is banned most everywhere, has been criticized by the Canadian Cancer Society and the Canadian Medical Association and a large number of international organizations. Still the feds try to sell as safe. One particularly dough-headed scientist wrote that even dinosaurs breathed some of this asbestos. Last time I looked dinosaurs were oil (see above). Fortunately, as far as I know, only 1 asbestos mine continues to operate as one went bankrupt in January I believe.

The issue of uranium mining in Saskatchewan is probably more important now than asbestos, but I don't know that much about it. Also a major issue are the Ekati and Diavik diamond mines in the Northwest Territories, which are immense projects producing what are reputed to be some of the finest in the world. When a company like DeBeers joins the party, the fun is just starting The federal government is a keen supporter. Here's a lovely photo of the Ekati mine and how it blends so innocuously into the landscape. Reminds me of a Kurt Vonnegut novel.

It seems to me that it is the federal government that needs to be held accountable as well as the provinicial and territorial governments. It also seems to that our country deserves to be sanctioned by anyone with an environmental conscious and that collectively we should get real story of these kinds of projects onto the top of the national agenda. 


Boom Boom
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Joined: Dec 29 2004

I've seen photos from space online from NASA of not only the tar sands but also the tailings ponds, some of which are 12 square kilometers in size and larger. Surprised I have a link to one of these somewhere in my files if you want me to dig it out sometime (probably easier just to gooogle NASA tar sands or NASA tar sands tailings ponds). I also saw photos from that NASA scientist who spoke about the tar sands very recently.

ps: you're right on about uranium mining - I should have added that to the thread title!!!


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