babble is rabble.ca's discussion board but it's much more than that: it's an online community for folks who just won't shut up. It's a place to tell each other — and the world — what's up with our work and campaigns.
Time for a new NDP Leader in Alberta
April 26, 2012 - 11:14am
;;
Come on now, he did his best but it came up short, and now it is time to move on, and let someone else get a kick at the can
NDP leader vow to continue fighthttp://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/alberta-politics/6521145/story.html
really, I disagree. He increased the seat count and maintianed vote share in an election where a ton of strategic voting happened for the PCs to prevent an wild rose win.
He's also one of only 2 NDP leaders who have ever led the Alberta NDP to more than 2 seats.
I think it's ridiculous to suggest the Alberta NDP needs a Leadership change.
In the 1986 election, under Ray Martin, the party, now known as the "NDs," won almost 30% of the vote and 16 seats
In the 2012 election the NDs results of a lowly 10% of the vote, and only 4 seats, were pitiful, particularly with the federal orange wave wind at their backs, so it is now time for a change at the top.
Perhaps Rachel Notley might consider it.
Could someone else have done better? Possibly, but I think it would have been tough. With a centrist Conservative party running against a hard-right Wildrose Party that looked for all the world like it was about to be elected to office, strategic voting became a big deal.
You know, I am actually feeling disgusted with NPs uppity way of bashing this leader. If this is the "new & modernized" and improved & energized NDP under Mulcair I want nothing to do with it. It's sure not the way Jack Layton would talk. So full of oneself and one's self importance - pride before the fall.
Jftb
As you well know this has nothing to do with Mulcair and it is way past time for you to stop being a poor loser about Mulcair's victory.
i know almost nothing about AB ND's but I like Brian from what I've seen of him on AB TV. and i know only a little more about national politics. so for what it's worth it seems to me turning this tangent of 1 poster into a rant about Mulcair is more than a bit iffy.
The difference with 1986 is that a lot of that vote was because there was literally no one else to vote for. The Liberals, only 2 years removed from Trudeau? The Western Canada Concept? The Representative Party? There were only 2 parties that even ran full slates. And even then, they were still 22.2% behind the PCs.
NorthReport; I believe you will find the ANDP practice is not to "feast on our own". I think Brian and the campaign team deserve our appreciation for the gains that were made and holding our vote fast in the face of the media's attempts to drive the entire population to accept an either PC or WRP scenario. It is unfortunate that seats were not gained outside of the Edmonton area, but inroads were made in the popular vote, especially in the deep south (Lethbridge). Calls for a replacement are more than a little premature.
bk
When I called for Carole James to step down as BC Leader I ran into the same arguments. The problem in BC is that there was no review of James' performance, as she and her entourage managed to skuttle that.
And seeing Mason's comments that he is going to stay on without first being subject to a review is wrong, wrong, wrong.
Actually, I agree that Mason is very unlikely to take them to the next level
Thank you Bag Kitty. Exactly how I feel.
And my beef with NP is exactly what is happening here with this topic - "when I asked for Carole...." I personally find the ego-filled puffed up importance of what is being said because of what one poster thinks of themselves as so self important that any difference of opinion is met with complete contempt.
I like the ALNDP leader. How about getting off the high horse of self importance on everything NDP.
There's a difference. Carole James had failed to move the BC NDP forward in spite of the unpopularity of the then-Campbell government, while Brian Mason actually doubled the Alberta NDP seat count.
What did you expect Mason to say? Unless they step aside, that's what leaders generally say. The leadership review will happen as a matter of course anyways.
The legitimate issue that has been obscured is that after 8 years, Mason may of his own volition decide he's had enough anyways, and that's a fair point of discussion. But NorthReport, the way you just barged in saying "Mason has to go because he did so badly" really puts people's backs against the wall and doesn't really encourage productive discussion. You might want to think about toning it down a notch, or working on your presentation skills.
I think that the only way Mason would step down would be if Notley wanted to take over from him, but she has very young children may not want to so the job is essentially Brian Mason's by default
If Brian Mason step down in few years later, And i'd like to see Deron Bilous is will be next Alberta NDP Leader.
Small detail that Rachel Notley, nor anyone else except Brian Mason, does not want to be Leader now.
North Report can hop over to Alberta and show them how.
So according to the OP, Layton should have been chucked after he didnt win the first federal election he was leader in? Or everyone after that?
The analogy between Mason and James is, at best, questionable. Of course the incessant clamouring of potential
leadership candidatesconscriptees for what must surely be one of themostleast coveted NDP leadership positions in the country might have drowned this out.And therein lies the rub. I agree that Brian Mason should move on, but the NDP is probably somewhat afraid that no one wants the job. As Stockholm said, if Notley wanted the job, it would (already) be hers. Whoever the new leader is would also have little to no money to get their name out there. While Albertans may not have warmed to Mason, at least some know who he is!
For those more intimate with the history, was there a similar feeling about Howard Hampton as perennial ONDP leader?
My guess as to what will happen with Mason is he will stay on the job for the next two years then there will be a leadership race. The new leader will lead the NDP into the 2016 election.
Given the circumstances of this election, I don't know who could particularly have taken the NDP to a much better result than Mason did. Ray Martin in the 1980s was clearly an outlier in terms of the party's overall record in Alberta, and can be easily explained by factors outside of his direct control; by 1993 the party was wiped out again, and Martin himself has fallen short in almost every one of his subsequent provincial or federal re-election bids. And of all the leaders the party has had since Martin, Mason is the only one who has ever managed to get the party to four seats and official party status; under both Raj Pannu and Pam Barrett, the party topped out at two seats, and Ross Harvey never actually led the party into an election.
I realize that Rachel Notley is probably the obvious successor if and when Mason does decide to step down. But in a province that isn't generally very NDP-friendly outside of Edmonton, it's not at all clear that she could significantly outperform Mason in an actual election -- so I don't see it as something that needs to be actively pushed for immediately.
I'm clearly a late-comer to this discussion, but I thought I'd contribute something. It is true, as previous posters have noted, that AB NDs are very loathe to do in their leaders - an admirable trait they share with most other NDP sections in the country (BC being the notable exception).
That said, Alberta New Democrat leaders often also have this bad habit of staying on way past their best before date. Ray Martin did make history by bringing the Party to 16 seats in 1986, however he did not succeed in building on that success. Riding associations remained moribund, and little organization was done outside of Edmonton to expand the base. In the 1989 election, the Party was caught completely unprepared, and while our seat count remained constant, our popular vote slid precipitously through the campaign. We ended up getting fewer votes than the upstart Liberals under former Edmonton Mayor Laurence Decore. Had that campaign lasted another week, we'd have lost Official Opposition status.
Rather than taking that scare as his cue to pass the torch on to someone else (perhaps Vegreville MLA Derek Fox?), Ray stayed on for another 4 years, leading us to 0 seats and 8% of the vote in 1993. The party found itself stuck with a leadership race anyway, but with no elected MLAs to seek the job.
Given the fact that the Alberta NDs spent most of the last year around 20% in the polls and given the weakness of the Liberals, the result in this spring's provincial election was a disappointment. The popular vote did not grow, and the additional 2 seats won were largely due to more beneficial vote splits. It was certainly not an astounding result.
I see very little indication of Alberta catching Mason-mania in the next four years. Most of the progressives and enviros I know in the province are more than a bit ambivalent about his leadership. It is instructive to note that this was not the first time that Brian Mason succeeded in doubling our seat count: in 2004, the Party succeeded under Mason in winning 4 seats, only to have the caucus re-halved in 2008.
The Party is fortunate to have other potential leaders in David Eggen and Deron Bilous (I'm not sure if Notley wants it right now); better to rejuvenate the Party under fresh leadership now, than risk not having that option in 4 years.
I don't recall the Alberta NDs ever polling 20%, at best there were as high as 14 or 15%. There is no question that the NDP would have done better if the PCs had not swung wildly o the left (by their standards) and piked Redford as leader.
Sounds quite possible. Can we table this thread for two years?
They must have polled better than that in the 1980s with 16 seats and official opposition.
After three minutes of research I can say your recollection is wrong.
1986 and 1989 and 1944 for the CCF were over 20%. As well in 1949, 1978 and 1982 they polled over 15%.
http://www.electionalmanac.com/ea/alberta-popular-vote-results/
I was responding to a line in a earlier post that said the Alberta NDP had been polling at 20% for most of THE PAST YEAR - that is what i was disputing. i am well aware that the Alberta NDP was in the 20s or higher 25 years ago. But that was definietly not the case in the past year.