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Student strike against tuition hike #5

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Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

Bärlüer wrote:

An agreement has been reached. Infos to follow.

The student organizations will not be doing a press conference. Hmm.

I can't think or comment right now about the injuries to demonstrators, while the delegates were cheering Charest inside.

As for an agreement being reached, Nadeau-Dubois made a comment yesterday about no agreement being possible unless fees are not increased in fall 2012. I'll look for the exact quote - but it sounded like a signal that CLASSE might be prepared to end or suspend the strike if there were a postponement (or moratorium) of the hikes, while further talks continue. Maybe it's just my too-long union experience looking for cryptic messages. But the PQ had also previously called for the hikes to be cancelled at least for 2012.

Short of that, I can't imagine all the student organizations agreeing to stop the strike without declaring total surrender.

We shall see.


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

There's another demo going on right now in Victoriaville, at the Liberal general council. Estimates are 6-700 participants. You can see them arriving in the distance:


NorthReport
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Joined: Jul 6 2008

Our post-secondary school system is fucked big time, so it is no wonder the Cons are trying to bring in foreign-workers at lower wages. And of course this is not a racist policy. Sure it isn't.  Tongue out

Guidance counsellors in secondary schools are basically a waste of time. 

For a better future these students would be much better off going into the trades, at least for 90% of them. Where else will you be able to eventually earn $100,000 a year and have no school debts.

I do agree however that schooling should be free to the students and paid for out of general tax revenues. 

If young Canadians want to have a good future take a serious look at Germany. Now that is a country with a future.


epaulo13
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Joined: Dec 13 2009

..i wait with bated breath!

 

UQAM Sociologist Eric Pineault gives a message to Canada's anglophones

great video

UQAM Sociologist Eric Pineault's message to English Canada in regards to Quebec civil society uprising.

http://cutvmontreal.ca/videos/1102

Austerity can be fought !

quote:

One element that is new is the determination of the movement to continue on and on, even though day in day out columnists, editorialists and the media in general are supporting Charest’s position, publishing their supporters Op ed pieces calling for law and order, repression and painting the students as dangerous and violent terrorists. And this bullying is not working, the movement is evermore determined, and public opinion is less and less supportive of the government. This weekend will be a big test. The liberals are holding a strategic congress, which they have moved from Montreal to Victoriaville, a mid size town outside of the Monteal – Québec corridor. Hundred of buses have been reserved.

The pundits (like Margerat Wente’s ridiculous column this week, so Marie Antoinette….) have been predicting the implosion of the movement since March… they are so disconnected. The don’t understand the movement, nor the political culture that underpins it.

We are seeing a political rift in Québec society between those mobilized for change and a chummy and tired elite that is clinging to a model that people don’t believe in anymore. The students, some workers in the manufacturing sector, members of the northern communities, all are now mobilized against this government.


Bärlüer
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Joined: Aug 20 2007

The strike is not over yet. The "proposition", which all student groups apparently signed on, will be submitted to members. Details of the proposition will be made public at 8 PM. (Unless they leak out earlier...)

Good news: doctors no longer fear for the life of the student who was said to be between life and death. Nobody is in a coma.

Bad news: one student has definitely lost an eye.


cco
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Joined: Apr 25 2005
Nobody's saying what the offer is, and I can't tell if the student group leaders looked disappointed or just exhausted at their 20-second press statements (they've been negotiating for nearly 24 hours, apparently). I am confused and pessimistic. Not sure how they expect to keep it under embargo until this evening if they're presenting it to students, though.

epaulo13
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Joined: Dec 13 2009
..again with the boycott bullshit.
Quebec student leaders agree to end boycott

Quebec's education minister has confirmed that student leaders have reached a deal with the Quebec government to end the students' boycott of classes.

Quebec's four student groups, leading the fight against proposed university tuition fee hikes, have been in closed-door negotations in Quebec City with Education Minister Line Beauchamp and the head of the Treasury Board, Michelle Courchesne since 4:00 p.m. Friday.

So far no details of the agreement have been announced.

The announcement follows the news that one student suffered a serious eye injury as well as life-threatening head wounds during a demonstration in Victoriaville, Que. Friday night. He will need surgery. Another man is in hospital with non life-threatening head injuries....

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2012/05/05/students-group-t...


epaulo13
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Joined: Dec 13 2009
Protester severely injured in Quebec tuition riot outside Liberal convention

quote

A protester lost use of an eye after he was wounded in a savage riot in Quebec that broke out during a protest over tuition increases, health officials said Saturday.

The demonstrator is one of two young men admitted to hospital with serious injuries following the violent confrontation outside a Quebec Liberal Party convention in Victoriaville.

The other man was admitted with fractures to his face and skull, along with a cerebral contusion.

A local health official, Josee Simoneau, also said Saturday that a woman was also hit in the face suffering serious injury.

In all, nine people were taken to hospital, including three police officers.

Quebec provincial police made 109 arrests in connection with the riot _ many of them after pulling over school buses that were returning late Friday to Montreal.

Nicole Lamy, a 51-year-old mother with two children who are taking part in the protests, blamed the escalation of violence on Premier Jean Charest's government.

``It's very sad to see this happen,'' she said. ``The contempt this government has shown students...''

Quebec provincial police, meanwhile, pointed the finger at a small number of people who chose to stick around after things turned violent.

``We never lost control,'' Capt. Jean Finet said at a Saturday news conference.

``Most of the people who didn't want that kind of thing to happen, they left.''

The Liberals moved their convention to Victoriaville from Montreal to try to get away from the protests rocking Quebec.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/protester-severely-injured-in-qu...


epaulo13
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Conflit étudiant: une entente est conclue

(QUÉBEC) Une entente de principe pour dénouer le conflit étudiant a été convenue entre Québec et les quatre associations étudiantes, a annoncé le gourvernement samedi.

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/dossiers/conflit-etudiant/201205/05/01...

google translate:

(QUEBEC) A tentative agreement to resolve the conflict student has been agreed between Quebec and the four student associations, Governement announced Saturday.

The representatives of the Quebec Federation of University Students (FEUQ), the Quebec Federation of College Students (FECQ), the Coalition off the Association for Student Labor Solidarity (CLASS) and the Table de concertation du Québec student (TACEQ) have all signed the agreement.

"To end the current conflict, we arrived at common ground between all parties involved. I salute the friendly nature of the exchanges that took place during the last hour, "said Ms. Beauchamp, in the press release issued by the government.

Student leaders refuse to disclose the contents of the government's offer. The striking students will vote on the bid meeting.

The main union leaders, Réjean Parent (CSQ), Louis Roy (CSN) and Michel Arsenault (FTQ), which were around the table, were satisfied.

President of the Federation of CEGEPs, Jean Beauchesne, who also attended the meeting, provides a return to classes of students who are on strike.

There are currently 164,508 students and college students on 485 832 on strike.

More details to come.


Bärlüer
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Joined: Aug 20 2007

There are rumors flying around that (a portion of...?) the hike would be maintained but "compensated" by a reduction in ancillary fees ("frais afférents").

ETA: yep, this seems more and more likely. I wonder what the details are—I'm told a certain "devil" lies there. Really doesn't seem like it's a given that this is going to be accepted.

The thing is, however, that ancillary fees vary widely from one institution to the other. And often, they don't come close to reaching the 1778 number... We'll see.

ETA2: new rumor: on top of that, a 6-month moratory. Now this makes more sense.


cco
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Joined: Apr 25 2005
I figured I could judge the quality of the offer by how smug Beauchamp looked at her conference. To me, she looked on the shaken side, but maybe that's just exhaustion.

abnormal
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Joined: Aug 18 2001

This is a real question.  Not a troll.  I just received an email from someone very senior in my Canadian operation.  His question was very simple.  "How do I know who was involved in this mess or do I simply have to refuse to hire anyone that is/was a student in Quebec this year?" 

Wish this was a joke but it isn't.


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

abnormal wrote:
"How do I know who was involved in this mess or do I simply have to refuse to hire anyone that is/was a student in Quebec this year?"

Fair question. Tell him the safest course is to refuse to hire any current Québec students. No matter where they stand on the tuition issue, they all hate shitheads and are prone to sabotaging their operations.

 


abnormal
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Joined: Aug 18 2001

Unionist, you seem to think this is a bit of a joke.  Fact is, this was a real question from a major Canadian employer.

And I'm not sure if these students have thought about what their actions mean to the students behind them.  Since they (or at least the ones who are participating in this) won't complete their year, what happens to positions for students who are trying to gain entrance.  Or doen't they count?


epaulo13
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Joined: Dec 13 2009

Amir Khadir, MNA, speaks to Russia Today concerning the student movement in Quebec.

live

http://cutvmontreal.ca/broadcasts/2012/5/5


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

abnormal wrote:

Unionist, you seem to think this is a bit of a joke.  Fact is, this was a real question from a major Canadian employer.

That's what worries me. It augurs poorly for the Canadian economy, having major employers who are driven by prejudice and ignorance.

Quote:
And I'm not sure if these students have thought about what their actions mean to the students behind them.

That's the amazing thing about this movement. Many thousands of the strikers will be affected very little, or in some cases not at all, by the fee hikes, given the phasing over five years. The main beneficiaries of a victorious strike will be future cohorts of students who are now in high school or younger. The sheer selfless determination of the students is one of the most inspiring features of this movement. I can see how that would instil confusion and even fear in those who live only for themselves and who see society as their enemy.



Freedom 55
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Joined: Mar 14 2010

Unionist wrote:

That's the amazing thing about this movement. Many thousands of the strikers will be affected very little, or in some cases not at all, by the fee hikes, given the phasing over five years. The main beneficiaries of a victorious strike will be future cohorts of students who are now in high school or younger. The sheer selfless determination of the students is one of the most inspiring features of this movement. I can see how that would instil confusion and even fear in those who live only for themselves and who see society as their enemy.

 

Hell, yeah!


Freedom 55
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Joined: Mar 14 2010

And please... let's dispense with trying to paint one of the most inspiring mass movements that this continent has seen in decades as selfish.


Freedom 55
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Joined: Mar 14 2010

Bärlüer wrote:

There are rumors flying around that (a portion of...?) the hike would be maintained but "compensated" by a reduction in ancillary fees ("frais afférents").

 

http://1625canepassepas.ca/2012/05/resultats-des-negociations-la-feuq-so...


Freedom 55
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Joined: Mar 14 2010

http://www.mcgilldaily.com/2012/05/quebec-government-submits-new-offer-t...

Quote:

The Quebec government said it would not reduce the impending tuition hikes set to and maintains its offer made on April 27. The offer would see tuition increased by $254 each year for seven years, resulting in a total increase of $1,778. However, the amount students pay would be offset by a reduction in ancillary fees.

From fall 2012 onwards, a hike of $127 per semester – amounting to $254 per year – would be offset by a reduction of $127 in ancillary fees per semester.

According to Martine Desjardins, the FEUQ president, ancillary fees consists of 20 per cent of students fees. She cited McGill students as paying around $1,000 a year in ancillary fees as an example.

To reach the offset, the government is to create a provisional council to look into ways of reducing university spending. The money that will be reduced by the council will be reinvested into universities to reduce student contribution. A permanent council is also to be established.

“We’re saying that it’s possible to free up billions and billions of dollars, and that money will be reinvested into students.” said Léo Bureau-Blouin, the president of FEUC.

“But the strike is not over. It’s going to be up to students to decide whether or not to accept the offer,” he added.


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

Here's an interpretation, along with links to images of the leaked document, which is troubling, inasmuch as it suggests that the actual document which the student reps signed was different from the understanding they had reached. If accurate, this would mean that the annual "savings" returned to students could not exceed the annual amount of "frais afférents", or non-tuition fees, which are said to average between $500 and $800 per year. That would mean that after 2 or 3 years, the annual fee increases (which are unchanged from Charest's announcement last week) would exceed the maximum possible savings returnable to students - even if the actual savings generated by improvement university management were potentially much higher.

Here it is (in French) along with links to the document:

Offre du 5 mai: Seulement 550$ de réduction possible?

Where's Bärlüer, or anyone else who cares to weigh in??


epaulo13
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Joined: Dec 13 2009
..don't know about the numbers but they've gained some control over university spending..in a good way. eta: the issue of the gov raising taxes of corps to pay may be for another day. the next election should prove interesting now that the students kicked open the austerity issue in a mind blowing way.
Pact would offset tuition increase Student assemblies to vote on offer The three main leaders of Quebec’s 12-week tuition strike explained Saturday night that the tentative agreement they reached with the government calls for creation of a “provisional council’” that would review spending by universities, turning over the savings the council finds to reduce extra fees that students pay on top of their tuition fees.

In the first year the offer calls for reducing extra fees by $127, while the two sides work on transforming the provisional council into a permanent council, with an ongoing mandate to review university spending and to return 100 per cent of the savings back to students.

Extra fees in Quebec universities average $537 a year, and the students estimate they will rise to $900 as the $1,778 tuition hike, which they would agree to as part of the settlement, is implemented.

“The strike does not end,” said Léo Bureau-Blouin, adding, “there will be no recommendation” to students on whether to accept the offer.....

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Pact+would+offset+tuition+increase/6573471/story.html#ixzz1u3d5acSj

Boom Boom
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Joined: Dec 29 2004

The tentative agreement doesn't really amount to much as far as I can see, unless there's more than has been publicly released so far. I don't see any movement to abolishing tuition fees altogether, which some have argued would be possible if the government had its priorities right. I was hoping for the Quebec students to set the precedent which would eventually spread aceross Canada. I guess that'll remain just a dream for now. Frown


epaulo13
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Joined: Dec 13 2009
@CUTVnews – Through the smoke at Victoriaville

video

106 arrested in the most violent police intervention since the beginning of the strike.

After 4 hours of a demonstration that saw the SQ severely injure four demonstrators, one fighting for his life and another that lost an eye, CUTV and the Students left the town.

Three buses of students returning from the protest were later stopped en-route to Montreal and returned to Victoriaville. The passengers were processed by the SQ, receiving charges of illegal assembly and rioting, finally returning to Montreal in the late morning.

http://cutvmontreal.ca/videos/1127


epaulo13
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Joined: Dec 13 2009

Young children join a protest on May 5, 2012 in Victoriaville, Quebec, where the province's Liberal party is holding its annual convention.


epaulo13
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Joined: Dec 13 2009
Manifestation à Victoriaville - 4 mai 2012

video

http://www.universitv.tv/archives/1547

 


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

Another take (very negative) on the substance of the "offer" or "agreement" (whichever it is):

Résumé de l'offre du 5 mai 2012

 


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

Jean-François Lisée has put together pages 2-5 of the "agreement", as photographed by Antoine Robitaille of Le Devoir, who has his own explanatory article here.

It's not really my place to comment on the quality of the content. Students have been waging a courageous and self-sacrificing struggle, and the decision will be up to them. I should note, though, that the Twitterverse is running very heavily against, but I've seen "silent majorities" quietly develop in cases similar to this. We will see what people have to say in the hours and (few) days to come.


Bärlüer
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Joined: Aug 20 2007

Why does Martine Desjardins say this:

Quote:
Martine Desjardins, présidente de la FEUQ, estime qu'il sera «facile» de dénicher des économies équivalentes aux 125$ ajoutés par session pendant sept ans (254 $ par année, 1778 dollars au total) par le plan du gouvernement Charest de hausse des droits de scolarité.

First, even assuming that:

- the Conseil provisoire (which is composed of a majority of members who, a priori, as a matter of principle, are favorable to raising student contributions [11 against 8]) agrees on the savings to be made;

- the Minister agrees to implement on the recommandation of the Conseil provisoire (it is a "recommandation");

the savings that are to be deducted from the mandatory institutional (or ancillary) fees are limited by the ceiling of what those ancillary fees are. So there is no possible universe, even accounting for an eventual increase over the years in ancillary fees that would comply with government regulations, in which the entirety of the tuition fees hike can be compensated by an equivalent decrease in ancillary fees. (I note in passing that the mechanism by which the savings are to be deducted from the ancillary fees is only formally envisioned for Fall 2012. I assume the understanding is that the exercise of "finding" the savings/deducting them from the ancillary fees would only be done once.)

The other question is, how is this going to work, concretely? Suppose the Conseil provisoire agrees on a shitload of savings—say 1000$. Are McGill students, who have (some of?) the highest ancillary fees going to benefit more from the exercise than UQ students, who pay much lower ancillary fees? That seems so insanely inequitable as to not make any sense.

I think that the agreement is actually mostly intended to push back the issue so that it becomes a post-electoral matter.


epaulo13
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Joined: Dec 13 2009

Bärlüer

..who makes up this council, please? do you have a link to it?


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