Simon Fraser University looking to open "safe space" for men
And they're getting 30K to do it...
Last Wednesday, the financial and administrative services committee for the Simon Fraser Student Society unanimously passed a recommendation that approximately $30,000 be put aside for the creation of a men’s centre. Treasurer Keenan Midgley initiated the project. He told The Peak that the proposed center is meant to be a space where men can discuss issues that might arise in their undergraduate careers at SFU.“There are a number of issues that men face that they don’t really feel comfortable talking about in a formal setting. Whether it’s dealing with alcoholism, drugs, or an abusive relationship. Whether it’s themselves who are in it or emotionally not being able to cope with things,” said Midgley. Instead of a formal venue, such as the walk-in clinic in the Maggie Benson Centre, Midgley thought that a place where men can “bounce ideas off each other” would be more beneficial.
Midgley also brought up the fact that suicide rates are higher among men than women. According to the B.C. coroner’s report from 2008 and 2009, males accounted for approximately 75 per cent of suicide deaths in B.C. The World Health Organization has stated that this gender disparity is observed nearly worldwide.
“Men’s health issues are a serious matter that hasn’t been taken very seriously until recently. The approach won’t necessarily be the same as those for women,” said Martin Mroz, SFU’s director of health and counselling services in an email to The Peak.
Although the women’s centre’s coordinator declined to be interviewed, skepticism of the concept is evident in the centre’s FAQs. “Where is the men’s centre?” says a line atop that section of its website. “The simple answer is that the men’s centre is everywhere else,” it reads, before a paragraph that explains the justification for the women’s centre. Canadian society is “a man’s world,” female voices are oppressed in classes, and women feel threatened by drunken males at night, it reads. The website lists support for the idea of a “male allies project” that would “bring self-identified men together to talk about masculinity and its harmful effects.” Masculinity, it says, “denigrates women by making them into sexual objects, is homophobic, encourages violence, and discourages emotional expression.”...Still, it isn’t just the women’s centre that questions the funding. Joel Warren, who represents labour studies students on a council that advises the overall student society, says students should have been consulted before the budget went to the subcommittee for approval. “It was created top-down by fiat,” he says. Syeda Nayab Bukhari, a doctoral student in GSWS and user of the women’s centre, agrees. “There needs to be a proper needs assessment,” she says, adding that she’s concerned about how the centre would “incorporate race, class and gender.”
Will there be a separate room for white heterosexual males? They may have issues that they don't feel comfortable sharing with just any old men.
I should hope so, Unionist.
One thing that is rather remarkable is that there has been no planning on what the centre will entail, and no request by the student body for such a space. Essentially, the caucus is giving $30K for a lark.
i heard 'bout this 2 days ago. way to manipulate data. the highest suicide rate in BC is men. First Nations men.
this mans centre at SFU is goin to help FN men?
if it's a lark it's an offensive 1.
Excellent point, quizzical. I thought the suicide line was a red-herring, but it's much more insidious than that. Well spotted.
ya another insidious way to benefit those who don't need more benefits. the students at SFU are smarter than the gatekeepers who are pushing this waste.
I don't think I'd say this is for people who "don't need" these services, or that it's necessarily a waste.
I agree that it's still a little unclear exactly how they intend to use this space. The lack of detail does leave open the question of whether this will just be a glorified frat house. And the funding for this start-up project does seem disproporionate to the funding that the existing women's centre receives.
But this doesn't have to be seen as a zero-sum situation. Counselling and appropriate support can be very hard to find - for anyone. Emotional and psychological well-being for all is a feminist issue.
30,000 for a space to "bounce ideas off of each other'?
Hence:
I'm surprised that the student union doesn't have counselors available for students who need them. If the white boys are having trouble coping maybe they could just see a counselor. Imagine the horror of the formality of having to go a drop in clinic to get mental health care.
Women's centers were created to provide a SAFE space that was not male dominated. The frat boys on the Society executive are having a little giggle. One can only hope that they get shown the door at election time.
This is only for white boys? I missed that part in Catchfire's links.
If that's what this is about, then I agree with you.
Here is link to the clubs on campus. There is a club for pretty well everyone to get involved with based on their heritage except most white boys. I just presumed that they must be the ones that needed a place to feel comfortable. There are clubs for Germans and Italians, the execeptions that make it a rule. I also added links to the web pages of the clubs that have them.
http://www.sfss.ca/clubs_unions.html
http://www.sfu.ca/achsa/
http://www.sfucsu.com/
http://www.sfuia.blogspot.com/
That's what I thought.
Good to know you can engage in that activity. Have a nice day.
i went to their website to dig around. the treasurer in The Peak quote isn't the treasurer they list on their website. keenan midgley isn't to be found on their goverance list at their website.
http://www.sfss.ca/governance.html
we know he's an accounting student and jock. he's also a part of the lowest difficulty setting. he said no one came to him looking for a men's centre. he alone decided SFU needed 1. not only did he decide they need 1 he alone decided they get equal funding. then we've the maclean's article where SFU student Graham Templeton says no centres are needed at all 'cause women at SFU aren't marginalized. i think all us women needed to go live at SFU 'cause it is the only place in the world where we aren't. there's something wrong going on at SFU and it ain't healthy for SFU women.I have my moments.
He's listed as the chairperson and treasurer for both the Financial and Administrative Services Committee, as well as the Accessibility Fund Advisory Committee.
http://www.sfss.ca/Committees.html
i think our natural reaction to the terms "men's space" is to think of the "manly men" etc getting together to talk shit about everyone else. But that's not necessarily the case. There are a lot of men who don't fit the mold, who don't agree with traditional masculinity and if there's a space for them to talk about whatever issues they're dealing with that can be a good thing.
i mean, the general reaction that "men" are one homogenous group seems to prove that. What about sexuality issues, body image, power dynamics, physical violence, sexism, homophobia etc. There's a lot of things men should be talking about with each other but aren't.
@ milo204
Not just the manly men (though I expect they are more likely to be at the bar, watching the game). I think the spectre of right-wing, anti-feminist "men's rights" groups raises a lot more red flags.
Or worse.... Promise Keepers.
As for what is going on here, I haven't a clue. Sounds okay in theory, but my first question is whether there is actually a group and a need, or whether this was just something someone thought was a good idea. And I am assuming 30K includes room space, because it does seem like a bundle for a project that is clearly speculative.
And the article mentions that men are less likely to go and seek counselling; is there any reason to think that those who are so disinclined would be any more likely to go seek help at a men's centre?
I agree, milo204.
This could be a really great thing for the students at SFU, or it could be awful. I'm not at SFU, nor do I live in the area, so I have no idea who these guys are. Based on some of the negative reactions, maybe there's some history with these guys that only those closer to the situation are aware of. I don't know. That's why I'm interested in finding out more about this before I jump to any conclusions about which students this centre will or won't serve, or whether or not this is really just a transparent, disingenous, backlashy parody of the women's centre.
kropotkin1951's comment about "having to go a drop in clinic to get mental health care" reminds me of the argument made by people who think that abstainence-based treatment programs should be sufficient for anyone dealing with addiction. That may work for lots of people, but it won't for everyone. Creating a variety of services with a variety of entry points makes it less likely that someone will slip through the cracks. Is it ultimately more important that everyone should try and make the most of whatever services are currently offered? Or is it more important that they get the help and support they need, period?
[cross-posted with 6079_Smith_W]
@ Freedom 55
Plus, while 30K is indeed a bundle of cash, it certainly isn't enough to hire a counsellor.
It does sound like a case of putting the cart before the horse. From what I've gathered, it sounds like it got approved on little more than someone thinking it would be a good idea, along with the fact that the students' union had a 200K budget surplus, and a lack of other proposals. According to Jeff McCann, they've been talking to the gender studies program and the existing counselling services on campus about how to make the centre serve the needs of the students, so that's encouraging. The 30K is conditional on them coming up with a concrete plan. Only $500 has been made available to them until they have a plan in place.
I appreciate the nuance you've introduced into this discussion, F55, and I agree that an initiative to fight stereotypical masculinity and the attendant problems and challenges could be a positive step--but I see no evidence of that happening here (and I confess my own prejudices when I say that the fact that it's an accounting student leading the charge gives me little hope). I would expect such an initiative to at least admit first and foremost that we live, in general, in a "safe space" for men--what we need is a "safe space" for challenging gender norms, which is emphatically different (as I know you know). I would also expect the petitioners for such a space to liason with the women's centre and make it clear that their project is in concert with theirs. Again, I see no evidence of this and it would be the first thing I expect.
Those are fair points, CF. I would agree that based on what I've read and heard so far, I can't say that I've heard them articulate a clear pro-feminist analysis, so I do think that skepticism is warranted. But I also recognize that people - especially people who have maybe only recently started to think about these issues - don't always know the best way to approach things, and are bound to make mistakes as they continue the process of figuring this shit out.
In his interview on The Current, McCann did specifically identify the women's centre as one of the stakeholders that they want to consult in order to help them develop their programming and space.
Maybe I'm being naïve in giving these guys the benefit of the doubt (for now), but they strike me as sincere, albeit somewhat clumsy in their efforts so far.
I don't know how easy it is to find counselling services that are both appropriate and affordable in Greater Vancouver, but if it's anything like it is in Ottawa, then I'm predisposed to support efforts to increase their availability. That's why I want to be careful not to prematurely dismiss this as a project that benefits only men (or only white men), to the detriment of women.
re: Midgley being an accounting student... One of the main arguments being made against the centre (although not in this thread) is that it's not "fiscally responsible". Is everyone at SFU an accounting student?
First of all SFU is just up the mountain from my home and I was familiar with the student politics but will admit I did not follow this years election. I think that this highlights what kind of government you can get when only 11% of eligible voters bother to vote. This is the student union not the provincial government. $30, 000 is the same funding as the women's centre. No I am not willing to give these guys the benefit of the doubt. They were not the progressives running and I am not sure but I don't even think they ran on spending that kind of money on a men's drop in centre. If they had maybe 20% of the students would have voted and they would not be playing their frat boy games with student resources.
I am not insensitive to student mental health issues I just happen to know that the services at SFU are way better for young men than anywhere else in our society.
http://students.sfu.ca/health/counselling/services.html
Hi all -
In context of the "benefit of the doubt" that we may or may not wish to give to the men on the SFSS board of directors who have voted to allocate up to $30k for mens' centre, I would like to draw your attention back to the rather brutal lockout of staff that many of the same executives engaged in last summer.
In the context of wanting to cut back on a budget that then apparently had no money, the Board of Directors, led by McCann (Midgley and others were members) locked out the staff of the student society, arguing that much of the work done was overpaid and was not good value for money. Importantly, they locked out the women's centre, arguing that the work that the Centre staff did was of no real consequence - they and supporters argued that all the women's centre did was refer students to other service providers, and so on and so on.
Additionally, the Board of Directors pressured staff through attrition to eventually accept a collective agreement that would provide for up to 50% wage cuts for new employees.
Now, they suddenly have more than $30k to spend on a Men's Centre? Will it be just as inconsequential as the Women's Centre?
I have a long history with the organization in question, but I give no benefit of the doubt in this situation.
That does provide a good bit of background. Thanks.
It's still not clear to me that these are "frat boy games", but then, I'm sure you're more familiar with SFU student politics than I am. But you're right, it doesn't sound like they campaigned on the idea of opening a men's centre. As I said upthread, the proposal seems to only have come about as a result of a $200K budget surplus. Maybe there could have been better uses for that surplus, but it doesn't sound like there was much in the way of other proposals. Did the women's centre ask for more funding, and get turned down in favour of the men's centre? Nothing I've read or heard suggests that was the case.
That's good to know. Too often those services are severely underresourced. Sounds like their plan for co-operation with HCS is a step in the right direction.
Freedom55: the Women's Centre budget was cut, as was their staff support allocation, in the previous budgeting round when the Board of Directors locked out the staff and forced them to accept an up-to 50% wage cut for new employees. The lockout and budget cuts were justified in the context of "too little money."
Now they have money to throw about like this.
Thanks for this background, Kevin. Much appreciated.
@kevinharding
Thanks for that reminder, and adding that for context. I created that thread last summer by posting your article. But not keeping up with SFU politics on a regular basis I didn't recognize that these were the same guys behind the lock-out. In light of that, yeah, it doesn't seem likely that anything good is going to come out of this men's centre.
That said, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with a space designed to provide services specifically for men. But it doesn't sound like this project's coming from the right place by the right people.